How to take a "free" ET to orbit.

Free as in a net zero cost to NASA after it's all said and done.

1. Important to recover all the residual LOX and LH2, quite a bit of LOX/LH2
gets thrown away every mission. Unusables, Flight Performance Reserves,
Fuel bias, unused margin and gaseous "ullage" pressurants.

1.1 This means keeping the ET attached to the Shuttle until all the extra
LOX and LH2 can be sucked back into the ET and stabilized.

2. NASA would have to accept payment in terms of delta-V of the Space
Station, or water (H2, O2, or H2O) as payment to zero the cost.

3. Sources of Delta-V

3.1 The SOFI is going to have to be removed on-orbit. May as well throw it
away very fast and supply Delta-V with the Mass.

3.2 Fuel bias, that too can be thrown away, very fast to supply Delta-V

3.2.1 Can I hook a line up the the Space Station Hydrogen dump port? I'd
like to sell NASA some additional delta-V.

4. Pre-Launch modification to the ET.

4.1 Valved access line to the Hydrogen/Oxygen tanks in the intertank area
between the two tanks.

4.2 Addition of benign hardware in the intertank. Benign in that it does
nothing prelaunch through MECO. NASA controlled "on/off" button.

4.3 Addition of radiator panel on the exterior of the External Tank
intertank, opposite side of Orbiter. Ideally, this could use the intertank
wall as the radiator. So, really only addition are the internal thermally
connected pipes on the inside of ...

4.4 Would be nice, but not necessary, for a electrical power connection from
Orbiter Fuel Cells to ET tank intertank area. That way all excess Orbiter
Power can run the pumps to stabilize LOX and LH2 on the way to the Space
Station.

5.0 Rendezvous modifications, the simplest would be to fly up to the Station
and grab the Station or Orbiter with one of the arms. Then very slowly
maneuver the Orbiter/ET to the docking port. Maybe a small bump with the
RCS might be required for final docking. Getting within an arm's reach of
the Station should be doable.

I think a lot of people enjoyed NASA impromptu solar array repair, it would
be good for NASA to practice more impromptu type things. Taking an ET to
the Station would be a great impromptu exercise to prepare for Lunar and
Mars exploration. NASA seems to have become to reliant on studies and
choreographed everything.

I wonder what NASA charges for renting an Astronaut or two for a few days
along with a couple of Space Walks. The ET Hydrogen Tank access door is
going to have to be removed and an ET docking adapter will have to be
installed to use the Hydrogen tank pressurized tank volume.

Can I have my free ET yet, for zero net cost to NASA? I'd like to start
modify my ET as soon as possible.

TANSTAAFL, how to pay for the non-NASA new hardware? Any ideas, capitalist
and free-market ideas? IPO? I sure hope America wakes up to a change in
direction and Ron Paul is our next President. Taking an ET to the Space
Station would be soo much fun.

Anybody want to be part owners of an ET at the Space Station?

At 50,000 lbs time 20,000 $/lbs equals $1 Billion dollars of real estate at
the Space Station. I would think the non-NASA new hardware could be
developed with some sort of venture capital IPO auction stock offering to
raise a Billion or two. The revenue streams to the company, volume rental,
LOX recovery and storage facility, LH2 recovery and storage facility, LOX
to sell, LH2 to sell, delta-V to sell, ground floor investment in a LEO
futures market, ... Profits could be huge.

Anybody else want to turn a Dream into Reality?

Voting for Ron Paul, is voting for Free Markets in Space, let the Space
rEVOLution begin. ;-)
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

Jeff Findley wrote:

Nope. *The way Griffin is running NASA, there won't be any money for any
of this. *Griffin considers ISS a distraction and won't want to spend any
money on anything new for ISS.


The Free ET is doable in the two to three year time frame. I still want my
free ET, to open up a Laundry Mat business.

But, you might be right, Griffin has no vision of the future of man manned
space flight. He really shouldn't be the NASA administrator if he has no
vision or dreams of the future. Griffin is most definitely looking to the
past with the Apollo on Steroids program that he proposes for the next 30
years. Nothing new there.

NASA really has to make a commitment to manned space flight in LEO, a
commitment to develop a free market economy in LEO. A commitment that will
bring the confidence to the market so that investors will be willing to
risk their money to make the profits that will make manned space flight and
the exploration of the Moon and Mars cheaper.

A commitment to use my Coin Operated Laundry Mat to wash the Space Station's
Astronauts and Cosmonauts clothes. That might be one of the first money
making businesses inside the ET at the Space Station. They must get pretty
rank by now, not being able to wash their clothes. Of course, the
astronauts are going to have to get some "Ron Paul" $1000 gold coins to
operate the washing machine with. But it seems the Federal government
already has a lot of those right now, it shouldn't be a problem for them to
come up with the change to operate the machines.

But until NASA is willing to make a commitment, a commitment to give the
Astronauts clean clothes, I really see no need in working on a LEO Laundry
Mat business.
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

.... would be great.

There are many ways to raise money, people what to invest in something that
they see can make money. For a billionaire it takes one persons decision to
do something, yes it's easier. Or, a billion people with one dollar each,
much harder. To me, NASA current concept of how private industry is going
to help them, seems to be like another revenue stream into an endless pit.
Or, a technology mining operation through contests effort.

How about the "Do something with this ET contest?"

