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INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 11th 08, 07:29 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Posts: 8,078
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD

http://arxivblog.com/?p=460
"Entanglement is the strange and beautiful property of certain quantum
particles to become so deeply linked that they share the same
existence. According to quantum theory, that link should be maintained
whatever the distance between the particles, whether the width of an
atom or the diameter of the universe. This led Einstein to claim that
the instantaneous effects of entanglement would lead to “spooky action-
at-a-distance” in violation of special relativity which prevents
faster-than-light signals. Nobody knows how the different predictions
of relativity and quantum mechanics can be resolved."

http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/wallace.htm
Bryan Wallace: "I expect that the scientists of the future will
consider the dominant abstract physics theories of our time in much
the same light as we now consider the Medieval theories of how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin or that the Earth stands still
and the Universe moves around it."

Pentcho Valev

  #2  
Old June 11th 08, 08:43 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
kp
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Posts: 7
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD

On Jun 11, 8:29*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:
http://arxivblog.com/?p=460
"Entanglement is the strange and beautiful property of certain quantum
particles to become so deeply linked that they share the same
existence. According to quantum theory, that link should be maintained
whatever the distance between the particles, whether the width of an
atom or the diameter of the universe. This led Einstein to claim that
the instantaneous effects of entanglement would lead to “spooky action-
at-a-distance” in violation of special relativity which prevents
faster-than-light signals. Nobody knows how the different predictions
of relativity and quantum mechanics can be resolved."

http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/wallace.htm
Bryan Wallace: "I expect that the scientists of the future will
consider the dominant abstract physics theories of our time in much
the same light as we now consider the Medieval theories of how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin or that the Earth stands still
and the Universe moves around it."

Pentcho Valev


Where exactly are the incompatible absurdities?

kp
  #3  
Old June 11th 08, 09:17 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
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Posts: 8,078
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD

On Jun 11, 9:43*pm, kp wrote:
On Jun 11, 8:29*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:





http://arxivblog.com/?p=460
"Entanglement is the strange and beautiful property of certain quantum
particles to become so deeply linked that they share the same
existence. According to quantum theory, that link should be maintained
whatever the distance between the particles, whether the width of an
atom or the diameter of the universe. This led Einstein to claim that
the instantaneous effects of entanglement would lead to “spooky action-
at-a-distance” in violation of special relativity which prevents
faster-than-light signals. Nobody knows how the different predictions
of relativity and quantum mechanics can be resolved."


http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/wallace.htm
Bryan Wallace: "I expect that the scientists of the future will
consider the dominant abstract physics theories of our time in much
the same light as we now consider the Medieval theories of how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin or that the Earth stands still
and the Universe moves around it."


Pentcho Valev


Where exactly are the incompatible absurdities?


The theory that predicts that the bug is both squashed and not
squashed:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../bugrivet.html

and that a 80m long pole can be trapped inside a 40m long barn:

http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/ph...barn_pole.html
"These are the props. You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors
at either end, that can be opened and closed simultaneously by a
switch. You also have a pole, 80m long, which of course won't fit in
the barn....So, as the pole passes through the barn, there is an
instant when it is completely within the barn. At that instant, you
close both doors simultaneously, with your switch. Of course, you open
them again pretty quickly, but at least momentarily you had the
contracted pole shut up in your barn."

is incompatible with the theory that predicts teleportation:

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/mar...tart:int=1&-C=
Michio Kaku: "Perhaps the most tangible of the far-out technologies
suggested by Einstein’s theories is teleportation. The key lies in a
celebrated 1935 paper (doc) by Einstein and his colleagues Boris
Podolsky and Nathan Rosen. Ironically, in their paper they proposed an
experiment—the so-called EPR experiment, named for the three authors—
to kill off, once and for all, quantum theory’s introduction of
probability into physics. Quantum theory requires probability because
its formulas do not directly describe things like the precise position
of particles. Instead, the formulas describe waves, known as
Schrödinger waves. The amplitude of the waves at a particular location
translates to the probability that a particle will be found at that
point. As the EPR experiment pointed out, according to quantum theory,
if two particles—electrons, for example—are initially vibrating in
unison (a state called coherence), they can remain in wavelike
synchronization even if they are separated by a large distance. Two
electrons may be trillions of miles apart, but there is still an
invisible Schrödinger wave connecting them, like an umbilical cord. If
something happens to one electron, some of that information is
immediately transmitted to the other, faster than the speed of light.
This concept—that particles vibrating in coherence have some kind of
deep connection—is called quantum entanglement."

