It isn't NASA ...

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable images and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day. They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'


http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL

On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable images
and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day. They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add
adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release
every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'



http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL


I wouldn't read too much into it, it's not unusual to hold back images
or data until they have been properly analyzed, it's done all the time.

They could release them though, from the ones available so far I can't
see why to hold any more back. Copyright worries perhaps.

"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable
images and the other data so far. And the data amount
increases day by day. They are really precious and may make a
huge impact to the existing planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for
improper and inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project
intends to add adequate calibration and speculation to those
data and will make them public later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not
release every detailed information. We in advance would
appreciate the understanding of the Hayabusa supporters in the
world. ...'


http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...ion/muses_c/in
dex_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

Maybe it means they faked the whole thing.

From that page: "HAYABUSA employs a new technology - the ion
engine. This engine first ionizes the propellant gas, Xenon, then
electrically accelerates and emits the ions, to propel itself
forward."

How did the ion engine get "new" again?

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable images
and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day. They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add
adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release
every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'



http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL


Ray suggests:

I wouldn't read too much into it, it's not unusual to hold back images
or data until they have been properly analyzed, it's done all the time.

As per example, Michael Brown and planet Xena ?

See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09...onomical_spat/

They could release them though, from the ones available so far I can't
see why to hold any more back. Copyright worries perhaps.

IMO, it's ESA that seems to have the 'hots' for those sorts of control
issues.

For the Japanese it seems like a cultural thing. Embarrassment at
loosing face.

Whatever the cause, however the affectation, I consider it foolish and
reckless.

There is a cardinal rule in Acaedemia. "Thou shalt not lie or fudge."

One can be a completely inept, dense twit in every other regard and
STILL be accepted and respected as a scientist/academic. Yet, break
that code of truthfullness even slightly 'once' and the gods of
acadaemia will descend and punish w/o mercy.

Did you ever wonder why it was this way ? Do you really think that
academics are such 'goody, goody, two shoes' ? ... Nope.

The reason is that it is so incredibly easy to mislead one's self, to
lie to one's self whilst in the pursuit of truth. ... Ultimately
unavoidable and inescapable.

Anyone who sets out at the very outset to be deliberately deceitful;
disrespects and disregards the very essence of truthful enquiry.

The truth is so terribly difficult to come by EVEN IF one is
scrupulously honest about it. Thus, there is zero tolerance for liars
and cheats. It's an attitude issue.

IMO, holding back, control issues and saving face are all secondary
corruptors of truthful enquiry. It shows. It can lead to costly and
tragic mistakes.

Also, we are all human.

RL

On 3 Oct 2005 19:32:19 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable
images
and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day.
They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper
and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add
adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them
public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release
every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the
understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'




http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL

=20
Ray suggests:
=20
I wouldn't read too much into it, it's not unusual to hold back
images
or data until they have been properly analyzed, it's done all the
time.
=20
As per example, Michael Brown and planet Xena ?
=20
See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09...onomical_spat/

=46rom my readings of this event(so far) I think Brown was waiting to
gather as much information and observing details as he could before
going public. Which would seem the proper thing to do, I don't think
anything was being kept secret by Brown as has been claimed.

=20
They could release them though, from the ones available so far I
can't
see why to hold any more back. Copyright worries perhaps.
=20
IMO, it's ESA that seems to have the 'hots' for those sorts of control
issues.
=20
For the Japanese it seems like a cultural thing. Embarrassment at
loosing face.
=20
Whatever the cause, however the affectation, I consider it foolish and
reckless.

I don't know why they just don't release them, remember Titan earlier in
the year?, those images were available very very quickly really. Then
Deep Impact, some of Deep Impact were available almost in real time ;-)

=20
There is a cardinal rule in Acaedemia. "Thou shalt not lie or fudge."
=20
One can be a completely inept, dense twit in every other regard and
STILL be accepted and respected as a scientist/academic. Yet, break
that code of truthfullness even slightly 'once' and the gods of
acadaemia will descend and punish w/o mercy.
=20
Did you ever wonder why it was this way ? Do you really think that
academics are such 'goody, goody, two shoes' ? ... Nope.
=20
The reason is that it is so incredibly easy to mislead one's self, to
lie to one's self whilst in the pursuit of truth. ... Ultimately
unavoidable and inescapable.
=20
Anyone who sets out at the very outset to be deliberately deceitful;
disrespects and disregards the very essence of truthful enquiry.
=20
The truth is so terribly difficult to come by EVEN IF one is
scrupulously honest about it. Thus, there is zero tolerance for liars
and cheats. It's an attitude issue.
=20
IMO, holding back, control issues and saving face are all secondary
corruptors of truthful enquiry. It shows. It can lead to costly and
tragic mistakes.

