RC Rocketry - Ready to Fly to Orbit

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 9:38:40 AM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:


Words have meaning. You either use them sensibly or you do not.


Precisely right.

Yes.

But then you're going to go off and defend using
them wrong.

No I don't. Let me give you another precisely right comment.

You use words, or words use you. You are letting words use you if you take an arcane definition and use it to argue that debts held by public entities are not public debts because of that definition.

That's precisely what you're doing all in the service of trying to call someone stupid.

A pretty useless exercise if you ask me.

snip

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 9:41:08 AM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 12:57:03 AM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:


People either create useful stuff or they do not. I create useful things. You do not.


As usual, Mookie is delusional.


As usual you are making totally meaningless statements and believe you are saying something important.


Nope. I'm merely pointing out

You are asserting things - you are not making a rational statement proving them or supporting them in any way, other than calling names over and over and over again. A technique favoured by propagandists of all ages.

that your original statement is
delusional. It is counterfactual. It is false. It is not in precise
1:1 accord with anyone's current reality but yours.

yawn See? You make a lot of assertions. You provide not one actual datum in support of any of them.

Just what "useful things" do you create, Mookie? Oh, that's right. I
forgot. It's a secret...

Some are certainly. Most are not. As for those, anyone who is interested can read my patents, the invention of computer based cash registers for example, or golf balls that change colours, or advanced solar panels that produce hydrogen directly from water and sunlight. You can read he news articles about my ventures, such as coal bed methane projects in Indonesia. You can read my articles in the professional journals or watch my interviews on television news programs around the world.

You on the other hand, apparently produce only nasty derisive commentary on usenet and not much else.




--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 at 11:01:16 PM UTC-5, William Mook wrote:
A 48 micron thick of Aluminum/Magnesium alloy formed into a miniature External Tank that's 51 mm in diameter and 283 mm long that carries 24.85 grams of LH2 and 136.75 grams of LOX - a total of 161.52 grams of propellant carried in a 5.81 gram tank system.

http://www.keytometals.com/Article74.htm

http://3dprintingindustry.com/aerospace/

This is 1/3 the thickness of soda can material made of slightly lighter materials.

The thruster is a MEMS bipropellant rocket with a 425 second Isp. A 2.5 Newton rocket array masses 260 milligrams and covers 7.23 sq mm area. This produces 1.54 gees at lift-off

http://cap.ee.ic.ac.uk/~pdm97/powerm...53_Epstein.pdf
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0105/17trwmems/

The 1080i HDTV camera, laser and radio link, inertial guidance, and control system mass 14 grams and is powered by hydrogen and oxygen vented from the propellant system.

A two kilowatt propellant management and deep space communications system that is comprised of a 1 kW electrolysis unit and a 1 kW MEMS based cryocooler, electrolyzes 225 ml of water into 24.85 grams of LH2 and 136.75 grams of LOX in less than 1 hour. The system holds 1 litre of DI water and can fuel three vehicles in three hours and put them on hold for up to 24 hours and automatically launch them when desired over that period.

The entire system is controlled through a downloadable app from your iPhone6 which streams data from the launch unit via bluetooth and the unit streams from the vehicles via bluetooth when within 100 meters and via laser link at larger distances, including line of sight distances reaching into interplanetary space up to 1 Gbit/sec.

http://www.space.com/22680-nasa-luna...fographic.html

Three boosters may be launched individually or operated as a single clustered unit. The clustered unit may orbit a 35 gram satellite that carries a solar powered ion engine array capable of flying beyond Earth orbit to the Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury, or the Asteroid belt.

http://scmero.ulb.ac.be/project.php?..._membrane.html
http://lmts.epfl.ch/MEMS-ion-source

These units are available from Coeus Limited of NZ. Interested parties may reply to

Prices for ready to fly systems that run on Water and AC mains range $225,000 and up.

According to my friend, Max Keiser, Google is offering $20 million to any private team that can land on the moon before 2017

@StartJOIN startjo.in/maxkeiser

This gives me 690 days to complete this project.

A lander and kick stage can be built for $3 million using RocketLab's high-density monopropellant in combination with micro-scale rocket array.

A modulated laser beam communicates with the largely autonomous device periodically will be adequate for control and confirmation of the completion of the mission, sufficient to collect the $20 million offered.

I will spend $1 million every 180 days and complete the lander, kick stage and ground control in 540 days. I will launch the lander into LEO using an Electron launcher for an additional $5 million.

I will carry out the mission over a four day period. I collect $20 million within 90 days.