Pentcho Valev

  #4  
Old June 11th 08, 09:34 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
Spaceman
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Posts: 584
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD


"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
...
The theory that predicts that the bug is both squashed and not
squashed:


http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../bugrivet.html


Stupid asses thinking speed alone (without collisions) changes
physical length.
(damn rubber rulers!)


and that a 80m long pole can be trapped inside a 40m long barn:


http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/ph...barn_pole.html


Oh look, same thing.
rubber ruler worshippers screaming about how there rulers are rubber!
LOL

is incompatible with the theory that predicts teleportation:



http://discovermagazine.com/2008/mar...tart:int=1&-C=

LOL
Oh, no, the malfunctioning clocks created that too now?
Silly time travel rubber ruler worshippers.
some day they may come back to science.
but not any "time" soon.
Can' they see the problem lies in the malfunctioning clocks
and having a meter (distance) that is determined by a certain
speed (distance per time)
Sheesh
how scientifically unscientific.
LOL

--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman


  #5  
Old June 11th 08, 09:37 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
kp
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Posts: 7
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD

On Jun 11, 10:17*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:43*pm, kp wrote:



On Jun 11, 8:29*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:


http://arxivblog.com/?p=460
"Entanglement is the strange and beautiful property of certain quantum
particles to become so deeply linked that they share the same
existence. According to quantum theory, that link should be maintained
whatever the distance between the particles, whether the width of an
atom or the diameter of the universe. This led Einstein to claim that
the instantaneous effects of entanglement would lead to “spooky action-
at-a-distance” in violation of special relativity which prevents
faster-than-light signals. Nobody knows how the different predictions
of relativity and quantum mechanics can be resolved."


http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/wallace.htm
Bryan Wallace: "I expect that the scientists of the future will
consider the dominant abstract physics theories of our time in much
the same light as we now consider the Medieval theories of how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin or that the Earth stands still
and the Universe moves around it."


Pentcho Valev


Where exactly are the incompatible absurdities?


The theory that predicts that the bug is both squashed and not
squashed:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../bugrivet.html

and that a 80m long pole can be trapped inside a 40m long barn:

http://www.math.ucr.edu/home/baez/ph...barn_pole.html
"These are the props. You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors
at either end, that can be opened and closed simultaneously by a
switch. You also have a pole, 80m long, which of course won't fit in
the barn....So, as the pole passes through the barn, there is an
instant when it is completely within the barn. At that instant, you
close both doors simultaneously, with your switch. Of course, you open
them again pretty quickly, but at least momentarily you had the
contracted pole shut up in your barn."

is incompatible with the theory that predicts teleportation:

http://discovermagazine.com/2008/mar...-possible-next...
Michio Kaku: "Perhaps the most tangible of the far-out technologies
suggested by Einstein’s theories is teleportation. The key lies in a
celebrated 1935 paper (doc) by Einstein and his colleagues Boris
Podolsky and Nathan Rosen. Ironically, in their paper they proposed an
experiment—the so-called EPR experiment, named for the three authors—
to kill off, once and for all, quantum theory’s introduction of
probability into physics. Quantum theory requires probability because
its formulas do not directly describe things like the precise position
of particles. Instead, the formulas describe waves, known as
Schrödinger waves. The amplitude of the waves at a particular location
translates to the probability that a particle will be found at that
point. As the EPR experiment pointed out, according to quantum theory,
if two particles—electrons, for example—are initially vibrating in
unison (a state called coherence), they can remain in wavelike
synchronization even if they are separated by a large distance. Two
electrons may be trillions of miles apart, but there is still an
invisible Schrödinger wave connecting them, like an umbilical cord. If
something happens to one electron, some of that information is
immediately transmitted to the other, faster than the speed of light.
This concept—that particles vibrating in coherence have some kind of
deep connection—is called quantum entanglement."