Sure, as above with Brown, now I can see many astronomers not putting
anything about their studies and observing any where near the net, which
is understandable I suppose. If you have spent a lot of time and effort
in something and get it hijacked because someone read something about
your work on the net then it will only lead to people trying to keep
what they are doing more hidden.


=20
Also, we are all human.
=20
RL
=20

nightbat wrote

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On 3 Oct 2005 19:32:19 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable
images
and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day.
They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper
and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add
adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them
public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release
every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the
understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'




http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL


Ray suggests:

I wouldn't read too much into it, it's not unusual to hold back
images
or data until they have been properly analyzed, it's done all the
time.

As per example, Michael Brown and planet Xena ?

See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09...onomical_spat/

From my readings of this event(so far) I think Brown was waiting to
gather as much information and observing details as he could before
going public. Which would seem the proper thing to do, I don't think
anything was being kept secret by Brown as has been claimed.


They could release them though, from the ones available so far I
can't
see why to hold any more back. Copyright worries perhaps.

IMO, it's ESA that seems to have the 'hots' for those sorts of control
issues.

For the Japanese it seems like a cultural thing. Embarrassment at
loosing face.

Whatever the cause, however the affectation, I consider it foolish and
reckless.

I don't know why they just don't release them, remember Titan earlier in
the year?, those images were available very very quickly really. Then
Deep Impact, some of Deep Impact were available almost in real time ;-)


There is a cardinal rule in Acaedemia. "Thou shalt not lie or fudge."

One can be a completely inept, dense twit in every other regard and
STILL be accepted and respected as a scientist/academic. Yet, break
that code of truthfullness even slightly 'once' and the gods of
acadaemia will descend and punish w/o mercy.

Did you ever wonder why it was this way ? Do you really think that
academics are such 'goody, goody, two shoes' ? ... Nope.

The reason is that it is so incredibly easy to mislead one's self, to
lie to one's self whilst in the pursuit of truth. ... Ultimately
unavoidable and inescapable.

Anyone who sets out at the very outset to be deliberately deceitful;
disrespects and disregards the very essence of truthful enquiry.

The truth is so terribly difficult to come by EVEN IF one is
scrupulously honest about it. Thus, there is zero tolerance for liars
and cheats. It's an attitude issue.

IMO, holding back, control issues and saving face are all secondary
corruptors of truthful enquiry. It shows. It can lead to costly and
tragic mistakes.

Also, we are all human.

RL


Ray
Sure, as above with Brown, now I can see many astronomers not putting
anything about their studies and observing any where near the net, which
is understandable I suppose. If you have spent a lot of time and effort
in something and get it hijacked because someone read something about
your work on the net then it will only lead to people trying to keep
what they are doing more hidden.


nightbat

Officer Ray, did you ever wonder what happened to the pre 2000
nightbat posts which net disappeared especially now with that science
link admitting of net post removals. My " Black Comet " net model for
black hole resolution was net science group posted before all the rest
because I took the heat for it. Even Hawking finally just recently
reversed himself due to posted net fact reminder that energy cannot be
destroyed. I remember when Officer oc and Officer Herb now Bert first
Web tv started posting. Regular computer users Uncle Al, Mr. Green, Mr.
Wilson, etc. over in sci.physics are amongst some of the oldest regular
posters that I can remember. The race to be first in Academia is great
but must be based on credible real world observation and mathematical
pointing proofs. You know you must be making science waves when your
posts come up missing and others try to claim same without referenced
pointing backed-up proof. The reason why the fun with Darla highlights
this situation is because all scientific peers know the working model
supersedes all known knowledge and science. One net reported Darla
Starship does not need guarded scientific peer analyzed papers for the
purported final Sean Race visiting model would speak for itself. Can't
be done is always overtaken by working produced actual model. The race
for credit is another thing and the reason at the time Patent Examiner
Dr. Einstein noticed the disparity between who came in to claim credit
and their many times clueless limited knowledge of same. Many original
designers for whatever reason for instance are wholly tricked, or poorly
sum bought out, or due to death and relative family paper mental
property claims, or give up proprietary Patent rights in return for
research laboratory use setting and steady employment, giving the full
credit for their creations to other interests or better financing second
or third parties.

