The solution of all Ares-I problems: the "J-2Y" engine

The solution of all Ares-I problems: the "J-2Y" engine

full article: http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles...perengine.html

main image: http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4...renginekd1.jpg

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On 7 Sep, 02:59, gaetanomarano wrote:
The solution of all Ares-I problems: the "J-2Y" engine

full article:http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles...perengine.html

main image:http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4...renginekd1.jpg

.

Just one point. Are the Saturn C5 drawings still in existence? Why not
build a Saturn and possibly shave a little weight off with more modern
materials?

- Ian Parker

"Ian Parker" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 7 Sep, 02:59, gaetanomarano wrote:
The solution of all Ares-I problems: the "J-2Y" engine

full article:http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles...perengine.html

main image:http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4...renginekd1.jpg

.

Just one point. Are the Saturn C5 drawings still in existence? Why not
build a Saturn and possibly shave a little weight off with more modern
materials?

Yes, the plans are.

Why not re-use them... several reasons, some practical some just plain
"that's old, we need something new".



- Ian Parker




--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting Remote and Onsite available!
Email: sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com/sqlserver.html

Ian Parker wrote:

:
:Just one point. Are the Saturn C5 drawings still in existence? Why not
:build a Saturn and possibly shave a little weight off with more modern
:materials?
:

Because it would cost just as much as starting from scratch to build
one, since none of the parts used are manufactured anymore. You'd
have to requalify EVERYTHING.


--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
Ian Parker wrote:

:
:Just one point. Are the Saturn C5 drawings still in existence? Why not
:build a Saturn and possibly shave a little weight off with more modern
:materials?
:

Because it would cost just as much as starting from scratch to build
one, since none of the parts used are manufactured anymore. You'd
have to requalify EVERYTHING.

And things like electronics would likely need upgraded anyway. I'd guess
there were some electronics components in the Saturn V that you'd have a
hard time finding today, except as old electronics surplus sitting on a
dusty shelf somewhere.

Once you start down the slippery slopes of upgrades, with NASA running the
program, it would evolve much like Ares I/V have evolved over time. In
other words, the new Saturn V would eventually have little in common with
the old one.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

"Jeff Findley" wrote:

:
:Once you start down the slippery slopes of upgrades, with NASA running the
rogram, it would evolve much like Ares I/V have evolved over time. In
ther words, the new Saturn V would eventually have little in common with
:the old one.
:

Given NASA lately, I'd bet the first thing they'd do is put some solid
rockets on it someplace...


--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden

Fred J. McCall writes:

"Jeff Findley" wrote:

:Once you start down the slippery slopes of upgrades, with NASA running the
rogram, it would evolve much like Ares I/V have evolved over time. In
ther words, the new Saturn V would eventually have little in common with
:the old one.

Given NASA lately, I'd bet the first thing they'd do is put some solid
rockets on it someplace...

Have you ever taken a 1/144 model of the Saturn V and fixed to
its sides the Solid Rocket Boosters of a 1/144 Space Shuttle kit? The
result, speaking modestly, rules.

Four may be a bit much, but two makes the Chrysler Building of
rockets.

--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Jeff Findley" wrote:
And things like electronics would likely need upgraded anyway. I'd guess
there were some electronics components in the Saturn V that you'd have a
hard time finding today, except as old electronics surplus sitting on a
dusty shelf somewhere.

It's more than that Jeff. There are things in the IU that take up
whole huge boxes that could be fit on a couple of PCBs today. It
would be massively stupid to retain the IU, even with the boxes
replaced individually by their modern functional equivalents.

Henry has stated, and I agree, that a 'modern' SV would likely discard
the IU entirely, replacing it with a couple of cubic feet of
electronics tucked in beside the S-IVB tank dome.

(And absolutely guaranteed that no matter what course NASA chose,
they'd be crucified on these groups for it.)

Once you start down the slippery slopes of upgrades, with NASA running the
program, it would evolve much like Ares I/V have evolved over time. In
other words, the new Saturn V would eventually have little in common with
the old one.

Some of that is excessive NASA meddling, some of it is also sheer raw
reality. Even without NASA in charge, the design is going to change
to some degree as you move from BOTE/Proposal stage paper engineering
through design development and move towards actually bending metal.
It's the nature of the beast.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/

-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL

"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
...
"Jeff Findley" wrote:

:
:Once you start down the slippery slopes of upgrades, with NASA running
the
rogram, it would evolve much like Ares I/V have evolved over time. In
ther words, the new Saturn V would eventually have little in common with
:the old one.
:

Given NASA lately, I'd bet the first thing they'd do is put some solid
rockets on it someplace...

Let's see, four Shuttle SRB's strapped to the Saturn V first stage gives...

Actually, some solids on the thing might make it clear the pad faster. ;-)

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)

"Derek Lyons" wrote in message
...
Some of that is excessive NASA meddling, some of it is also sheer raw
reality. Even without NASA in charge, the design is going to change
to some degree as you move from BOTE/Proposal stage paper engineering
through design development and move towards actually bending metal.
It's the nature of the beast.

Yea, but sometimes you have to stop and ask yourself if you've violated some
of your base assumptions that made you go with that particular proposal as
opposed to some of the other proposals. I think we've done that with Ares I
for sure. The move to a five segment SRB and the switch from an air started
SSME to the J-2S violated two of those base assumptions.

Jeff
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety"
- B. Franklin, Bartlett's Familiar Quotations (1919)