Pentcho Valev


As far as SR goes there us nothing incompatible in these examples.
They maybe counter intuitive but that doesn't mean they are
unphysical.

kp
  #6  
Old June 11th 08, 09:48 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
Spaceman
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Posts: 584
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD


"kp" wrote in message
...
As far as SR goes there us nothing incompatible in these examples.
They maybe counter intuitive but that doesn't mean they are
unphysical.


unphysical?
like the "observational" change of length with speed yet with no
physical proof of such ever occuring?
or like the observational proof that all clocks that are not
in your frame have slowed down according to your clock?
PUH LEASE!
It is not a matter of unphysical alone.
It is a matter of non-scientific at all.
rubber rulers and malfunctioning clocks is
all they have to keep the "rubber sheet" Universe
spinning.


The time travel thing has got to be the most stupid of all
too.
Until you can move the Entire Universe at your will,
no time traveling will be occuring because the planets and stars
could care less about any clock malfunctions that are being
called "time changing rate".
And don't forget to make the flowers grow backwards if you
are traveling back in time.


--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman



  #7  
Old June 11th 08, 11:31 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
PD
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Posts: 1,572
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD

On Jun 11, 3:17*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:43*pm, kp wrote:



On Jun 11, 8:29*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:


http://arxivblog.com/?p=460
"Entanglement is the strange and beautiful property of certain quantum
particles to become so deeply linked that they share the same
existence. According to quantum theory, that link should be maintained
whatever the distance between the particles, whether the width of an
atom or the diameter of the universe. This led Einstein to claim that
the instantaneous effects of entanglement would lead to “spooky action-
at-a-distance” in violation of special relativity which prevents
faster-than-light signals. Nobody knows how the different predictions
of relativity and quantum mechanics can be resolved."


http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/wallace.htm
Bryan Wallace: "I expect that the scientists of the future will
consider the dominant abstract physics theories of our time in much
the same light as we now consider the Medieval theories of how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin or that the Earth stands still
and the Universe moves around it."


Pentcho Valev


Where exactly are the incompatible absurdities?


The theory that predicts that the bug is both squashed and not
squashed:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../bugrivet.html


It doesn't. It is definitely squashed, according to the theory,
despite your link.


and that a 80m long pole can be trapped inside a 40m long barn:


That's not an absurdity. You have an additional assumption in your
head that's making it absurd that is not a justified assumption. You
are assuming that length is something that is frame-independent --
this is what you think "physically real" means. It isn't, and it
doesn't. The fact that an 80m long pole (as measured in one frame) can
get trapped inside a barn that is 40m long (as measured in another
frame) is perfectly consistent with the laws of physics, though your
assumption needs to be discarded as unnecessary and inconsistent with
the laws of physics.


is incompatible with the theory that predicts teleportation:


And why is that an incompatible absurdity? Entanglement is not
teleportation. Are you having conceptual difficulties?

PD

  #8  
Old June 11th 08, 11:56 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
Spaceman
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Posts: 584
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD


"PD" wrote in message
...
You are assuming that length is something that is frame-independent --
this is what you think "physically real" means.