NASA PR guy holds up photograph of Space Station with one ET attached, and
announces

"Winner gets to keep this ET, with ten more contests to follow."

NASA PR guy holds up artist drawing of the Space Station with 11 ETs
attached

"So, if you don't win the first ET, keep working on whatever you want, maybe
you'll win the next."

That sounds like a fun contest, and cost NASA next to nothing. Just attach
the next ET to the Space Station, then Start the Contest. If people see a
real ET attached to the Space Station... investors will be willing to
invest.

You talk about NASA engineers, so your talking about me, I'm the one who did
part of the study back when Reagan made the offer. The GN&C performance
part, I went about my part of the study trying the best I could to make it
work. The conclusion of my part was that, yes it could be taken to orbit at
no performance cost. It's just a question of how high, and after that what
addition fuel to deliver it higher. Sure you can take it a drop it in orbit
at no performance cost, better to take it higher, and today it's even
better to take it to the Space Station. I don't know what other NASA
engineers did wrt the studies, but I do know attitude is important and the
assumptions made can easily make or break any idea.

The sooner we get a LEO free market, the sooner travel to LEO will get
cheaper. Adding a Bigelow Hotel, would be great, adding all the External
Tanks would be great, I would love to see the Space Station grow into an
international town or city in space. A 50,000 lbs chunk of aluminum has
value if you can figure out how to use it. Ten tanks, or 500,000 lbs of
aluminum, ten times the value. Simply being in orbit makes it worth much
more than sitting on the ground,...

LOX and LH2, is a much better way to store the stuff on-orbit. It is simply
a marketable product, for a LEO market place.... I'll throw the LH2 out the
Incinerator Rocket Engine if I get too much. NASA should be in the market
for delta-V applied to the Space Station. I'd like a commitment by NASA to
buy delta-V applied to the Space Station. Then I might pursue the
Incinerator Rocket Engine past the concepts phase. A commitment that
investors will believe.

I'd really like to get into manufacturing in space, so, the first thing
necessary is raw material in LEO. Recycling everything would be a great
source of raw materials. An Incinerator Rocket Engine, would be a great
first step to building recycling center.

Man, this is a long rambling piece of....posting, I'll try to do better with
the next one...oh yeah...Ron Paul...

I'm going to vote for Ron Paul, hopefully he will Privatize much of NASA.
I'm tired of wasting my money on NASA manned space flight. One self
perpetuating, self serving, retirement program called Apollo on steroids, a
money pit. This current plan sucks.

I hope NASA wakes up and figures out that it is in our National Interests to
have a thriving LEO Manned "free" Market. Wakes up and figures out how to
make the Exploration of the Moon and Mars support a LEO market place, then
the LEO market place will support the exploration of the Moon and Mars. It
works both ways.

Wake up America, Vote for Ron Paul, for free markets in LEO, and the Space
rEVOLution will begin...

--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @
--

Jeff Findley wrote:


"Craig Fink" wrote in message
...

Solar panels, probably a good idea to have some minimal amount, maybe on
the
docking adaptor to attach the ET it to the Space Station. The ET won't be
doing any free maneuvering so doesn't require attitude control and all
that
stuff. Just one slightly steerable Incinerator Rocket Engine. That could
on
the Docking adapter also.

Except for the rather benign intertank LOX/LH2 recovery and storage
equipment, all the other stuff should initially be part of the docking
adaptor. Nothing is added to the tanks exterior, well, maybe some
shielding
at some future point.

Now you're just sounding like the ET station kooks who all thought this
would be "easy" to do. It's not. It's hideously expensive to do, and
NASA will flat out tell your potential investors that, even if you could
somehow get the administration to force NASA into agreeing to let you dock
such a
monstrosity to ISS. End result is that you'll find there is zero interest
in this scheme which translates into zero dollars.

If you were an eccentric multi-billionare, you might have a chance in hell
of getting this to work, but you're not, so your chance of getting this to
work is absolutely zero.

Your getting way too far down the road, initially it's just a LOX/LH2
storage facility with about 5000 pounds of residual LOX and LH2, empty
temperature controlled volume (hydrogen tank) of real estate. Attaching
the
docking adaptor is the only thing that would have to be done outside and
in
a space suit. Once that is done, it can be docked, and everything done in
shirt sleeves.

That LOX/LH2 won't stay in the tank. Even if the SOFI would stay on the
tank (it won't), it won't keep the tank insulated enough to keep your LOX
and LH2 cold. You'd need an active cooling system. Such a thing does not
exist as space certified hardware. The reality is that the SOFI will
either
popcorn off or you'll have to remove it. Once you do that, even active
cooling won't be enough to store LOX and LH2 in the bare aluminum tank.

This whole scheme to somehow sell NASA LOX and LH2 is ill concieved. NASA
has gasseous O2 and N2 tanks on the US airlock module. NASA has no use
for the LH2 at ISS.

One Billion Dollar Tank for free, what a deal. All I need is a billion
dollars of investment to start making a profit.

Yea, right. Good luck with that. NASA engineers will tell all your
potential private investors that they think your scheme is crazy and would
cost multi-billions of dollars and many years to develop all of the
techniques and hardware to even attempt this scheme.

Are you a NASA engineer, past, present or future?

NASA really has been an anchor wrt private investment in Manned....

What negative thought you have....

****ing on dreams....