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LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 18th 12, 07:18 AM posted to sci.astro.research
Robert L. Oldershaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Jun 17, 10:04*am, Phillip Helbig---undress to reply
wrote:

It is an X-ray telescope. *It can observe anything which is sufficiently
bright in the wavelengths it is sensitive to.

[Mod. note: and so the question is: how would isolated primordial
black holes produce X-rays? -- mjh]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Accreting black holes will emit X-rays.

Even isolated black holes will accrete interstellar gas and dust.

Isolated black holes may be commonly found inside interstellar gas/
dust clouds, as are young stellar objects.

There is published literature on all of these facts by professional
astrophysicists in the ApJ.

[Mod. note: everyone agrees on point 1; give references for points 2
and 3, please -- mjh]

A major part of NuSTAR's mission is to learn about the abundance and
distribution of black holes in our Galaxy.

Robert L. Oldershaw
http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw
  #22  
Old June 18th 12, 07:19 AM posted to sci.astro.research
Richard D. Saam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 240
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On 6/17/12 6:46 AM, Robert L. Oldershaw wrote:

Let's see the observational results, due in 1-6 months if all goes
well, and then have an intelligent and objective discussion about
their implications.

RLO
http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw


In the context that Ackermann's presentation
www-conf.slac.stanford.edu/tevpa09/Ackermann090714v2.ppt
and particulary slide:
SED of the isotropic diffuse emission (1 keV - 100 GeV)

it can not be ruled out that NUSTAR X-Ray detection
in the range (6 - 79 keV) or (.006 - .079 MeV)
may contribute to further understanding of the isotropic diffuse
emission. The previous error bars in this range do not appear
substantial but could be further minimized.
It would be nice to reduce the large error bars
in the 1 - 100 MeV range previously observed by Comptel.
Fermi isotropic emission continues analysis at higher energies.

I assume that the observed isotropic diffuse emission
is truly diffuse and not due to individual or grouped point sources.

Richard D Saam
  #23  
Old June 18th 12, 05:38 PM posted to sci.astro.research
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Monday, June 18, 2012 2:19:26 AM UTC-4, Richard D. Saam wrote:
On 6/17/12 6:46 AM, Robert L. Oldershaw wrote:

Let's see the observational results, due in 1-6 months if all goes
well, and then have an intelligent and objective discussion about
their implications.

.....
I assume that the observed isotropic diffuse emission
is truly diffuse and not due to individual or grouped point sources.


Actually, this is still a matter of some scientific debate. As better telescopes have become available, more and more of the "diffuse" X-ray emission has been resolved into individual point sources. NuSTAR will definitely play a role in resolving more of the cosmic hard X-ray background into point sources.

But these point sources are still very luminous (10^40 - 10^49 erg/s). They are active galactic nuclei and not stellar mass black holes (primordial or otherwise), which because of the Eddington limit could never radiate at those luminosities.

CM
  #24  
Old June 18th 12, 05:39 PM posted to sci.astro.research
Robert L. Oldershaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Jun 18, 2:18*am, "Robert L. Oldershaw"
wrote:
On Jun 17, 10:04 am, Phillip Helbig---undress to wrote:

It is an X-ray telescope. It can observe anything which is sufficiently
bright in the wavelengths it is sensitive to.


[Mod. note: and so the question is: how would isolated primordial
black holes produce X-rays? -- mjh]


---------------------------------------------------------------------------*---------------------

Accreting black holes will emit X-rays.

Even isolated black holes will accrete interstellar gas and dust.

Isolated black holes may be commonly found inside interstellar gas/
dust clouds, as are young stellar objects.

There is published literature on all of these facts by professional
astrophysicists in the ApJ.

[Mod. note: everyone agrees on point 1; give references for points 2
and 3, please -- mjh]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Point 2: If you carefully read ApJ 322, 34-36, 1987, you will
encounter a discussion of accretion of interstellar gas/dust onto
black holes in the disk and halo of the Galaxy, and the expected X-ray
output from this phenomena.

Also, you will find quantitative predictions of the X-ray luminousity
generated by the fundamental stellar-mass Kerr-Newman objects
predicted by Discrete Scale Relativity to comprise the galactic dark
matter.

Point 3: There are a lot of interesting phenomena going on inside
interstellar gas/dust clouds, including star system formation and
sources with energetic jets.

I do not know offhand of papers that report the presence of black
holes in these gas/dust clouds, but if BHs are ubiquitous, or even
just present at the conventionally assumed level, they will be found
in interstellar gas/dust clouds. Why would they be excluded?

NuSTAR will have a resolution that is a factor of 10 better than
anything previous, and an improvement of sensitivity of a factor of
100. There is the reasonable hope that NuSTAR can properly canvas the
galactic stellar-mass BH population for the first time in scientific
history.

Why the negativity? Maybe we should just let nature do the talking.