Physical length is frame independant
It is however optical dependant for illusion of length.
unless you use rubber rulers.
Imagine that!
LOL

--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman




  #9  
Old June 12th 08, 12:29 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,078
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD

On Jun 12, 12:31*am, PD wrote:
On Jun 11, 3:17*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:





On Jun 11, 9:43*pm, kp wrote:


On Jun 11, 8:29*pm, Pentcho Valev wrote:


http://arxivblog.com/?p=460
"Entanglement is the strange and beautiful property of certain quantum
particles to become so deeply linked that they share the same
existence. According to quantum theory, that link should be maintained
whatever the distance between the particles, whether the width of an
atom or the diameter of the universe. This led Einstein to claim that
the instantaneous effects of entanglement would lead to “spooky action-
at-a-distance” in violation of special relativity which prevents
faster-than-light signals. Nobody knows how the different predictions
of relativity and quantum mechanics can be resolved."


http://www.ekkehard-friebe.de/wallace.htm
Bryan Wallace: "I expect that the scientists of the future will
consider the dominant abstract physics theories of our time in much
the same light as we now consider the Medieval theories of how many
angels can dance on the head of a pin or that the Earth stands still
and the Universe moves around it."


Pentcho Valev


Where exactly are the incompatible absurdities?


The theory that predicts that the bug is both squashed and not
squashed:


http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../bugrivet.html


It doesn't. It is definitely squashed, according to the theory,
despite your link.



and that a 80m long pole can be trapped inside a 40m long barn:


That's not an absurdity. You have an additional assumption in your
head that's making it absurd that is not a justified assumption. You
are assuming that length is something that is frame-independent --
this is what you think "physically real" means. It isn't, and it
doesn't. The fact that an 80m long pole (as measured in one frame) can
get trapped inside a barn that is 40m long (as measured in another
frame) is perfectly consistent with the laws of physics


How long is the pole already trapped inside the barn (the doors have
stopped it so it is at rest in the barn's frame now)? 80m? 40m? What
do the laws of physics say?

Pentcho Valev


  #10  
Old June 12th 08, 06:11 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique,sci.astro
G. L. Bradford
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Posts: 258
Default INCOMPATIBLE ABSURDITIES IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD


"Spaceman" wrote in message
. ..

"kp" wrote in message
...
As far as SR goes there us nothing incompatible in these examples.
They maybe counter intuitive but that doesn't mean they are
unphysical.


unphysical?
like the "observational" change of length with speed yet with no
physical proof of such ever occuring?
or like the observational proof that all clocks that are not
in your frame have slowed down according to your clock?
PUH LEASE!
It is not a matter of unphysical alone.
It is a matter of non-scientific at all.
rubber rulers and malfunctioning clocks is
all they have to keep the "rubber sheet" Universe
spinning.


The time travel thing has got to be the most stupid of all
too.
Until you can move the Entire Universe at your will,
no time traveling will be occuring because the planets and stars
could care less about any clock malfunctions that are being
called "time changing rate".
And don't forget to make the flowers grow backwards if you
are traveling back in time.


--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman


If a space traveler travels from Sol to a star ten light years from Sol
[in two years], how far away from the star, in light years, is Sol observed
to be? How many years is that? In what direction of time, observed?

What does the traveler observe of the star to his front -- observe of the
ten light years, the nine light years, the eight light years, the four, the
two, the one light year, the one light day -- each second, minute, hour, day
and year of the voyage? What does the traveler observe concerning Sol
(getting to be ten light years away) to his rear, each second, minute, day
and year?

Observationally, the traveler starts out already backward in time (-10
years ("all history universe")) regarding his destination (0 ("as is
universe"))! He has to cross that ten light years in addition to his travel
time, within his travel time! Internally he logs two years of travel time.
Externally he observes twelve years of travel time inside that logged two
years of travel time. At the end of the voyage, one way to the star, Sol is
ten light years away (-10 years ("all history universe"), observed.

No physicist on Earth will start any traveler out in minus time to the
destination (already backward in time vis-a-vis the destination). No
physicist on Earth recognizes the existence of an "all history universe" or
its relationship to light. Not a single one!

Of course no traveler is ever going to travel backward in time because
distantly (however distantly) backward in time is the starting gate. The
traveler is already there (to as much as 13.7 billion, or 75
billion....whatever, years backward in time).

GLB

 




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