The payload, the lander and kick stage, consists of a quadrotor like airframe to which is attached four microrocket arrays fed by eight tanks.

RocketLab's high density monopropellant consists of hydrogen peroxide detonated by a catalyst, in combination with nanoscale graphite particles in colloidal suspension that are stable at room temperature but react with excess high temperature oxygen after the catalyst is added.

http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us...onopropellant/

The relevant equations are;

2 H2O2 → 2 H2O + O2

ΔHo of −98.2 kJ·mol−1

34.0147 g/mol

and

C + O2 → CO2

ΔHo of −394.0 kJ·mol−1

44.01 g·mol−1


So, every kilogram of hydrogen peroxide combined with 176.47 grams of carbon produces 529.41 grams of steam along with 647.05 grams of carbon-dioxide.. That's 14.7 moles of CO2 releasing ideally 5,792.72 kJ of energy along with 14.7 moles of H2O2 releasing an additional 1,443.54 kJ of energy. This is a total of 6,936.26 kJ of energy applied to 1.17647 kg of propellant. Applied with 85% efficiency in a well designed engine operating at modest pressure this implies an exhaust velocity of 3,165.89 m/sec.

A 98% concentration of hydrogen peroxide has a density of 1.42 kg/litre. Graphite has a density of 2.23 kg/litre. Thus 1 kg of H2O2 occupies 704.22 ml whilst 176.47 grams of graphite occupies 79.14 ml. A total mass of 1,176.47 grams of a colloidal mixture of nanoscale graphite particles and hydrogen peroxide occupying 783.36 ml of volume. A monopropellant with a density of 1.501 kg/litre

Now that we know the performance of the chosen propellant we start next with 150 kg on orbit above the Earth, the capacity of the Electron launcher;

http://www.rocketlabusa.com/

must increase its speed from 7.9 km/sec to 10.85 km/sec to reach the vicinity of the moon in four days. A difference of 2.95 km/sec. With an exhaust speed of 3.16 km/sec this requires

u = 1 - 1/exp(2.95/3.16) = 0.60685

propellant fraction.

Thus, 91.0263 kg of propellant are required in a 150 kg stage to achieve this.

Divided among four tanks this is 22.7565 kg per tank. Divided by 1.501 kg/litre this is 15.1609 litres per tank. A sphere 307.07 mm in diameter. A 48 micron thick layer of aluminum lithium alloy formed into a spherical tank, using a single point formation process, and welded into structural layers, covers 2,692.27 cm2 and masses 40.9 grams per layer. A total mass of 81..8 grams each tank.

http://www.keytometals.com/Article74.htm

A MEMS based monopropellant rocket array with a 140 to 1 thrust to weight, producing 40 kgf thrust each masses 285.71 grams each. One of these is attached to each tank. The four tanks with their thrusters, operate like a quad rotor as stated previously.

To land on the lunar surface at zero velocity and zero altitude, requires that 2.75 km/sec be imparted to the remaining spacecraft. After burning through 91.0263 kg of propellant the 150 kg spacecraft is reduced to 58.9737 kg. With the same 3.16 km/sec exhaust speed the landing maneuver requires a propellant fraction of;

u = 1 - 1/exp(2.75/3.16) = 0.58116

applied to the stage weight means 34.2732 kg of propellant is expended during landing. This leaves 24.7005 kg on the lunar surface.

For the landing maneuver we have four spheres that are 221.74 mm in diameter. The spheres themselves mass 35.65 grams each and each carry 8.5683 kg of propellant in 5.7084 litres of volume. Using two separate tanks for the two maneuvers assures us of start-up and running the engines in zero gee environment.

Communication is via an open optical data link involving lasers. A telescope on the ground and a telescope aboard the spacecraft point at one another and communicate via modulated laser beam when the sky is clear and the spacecraft is above the horizon. Under these conditions a gigabit data link is achieved.

The vehicle is autonomous and requires only periodic downloads of data to confirm position, status, and provide imagery taken during the flight. Controlling software may also be uploaded at these times as well.

This shows autonomous quad rotors in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM

I am of course replacing the rotors with rocket arrays propelled by Rocketlab's high-density monopropellant using MEMS based rocketry fed by integrated tank pairs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFzNMuJvBV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1cx16TBNh8

On Monday, February 9, 2015 at 4:16:12 PM UTC-5, William Mook wrote:
On Thursday, December 25, 2014 at 11:01:16 PM UTC-5, William Mook wrote:
A 48 micron thick of Aluminum/Magnesium alloy formed into a miniature External Tank that's 51 mm in diameter and 283 mm long that carries 24.85 grams of LH2 and 136.75 grams of LOX - a total of 161.52 grams of propellant carried in a 5.81 gram tank system.

http://www.keytometals.com/Article74.htm

http://3dprintingindustry.com/aerospace/

This is 1/3 the thickness of soda can material made of slightly lighter materials.