Robert L. Oldershaw
http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw
Discrete Scale Relativity
  #25  
Old June 19th 12, 07:56 AM posted to sci.astro.research
Eric Gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,465
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Jun 18, 11:39*am, "Robert L. Oldershaw"
wrote:
On Jun 18, 2:18 am, "Robert L. Oldershaw"
wrote:







On Jun 17, 10:04 am, Phillip Helbig---undress to wrote:


It is an X-ray telescope. It can observe anything which is sufficiently
bright in the wavelengths it is sensitive to.


[Mod. note: and so the question is: how would isolated primordial
black holes produce X-rays? -- mjh]


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Accreting black holes will emit X-rays.


Even isolated black holes will accrete interstellar gas and dust.


Isolated black holes may be commonly found inside interstellar gas/
dust clouds, as are young stellar objects.


There is published literature on all of these facts by professional
astrophysicists in the ApJ.


[Mod. note: everyone agrees on point 1; give references for points 2
and 3, please -- mjh]


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Point 2: If you carefully read ApJ 322, 34-36, 1987, you will
encounter a discussion of accretion of interstellar gas/dust onto
black holes in the disk and halo of the Galaxy, and the expected X-ray
output from this phenomena.


You will also encounter many falsified predictions. For example (from
memory): electron substructure, x-ray luminosity of your compact
objects, and every detail related to gravitational microlensing. I
will note that you cite the same resources folks have been citing for
20+ years WRT microlensing but you still dismiss falsifications as
shoddy science so it is a little bit hard to take your citations
seriously.


Also, you will find quantitative predictions of the X-ray luminousity
generated by the fundamental stellar-mass Kerr-Newman objects
predicted by Discrete Scale Relativity to comprise the galactic dark
matter.


Yeah, and they are wrong even through several generations of x-ray
satellite observatories.


Point 3: There are a lot of interesting phenomena going on inside
interstellar gas/dust clouds, including star system formation and
sources with energetic jets.


True, but none that are relevant to your claims.


I do not know offhand of papers that report the presence of black
holes in these gas/dust clouds,


That's because there are none. But it pleases me to see that you still
refuse to do literature searches.

but if BHs are ubiquitous, or even
just present at the conventionally assumed level, they will be found
in interstellar gas/dust clouds. *Why would they be excluded?


Because they don't exist. Your own argument disproves your thesis
because the required black hole density to explain dark matter would
put a sizable bloc of them in star forming regions in which they will
accrete and radiate. This is not seen, and you cannot name a single
example that proves otherwise.

Of course there's also the microlensing observations with also falsify
the 'black hole as dark matter' theory rather soundly but that message
does not appear to have made it to you.


NuSTAR will have a resolution that is a factor of 10 better than
anything previous, and an improvement of sensitivity of a factor of
100. *There is the reasonable hope that NuSTAR can properly canvas the
galactic stellar-mass BH population for the first time in scientific
history.


I like your transition from primordial black holes to stellar mass
black holes. It'd help your agenda if you were consistent.

Nobody thinks, in 2012, that stellar mass black holes do not exist for
that is a silly position to take.

But on the flip side, nobody (except you, apparently) thinks that
there is a credible volume of primordial black holes at this point in
time.

Further, stellar mass black holes have been conclusively eliminated as
a dark matter candidate. Primordial black holes have _nearly_ been
eliminated, and we've discussed this before. Apparently you forgot, or
were simply not listening.


Why the negativity? *Maybe we should just let nature do the talking.


We'll stop being negative roughly around the time you stop
disregarding evidence that does not agree with your belief system.


Robert L. Oldershawhttp://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw
Discrete Scale Relativity

  #26  
Old June 19th 12, 08:02 AM posted to sci.astro.research
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Monday, June 18, 2012 12:39:40 PM UTC-4, Robert L. Oldershaw wrote:
Point 2: If you carefully read ApJ 322, 34-36, 1987, you will
encounter a discussion of accretion of interstellar gas/dust onto
black holes in the disk and halo of the Galaxy, and the expected X-ray
output from this phenomena.

Also, you will find quantitative predictions of the X-ray luminousity
generated by the fundamental stellar-mass Kerr-Newman objects
predicted by Discrete Scale Relativity to comprise the galactic dark
matter.


Actually, none of what you *claim* is in the cited paper is actually
*in* the paper. The paper you cite does not discuss accretion, gas nor
dust; nor much really about black holes. It does claim the presence of
0.145 M_sun compact objects in the galaxy, with luminosities of
10^{29} erg/s, but only by reference to another paper in a journal
that is now not commonly available to researchers.

But let's evaluate the claim of compact objects having X-ray
luminosities 10^{29} erg/s. Bodies of that luminosity within 2 kpc of
the sun will emit fluxes of about 2e-16 erg/s/cm^2. NuSTAR would
require 166 *YEARS* of integrated exposure to detect such a source.
This conclusion is approximately independent of the spectral shape of
the source: I tried Crab-like and thermal kT=5 keV.