The thruster is a MEMS bipropellant rocket with a 425 second Isp. A 2.5 Newton rocket array masses 260 milligrams and covers 7.23 sq mm area. This produces 1.54 gees at lift-off

http://cap.ee.ic.ac.uk/~pdm97/powerm...53_Epstein.pdf
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0105/17trwmems/

The 1080i HDTV camera, laser and radio link, inertial guidance, and control system mass 14 grams and is powered by hydrogen and oxygen vented from the propellant system.

A two kilowatt propellant management and deep space communications system that is comprised of a 1 kW electrolysis unit and a 1 kW MEMS based cryocooler, electrolyzes 225 ml of water into 24.85 grams of LH2 and 136.75 grams of LOX in less than 1 hour. The system holds 1 litre of DI water and can fuel three vehicles in three hours and put them on hold for up to 24 hours and automatically launch them when desired over that period.

The entire system is controlled through a downloadable app from your iPhone6 which streams data from the launch unit via bluetooth and the unit streams from the vehicles via bluetooth when within 100 meters and via laser link at larger distances, including line of sight distances reaching into interplanetary space up to 1 Gbit/sec.

http://www.space.com/22680-nasa-luna...fographic.html

Three boosters may be launched individually or operated as a single clustered unit. The clustered unit may orbit a 35 gram satellite that carries a solar powered ion engine array capable of flying beyond Earth orbit to the Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury, or the Asteroid belt.

http://scmero.ulb.ac.be/project.php?..._membrane.html
http://lmts.epfl.ch/MEMS-ion-source

These units are available from Coeus Limited of NZ. Interested parties may reply to

Prices for ready to fly systems that run on Water and AC mains range $225,000 and up.

According to my friend, Max Keiser, Google is offering $20 million to any private team that can land on the moon before 2017

@StartJOIN startjo.in/maxkeiser

This gives me 690 days to complete this project.

A lander and kick stage can be built for $3 million using RocketLab's high-density monopropellant in combination with micro-scale rocket array.

A modulated laser beam communicates with the largely autonomous device periodically will be adequate for control and confirmation of the completion of the mission, sufficient to collect the $20 million offered.

I will spend $1 million every 180 days and complete the lander, kick stage and ground control in 540 days. I will launch the lander into LEO using an Electron launcher for an additional $5 million.

I will carry out the mission over a four day period. I collect $20 million within 90 days.

The payload, the lander and kick stage, consists of a quadrotor like airframe to which is attached four microrocket arrays fed by eight tanks.

RocketLab's high density monopropellant consists of hydrogen peroxide detonated by a catalyst, in combination with nanoscale graphite particles in colloidal suspension that are stable at room temperature but react with excess high temperature oxygen after the catalyst is added.

http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us...onopropellant/

The relevant equations are;

2 H2O2 → 2 H2O + O2

ΔHo of −98.2 kJ·mol−1

34.0147 g/mol

and

C + O2 → CO2

ΔHo of −394.0 kJ·mol−1

44.01 g·mol−1


So, every kilogram of hydrogen peroxide combined with 176.47 grams of carbon produces 529.41 grams of steam along with 647.05 grams of carbon-dioxide. That's 14.7 moles of CO2 releasing ideally 5,792.72 kJ of energy along with 14.7 moles of H2O2 releasing an additional 1,443.54 kJ of energy. This is a total of 6,936.26 kJ of energy applied to 1.17647 kg of propellant. Applied with 85% efficiency in a well designed engine operating at modest pressure this implies an exhaust velocity of 3,165.89 m/sec.

A 98% concentration of hydrogen peroxide has a density of 1.42 kg/litre. Graphite has a density of 2.23 kg/litre. Thus 1 kg of H2O2 occupies 704.22 ml whilst 176.47 grams of graphite occupies 79.14 ml. A total mass of 1,176.47 grams of a colloidal mixture of nanoscale graphite particles and hydrogen peroxide occupying 783.36 ml of volume. A monopropellant with a density of 1.501 kg/litre

Now that we know the performance of the chosen propellant we start next with 150 kg on orbit above the Earth, the capacity of the Electron launcher;

http://www.rocketlabusa.com/

must increase its speed from 7.9 km/sec to 10.85 km/sec to reach the vicinity of the moon in four days. A difference of 2.95 km/sec. With an exhaust speed of 3.16 km/sec this requires

u = 1 - 1/exp(2.95/3.16) = 0.60685

propellant fraction.

Thus, 91.0263 kg of propellant are required in a 150 kg stage to achieve this.

Divided among four tanks this is 22.7565 kg per tank. Divided by 1.501 kg/litre this is 15.1609 litres per tank. A sphere 307.07 mm in diameter. A 48 micron thick layer of aluminum lithium alloy formed into a spherical tank, using a single point formation process, and welded into structural layers, covers 2,692.27 cm2 and masses 40.9 grams per layer. A total mass of 81.8 grams each tank.

http://www.keytometals.com/Article74.htm

A MEMS based monopropellant rocket array with a 140 to 1 thrust to weight, producing 40 kgf thrust each masses 285.71 grams each. One of these is attached to each tank. The four tanks with their thrusters, operate like a quad rotor as stated previously.

To land on the lunar surface at zero velocity and zero altitude, requires that 2.75 km/sec be imparted to the remaining spacecraft. After burning through 91.0263 kg of propellant the 150 kg spacecraft is reduced to 58.9737 kg. With the same 3.16 km/sec exhaust speed the landing maneuver requires a propellant fraction of;

u = 1 - 1/exp(2.75/3.16) = 0.58116

applied to the stage weight means 34.2732 kg of propellant is expended during landing. This leaves 24.7005 kg on the lunar surface.

For the landing maneuver we have four spheres that are 221.74 mm in diameter. The spheres themselves mass 35.65 grams each and each carry 8.5683 kg of propellant in 5.7084 litres of volume. Using two separate tanks for the two maneuvers assures us of start-up and running the engines in zero gee environment.

Communication is via an open optical data link involving lasers. A telescope on the ground and a telescope aboard the spacecraft point at one another and communicate via modulated laser beam when the sky is clear and the spacecraft is above the horizon. Under these conditions a gigabit data link is achieved.

The vehicle is autonomous and requires only periodic downloads of data to confirm position, status, and provide imagery taken during the flight. Controlling software may also be uploaded at these times as well.

This shows autonomous quad rotors in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM

I am of course replacing the rotors with rocket arrays propelled by Rocketlab's high-density monopropellant using MEMS based rocketry fed by integrated tank pairs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFzNMuJvBV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1cx16TBNh8

http://www.nasa.gov/press/2013/octob...s-to-and-from/

In 2010 the closing date was extended to Dec 31, 2015.

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/overview

And I've entered the fray

http://firstlunar.com

https://www.startjoin.com/FirstLuna

On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 12:30:37 AM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
When pigs fly.

There are 18 teams registered for the prize, Mookie. You're not one
of them. Registrations have been closed since the end of 2010.

As usually, you're ignorant and delusional.

William Mook wrote:

On Thursday, December 25, 2014 at 11:01:16 PM UTC-5, William Mook wrote:
A 48 micron thick of Aluminum/Magnesium alloy formed into a miniature External Tank that's 51 mm in diameter and 283 mm long that carries 24.85 grams of LH2 and 136.75 grams of LOX - a total of 161.52 grams of propellant carried in a 5.81 gram tank system.

http://www.keytometals.com/Article74.htm

http://3dprintingindustry.com/aerospace/

This is 1/3 the thickness of soda can material made of slightly lighter materials.

The thruster is a MEMS bipropellant rocket with a 425 second Isp. A 2..5 Newton rocket array masses 260 milligrams and covers 7.23 sq mm area. This produces 1.54 gees at lift-off

http://cap.ee.ic.ac.uk/~pdm97/powerm...53_Epstein.pdf
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0105/17trwmems/

The 1080i HDTV camera, laser and radio link, inertial guidance, and control system mass 14 grams and is powered by hydrogen and oxygen vented from the propellant system.

A two kilowatt propellant management and deep space communications system that is comprised of a 1 kW electrolysis unit and a 1 kW MEMS based cryocooler, electrolyzes 225 ml of water into 24.85 grams of LH2 and 136.75 grams of LOX in less than 1 hour. The system holds 1 litre of DI water and can fuel three vehicles in three hours and put them on hold for up to 24 hours and automatically launch them when desired over that period.