In other words, there is no way that NuSTAR will detect the claimed
compact objects, even if they were a factor of 10 - 100 brighter.

Furthermore, there have been plenty of surveys more sensitive than
NuSTAR in different X-ray bands (Chandra, XMM-Newton, ASCA, etc). What
is so special about NuSTAR that you would claim it would detect
"primordial" black holes, without also consulting those other surveys?

NuSTAR *will* detect a lot of accreting black holes in our galaxy and
in external galaxies, but there's no evidence they will be primordial.

Why the negativity? Maybe we should just let nature do the talking.


Indeed. But you were the one who made an apparently unsubstantiated
claim, presumably to pump up your own theory. Anybody can check the
feasibility of detecting an X-ray emitting object with any of the
X-ray observatories; just Google for WebPIMMS. Why didn't you do this
before you made your claim?

There is a difference being pessimistic and calling someone out on
sloppy work.
  #27  
Old June 19th 12, 03:37 PM posted to sci.astro.research
Robert L. Oldershaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 617
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Jun 19, 3:02*am, "
wrote:

There is a difference being pessimistic and calling someone out on
sloppy work.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for your kind and thoughtful comments.

NuSTAR starts scientific observations in less than a month.

There have been more negative "WIMP" results since 6/4/12, but what is
the point of beating a dead horse?

Robert L. Oldershaw
http://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw
Discrete Scale Relativity
Fractal Cosmology
  #28  
Old June 19th 12, 06:52 PM posted to sci.astro.research
Richard D. Saam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 240
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On 6/18/12 11:38 AM, wrote:

Actually, this is still a matter of some scientific debate. As
better telescopes have become available, more and more of the
"diffuse" X-ray emission has been resolved into individual point
sources. NuSTAR will definitely play a role in resolving more of the
cosmic hard X-ray background into point sources.


But these point sources are still very luminous (10^40 - 10^49
erg/s). They are active galactic nuclei and not stellar mass black
holes (primordial or otherwise), which because of the Eddington
limit could never radiate at those luminosities.


I will entertain the opposing hypothesis in this scientific debate:
As better telescopes become available,
the more and more resolved individual point sources
will not account for the observed "diffuse" X-ray emission
concluding that the diffuse emissions are primordial in origin
similar to CMBR.

RDS

[Mod. note: this 'opposing hypothesis' is conclusively falsified by
observation. See e.g. the analysis of Hickox & Markevitch
(
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007ApJ...661L.117H) who show that,
after excluding all sources resolved by Chandra, together with the
contribution from individually undetected optical/IR sources, from the
deepest X-ray fields, the remaining soft X-ray background is
consistent with zero -- there is no diffuse X-ray background left.
-- mjh]
  #29  
Old June 20th 12, 07:14 AM posted to sci.astro.research
Eric Gisse
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,465
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Jun 19, 9:37*am, "Robert L. Oldershaw"
wrote:
On Jun 19, 3:02 am, ...@gmail. com wrote:

There is a difference being pessimistic and calling someone out on
sloppy work.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for your kind and thoughtful comments.


I note that you have not addressed any one of them.


NuSTAR starts scientific observations in less than a month.


Kepler has been producing data for awhile now. When are you going to
look at it?

How about the OGLE and various other microlensing collaborations?

Do you have a value for the integrated x-ray background you would
expect from your numerology?


There have been more negative "WIMP" results since 6/4/12, but what is
the point of beating a dead horse?


Yes, what is the point? You have been told time and again that the
WIMP theory of dark matter is one among several, whose existence or
lack thereof does not impact the observations that require dark matter
in any way shape or form.

Your numerology does not become more attractive just because you post
a few more times on USENET. Where are your peer reviewed publications
on the subject?


Robert L. Oldershawhttp://www3.amherst.edu/~rloldershaw
Discrete Scale Relativity
Fractal Cosmology

  #30  
Old June 20th 12, 07:15 AM posted to sci.astro.research
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 39
Default LHC: "WIMPs" Not Observed (6/4/12)

On Tuesday, June 19, 2012 10:37:07 AM UTC-4, Robert L. Oldershaw wrote:
On Jun 19, 3:02*am, "
wrote:

There is a difference being pessimistic and calling someone out on
sloppy work.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you all for your kind and thoughtful comments.

NuSTAR starts scientific observations in less than a month.

There have been more negative "WIMP" results since 6/4/12, but what is
the point of beating a dead horse?


What's up with the passive-aggressive behavior? You raised the claim, and continue to bring up additional information, so it's not clear who you think is beating dead horses.

So are you still claiming that NuSTAR will detect "primordial" black holes?

How exactly will NuSTAR detect objects with luminosity 10^{29} erg/s? (if that indeed is your claimed luminosity for these objects)

Why didn't these objects show up in more sensitive surveys by other X-ray observatories like Chandra or XMM-Newton?

CM
 




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