The entire system is controlled through a downloadable app from your iPhone6 which streams data from the launch unit via bluetooth and the unit streams from the vehicles via bluetooth when within 100 meters and via laser link at larger distances, including line of sight distances reaching into interplanetary space up to 1 Gbit/sec.

http://www.space.com/22680-nasa-luna...fographic.html

Three boosters may be launched individually or operated as a single clustered unit. The clustered unit may orbit a 35 gram satellite that carries a solar powered ion engine array capable of flying beyond Earth orbit to the Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury, or the Asteroid belt.

http://scmero.ulb.ac.be/project.php?..._membrane.html
http://lmts.epfl.ch/MEMS-ion-source

These units are available from Coeus Limited of NZ. Interested parties may reply to

Prices for ready to fly systems that run on Water and AC mains range $225,000 and up.

According to my friend, Max Keiser, Google is offering $20 million to any private team that can land on the moon before 2017

@StartJOIN startjo.in/maxkeiser

This gives me 690 days to complete this project.

A lander and kick stage can be built for $3 million using RocketLab's high-density monopropellant in combination with micro-scale rocket array.

A modulated laser beam communicates with the largely autonomous device periodically will be adequate for control and confirmation of the completion of the mission, sufficient to collect the $20 million offered.

I will spend $1 million every 180 days and complete the lander, kick stage and ground control in 540 days. I will launch the lander into LEO using an Electron launcher for an additional $5 million.

I will carry out the mission over a four day period. I collect $20 million within 90 days.

The payload, the lander and kick stage, consists of a quadrotor like airframe to which is attached four microrocket arrays fed by eight tanks.

RocketLab's high density monopropellant consists of hydrogen peroxide detonated by a catalyst, in combination with nanoscale graphite particles in colloidal suspension that are stable at room temperature but react with excess high temperature oxygen after the catalyst is added.

http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us...onopropellant/

The relevant equations are;

2 H2O2 ? 2 H2O + O2

?Ho of ?98.2 kJ·mol?1

34.0147 g/mol

and

C + O2 ? CO2

?Ho of ?394.0 kJ·mol?1

44.01 g·mol?1


So, every kilogram of hydrogen peroxide combined with 176.47 grams of carbon produces 529.41 grams of steam along with 647.05 grams of carbon-dioxide. That's 14.7 moles of CO2 releasing ideally 5,792.72 kJ of energy along with 14.7 moles of H2O2 releasing an additional 1,443.54 kJ of energy. This is a total of 6,936.26 kJ of energy applied to 1.17647 kg of propellant.. Applied with 85% efficiency in a well designed engine operating at modest pressure this implies an exhaust velocity of 3,165.89 m/sec.

A 98% concentration of hydrogen peroxide has a density of 1.42 kg/litre. Graphite has a density of 2.23 kg/litre. Thus 1 kg of H2O2 occupies 704.22 ml whilst 176.47 grams of graphite occupies 79.14 ml. A total mass of 1,176.47 grams of a colloidal mixture of nanoscale graphite particles and hydrogen peroxide occupying 783.36 ml of volume. A monopropellant with a density of 1.501 kg/litre

Now that we know the performance of the chosen propellant we start next with 150 kg on orbit above the Earth, the capacity of the Electron launcher;

http://www.rocketlabusa.com/

must increase its speed from 7.9 km/sec to 10.85 km/sec to reach the vicinity of the moon in four days. A difference of 2.95 km/sec. With an exhaust speed of 3.16 km/sec this requires

u = 1 - 1/exp(2.95/3.16) = 0.60685

propellant fraction.

Thus, 91.0263 kg of propellant are required in a 150 kg stage to achieve this.

Divided among four tanks this is 22.7565 kg per tank. Divided by 1.501 kg/litre this is 15.1609 litres per tank. A sphere 307.07 mm in diameter. A 48 micron thick layer of aluminum lithium alloy formed into a spherical tank, using a single point formation process, and welded into structural layers, covers 2,692.27 cm2 and masses 40.9 grams per layer. A total mass of 81.8 grams each tank.

http://www.keytometals.com/Article74.htm

A MEMS based monopropellant rocket array with a 140 to 1 thrust to weight, producing 40 kgf thrust each masses 285.71 grams each. One of these is attached to each tank. The four tanks with their thrusters, operate like a quad rotor as stated previously.

To land on the lunar surface at zero velocity and zero altitude, requires that 2.75 km/sec be imparted to the remaining spacecraft. After burning through 91.0263 kg of propellant the 150 kg spacecraft is reduced to 58.9737 kg. With the same 3.16 km/sec exhaust speed the landing maneuver requires a propellant fraction of;

u = 1 - 1/exp(2.75/3.16) = 0.58116

applied to the stage weight means 34.2732 kg of propellant is expended during landing. This leaves 24.7005 kg on the lunar surface.

For the landing maneuver we have four spheres that are 221.74 mm in diameter. The spheres themselves mass 35.65 grams each and each carry 8.5683 kg of propellant in 5.7084 litres of volume. Using two separate tanks for the two maneuvers assures us of start-up and running the engines in zero gee environment.

Communication is via an open optical data link involving lasers. A telescope on the ground and a telescope aboard the spacecraft point at one another and communicate via modulated laser beam when the sky is clear and the spacecraft is above the horizon. Under these conditions a gigabit data link is achieved.

The vehicle is autonomous and requires only periodic downloads of data to confirm position, status, and provide imagery taken during the flight. Controlling software may also be uploaded at these times as well.

This shows autonomous quad rotors in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvRTALJp8DM

I am of course replacing the rotors with rocket arrays propelled by Rocketlab's high-density monopropellant using MEMS based rocketry fed by integrated tank pairs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFzNMuJvBV0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1cx16TBNh8

I think I'll paint the kick stage pink and call it the flying pig...

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 10:56:02 PM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

In 2010 the closing date was extended to Dec 31, 2015.

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/overview


Uh, it doesn't say that. You can't just declare yourself a
competitor.


And I've entered the fray

http://firstlunar.com


Not a competitor.

http://lunar.xprize.org/teams

"Sorry---we're no longer accepting new teams, but the 18 still in the
running are always looking for help! Support your favorite, spread the
word, and perhaps even join them:"

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/guidelines


https://www.startjoin.com/FirstLuna


If you can get to the moon on bull**** and £74 you're in great shape.
Well, except the whole not being a competitor for the XPrize. You
understand that claiming you can get the Google XPrize to try to rope
in contributors with the promise of a share is FRAUD, since you are
not now a competitor and they are not accepting new ones.

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

We will see.

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 10:56:02 PM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

In 2010 the closing date was extended to Dec 31, 2015.

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/overview


Uh, it doesn't say that. You can't just declare yourself a
competitor.


And I've entered the fray

http://firstlunar.com


Not a competitor.

Yes I am.


http://lunar.xprize.org/teams

"Sorry---we're no longer accepting new teams, but the 18 still in the
running are always looking for help! Support your favorite, spread the
word, and perhaps even join them:"

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/guidelines

I cannot imagine Google ignoring someone meeting their criterion and not issuing their prize, especially if no one else is successful.

In the off-chance they do not pay the prize they've promoted so widely, for the reasons you state, I think that would benefit me and First Lunar's Server Sky system , to Google's Detriment.



https://www.startjoin.com/FirstLuna


If you can get to the moon on bull**** and £74 you're in great shape.

Well its £124 now. I have a group of investors who will jump in at the end of each Crowdfund cycle who understand the debenture I'm offering. They want to memorialize their contributions through this medium, for a variety of reasons.

Well, except the whole not being a competitor for the XPrize.

Answer me this Fred, let's say I put a lander on the moon, and meet all the criterion for winning, and no one else does. What sort of PR would Google get by witholding the prize? Hmm? I cannot imagine that Google would withold the prize from a deserving winner on a technicality.


You
understand that claiming you can get the Google XPrize to try to rope
in contributors with the promise of a share is FRAUD,

Only if I didn't tell them the facts. Since the facts are public knowledge, such things as you allege cannot happen, and your insistence on alleging an impossibility for the sole purpose of causing me financial harm, puts YOU at risk for defamation and worse.

since you are
not now a competitor and they are not accepting new ones.

This is a technicality. Google has put the challenge out there throughout the world. They have extended the timing of their reward. They have handed out money to teams that needed it. I cannot imagine that once I meet all the criterion set up to win the prize, I will not receive it. I don't know how any rational person could. Especially if no one else is even close.


--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
Fred as usual cannot read sensibly. What he alleges is impossible in an open information environment. Its clear he is merely engaging in a vain defamation effort against me.

Here are the facts;

First Lunar Corp., of New Zealand will put a lander on the moon December 2016 and beam images back to Earth through my Server Sky system also placed in orbit at L1 prior to that landing.

That Server Sky system will earn money by providing broadband data transfer and data back up services to users on Earth.

https://www.startjoin.com/updates/project/FirstLuna/771

These services will be quite valuable as pointed out by Vint Cerf, director of the group of which I am part, developing Interplanetary Internet.

https://www.startjoin.com/updates/project/FirstLuna/770

Revenue from these service sales gives value to First Lunar's operations far in excess of what Google offers in their X-Prize.

Now. funders will help make this happen so I am committed to rewarding that..

To that end,

(1) should First Lunar receive the X-Prize, I am committed to distributing it along the lines indicated on my Startjoin website. Now, I can't guarantee I will win. No one can. Yet I believe, I do have a chance, irrespective of any technicalities.

(2) Should any of the other teams beat First Lunar Corp., to the prize, I am committed to converting contributions to debentures in the company and in this way provide the values indicated on Startjoin.

(3) Should First Lunar beat all the other teams I cannot imagine I would not receive the prize, irrespective of your alleged concerns.

(4) Regardless of what Google chooses to do with its prize, First Lunar Corp., has tremendous value going forward irrespective of Google's Prize.

(5) Should First Lunar receive the X-prize, funders will have the option of taking the prize money, or the debentures, according to the schedule provided.

(6) should First Lunar not receive the X-prize, funders will be issued debentures in the amounts they would have received, had First Lunar received the X-Prize.

(7) regardless of what happens, First Lunar is committed to providing what rewards it can, in the amounts indicated at our Startjoin website, within the limits of the law.

Cheers
William

https://www.startjoin.com/FirstLuna

On Sunday, February 15, 2015 at 10:11:04 PM UTC-5, William Mook wrote:
On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 10:56:02 PM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

In 2010 the closing date was extended to Dec 31, 2015.

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/overview


Uh, it doesn't say that. You can't just declare yourself a
competitor.


And I've entered the fray

http://firstlunar.com


Not a competitor.

Yes I am.


http://lunar.xprize.org/teams

"Sorry---we're no longer accepting new teams, but the 18 still in the
running are always looking for help! Support your favorite, spread the
word, and perhaps even join them:"

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/guidelines

I cannot imagine Google ignoring someone meeting their criterion and not issuing their prize, especially if no one else is successful.

In the off-chance they do not pay the prize they've promoted so widely, for the reasons you state, I think that would benefit me and First Lunar's Server Sky system , to Google's Detriment.



https://www.startjoin.com/FirstLuna


If you can get to the moon on bull**** and £74 you're in great shape.

Well its £124 now. I have a group of investors who will jump in at the end of each Crowdfund cycle who understand the debenture I'm offering. They want to memorialize their contributions through this medium, for a variety of reasons.

Well, except the whole not being a competitor for the XPrize.

Answer me this Fred, let's say I put a lander on the moon, and meet all the criterion for winning, and no one else does. What sort of PR would Google get by witholding the prize? Hmm? I cannot imagine that Google would withold the prize from a deserving winner on a technicality.


You
understand that claiming you can get the Google XPrize to try to rope
in contributors with the promise of a share is FRAUD,

Only if I didn't tell them the facts. Since the facts are public knowledge, such things as you allege cannot happen, and your insistence on alleging an impossibility for the sole purpose of causing me financial harm, puts YOU at risk for defamation and worse.

since you are
not now a competitor and they are not accepting new ones.

This is a technicality. Google has put the challenge out there throughout the world. They have extended the timing of their reward. They have handed out money to teams that needed it. I cannot imagine that once I meet all the criterion set up to win the prize, I will not receive it. I don't know how any rational person could. Especially if no one else is even close..


--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
Fred as usual cannot read sensibly. What he alleges is impossible in an open information environment. Its clear he is merely engaging in a vain defamation effort against me.

Here are the facts;

First Lunar Corp., of New Zealand will put a lander on the moon December 2016 and beam images back to Earth through my Server Sky system also placed in orbit at L1 prior to that landing.

That Server Sky system will earn money by providing broadband data transfer and data back up services to users on Earth.

https://www.startjoin.com/updates/project/FirstLuna/771

These services will be quite valuable as pointed out by Vint Cerf, director of the group of which I am part, developing Interplanetary Internet.

https://www.startjoin.com/updates/project/FirstLuna/770

Revenue from these service sales gives value to First Lunar's operations far in excess of what Google offers in their X-Prize.

Now. funders will help make this happen so I am committed to rewarding that.

To that end,

(1) should First Lunar receive the X-Prize, I am committed to distributing it along the lines indicated on my Startjoin website. Now, I can't guarantee I will win. No one can. Yet I believe, I do have a chance, irrespective of any technicalities.

(2) Should any of the other teams beat First Lunar Corp., to the prize, I am committed to converting contributions to debentures in the company and in this way provide the values indicated on Startjoin.

(3) Should First Lunar beat all the other teams I cannot imagine I would not receive the prize, irrespective of your alleged concerns.

(4) Regardless of what Google chooses to do with its prize, First Lunar Corp., has tremendous value going forward irrespective of Google's Prize.

(5) Should First Lunar receive the X-prize, funders will have the option of taking the prize money, or the debentures, according to the schedule provided.

(6) should First Lunar not receive the X-prize, funders will be issued debentures in the amounts they would have received, had First Lunar received the X-Prize.

(7) regardless of what happens, First Lunar is committed to providing what rewards it can, in the amounts indicated at our Startjoin website, within the limits of the law.

Cheers
William

https://www.startjoin.com/FirstLuna

Today's UPDATE:

https://www.startjoin.com/updates/project/FirstLuna/772

On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 9:17:41 PM UTC+13, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

On Saturday, February 14, 2015 at 10:56:02 PM UTC-5, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:

In 2010 the closing date was extended to Dec 31, 2015.

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/overview


Uh, it doesn't say that. You can't just declare yourself a
competitor.


And I've entered the fray

http://firstlunar.com


Not a competitor.

Yes I am.


You're a liar. The website lists all 18 teams. You are not one of
them.



http://lunar.xprize.org/teams

"Sorry---we're no longer accepting new teams, but the 18 still in the
running are always looking for help! Support your favorite, spread the
word, and perhaps even join them:"

http://lunar.xprize.org/about/guidelines


I cannot imagine Google ignoring someone meeting their criterion and not issuing their prize, especially if no one else is successful.


In other words, you are not a competitor.


In the off-chance they do not pay the prize they've promoted so widely, for the reasons you state, I think that would benefit me and First Lunar's Server Sky system , to Google's Detriment.


I think you've just demonstrated that you're insane into the bargain
of being a lying sack of ****.

Mookie, reality has rules. So does the competition for the Google
XPrize. Only crazy people ignore the rules.




https://www.startjoin.com/FirstLuna


If you can get to the moon on bull**** and £74 you're in great shape..


Well its £124 now. I have a group of investors who will jump in at the end of each Crowdfund cycle who understand the debenture I'm offering. They want to memorialize their contributions through this medium, for a variety of reasons.


Well, congratulations on finding seven people with less sense than
money (and very little money). With almost 7% of the time gone you
have collected a whopping 0.055% of your first funding step. If you
have a "group of investors" who can jump in at the end with 99% of the
required funding, why wouldn't one of them shake the change out of the
couch and just cover you 100%?


Well, except the whole not being a competitor for the XPrize.

Answer me this Fred, let's say I put a lander on the moon, and meet all the criterion for winning, and no one else does. What sort of PR would Google get by witholding the prize? Hmm? I cannot imagine that Google would withold the prize from a deserving winner on a technicality.


No impact, since you didn't follow the rules, register for the prize,
etc.


You
understand that claiming you can get the Google XPrize to try to rope
in contributors with the promise of a share is FRAUD,

Only if I didn't tell them the facts. Since the facts are public knowledge, such things as you allege cannot happen, and your insistence on alleging an impossibility for the sole purpose of causing me financial harm, puts YOU at risk for defamation and worse.


How about we inform the Google XPrize folks and let them decide?


since you are
not now a competitor and they are not accepting new ones.

This is a technicality. Google has put the challenge out there throughout the world. They have extended the timing of their reward. They have handed out money to teams that needed it. I cannot imagine that once I meet all the criterion set up to win the prize, I will not receive it. I don't know how any rational person could. Especially if no one else is even close.


This is not a technicality. Your lack of imagination is not a
substitute for your lack of standing to compete.


Fred as usual cannot read sensibly. What he alleges is impossible in an open information environment. Its clear he is merely engaging in a vain defamation effort against me.


Again, how about we notify the Google XPrize folks of your using their
name and see what they think about it?


Here are the facts;

First Lunar Corp., of New Zealand will put a lander on the moon December 2016 and beam images back to Earth through my Server Sky system also placed in orbit at L1 prior to that landing.

That Server Sky system will earn money by providing broadband data transfer and data back up services to users on Earth.

https://www.startjoin.com/updates/project/FirstLuna/771


Those aren't facts. If you ever do them, then they will be facts.
Until that time, they are handwavium.


These services will be quite valuable as pointed out by Vint Cerf, director of the group of which I am part, developing Interplanetary Internet.

https://www.startjoin.com/updates/project/FirstLuna/770


Note that what you are talking about and what Vint cerf is talking
about are two radically different things.

I wonder how Vint would feel about you dragging his name into this and
claiming he's a director of your effort?

Why don't you ask him about it? I am certain he will say that he was a director of the Interplanetary Internet Special Interest Group - a group which includes me as a member - which is what I said.


snip handwavium

Snip all you want. I have a MOU in place for a launcher. The others do not.