The net is no different with lots of intellectual property predators or
seekers looking for whatever they can pick up before the general masses
do. Writers, students, researchers, teachers, all looking for ideas to
further their own noble agendas without regard or forgetting to give
proper credit where credit or compensation is rightly due. Should we as
profound elite Earth Science Team members stop researching and posting
for fear our net relayed enlightenment will be stolen or borrowed
without acknowledgment? How many inventions have I given freely just to
advance the public good, too many to mention. For the truly gifted and
noble are noted for their works. Dr. Tesla gave so much with so little
if any compensation for all of his profound discoveries. Many claimed
the credit but few could even understand the deep profound theory, math,
and 1st discovery behind it.

I consider it a great honor that net purported advanced Darla Sean Race
have taken note of the humble fearless Earthman the nightbat and named a
reported Starship after me. At least if nothing else I got great
enjoyment, respect, and fun as Officer oc points out of which it's all
about. How many, ha, ha, ha, can claim they have a Starship named after
them, none. And how many can claim the most lovely, beautiful, daring,
fearless, intelligent, stunning, nude exotic, far advanced being is
waiting for them, none. How many can claim so many loyal, profound,
scientific, astute, Team Member deep thinking, including reported out of
this world friends and fellows, none. So you see fleeting claimed
credit, awards, and glory is not all its drummed up to be, for remember
the fun Zorro hero plot and that famous story line quote, when the
people are ready their leader appears. Ha, ha, ha, as Earth Science Team
Members we may be reluctant heroes and just think of all the coffee boys
that follow us around but will never be entitled to a mysterious Captain
nightbat Star Glow duty shirt or cap. Share your mental wealth, a little
mystery, sensitivity, patience, intellectual brilliance and glory, it
can only make you even more World and Universe famous. And remember to
have fun and keep your friends along the way for that is the true
wealth.

That reminds me Officer Ray, you haven't duty ordered your now rare one
of a kind famous Science Officer Star glow shirt and Star glow cap yet,
what are you waiting for? Show your net Science Team elite status, you
earned it! One of the first who ordered Officer Double-A should be
receiving his about now. Who knows maybe he will net link post a pic of
it. Including perhaps Officer Bert for he should be getting his caps
too.

Send Indy Base One Headquarters Officer request for it to:



carry on,
the nightbat

nightbat wrote:

nightbat wrote

Ray Vingnutte wrote:

On 3 Oct 2005 19:32:19 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable
images
and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day.
They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper
and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add
adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them
public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release
every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the
understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'




http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL


Ray suggests:

I wouldn't read too much into it, it's not unusual to hold back
images
or data until they have been properly analyzed, it's done all the
time.

As per example, Michael Brown and planet Xena ?

See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09...onomical_spat/

From my readings of this event(so far) I think Brown was waiting to
gather as much information and observing details as he could before
going public. Which would seem the proper thing to do, I don't think
anything was being kept secret by Brown as has been claimed.


They could release them though, from the ones available so far I
can't
see why to hold any more back. Copyright worries perhaps.

IMO, it's ESA that seems to have the 'hots' for those sorts of control
issues.

For the Japanese it seems like a cultural thing. Embarrassment at
loosing face.

Whatever the cause, however the affectation, I consider it foolish and
reckless.

I don't know why they just don't release them, remember Titan earlier in
the year?, those images were available very very quickly really. Then
Deep Impact, some of Deep Impact were available almost in real time ;-)


There is a cardinal rule in Acaedemia. "Thou shalt not lie or fudge."

One can be a completely inept, dense twit in every other regard and
STILL be accepted and respected as a scientist/academic. Yet, break
that code of truthfullness even slightly 'once' and the gods of
acadaemia will descend and punish w/o mercy.

Did you ever wonder why it was this way ? Do you really think that
academics are such 'goody, goody, two shoes' ? ... Nope.

The reason is that it is so incredibly easy to mislead one's self, to
lie to one's self whilst in the pursuit of truth. ... Ultimately
unavoidable and inescapable.

Anyone who sets out at the very outset to be deliberately deceitful;
disrespects and disregards the very essence of truthful enquiry.

The truth is so terribly difficult to come by EVEN IF one is
scrupulously honest about it. Thus, there is zero tolerance for liars
and cheats. It's an attitude issue.

IMO, holding back, control issues and saving face are all secondary
corruptors of truthful enquiry. It shows. It can lead to costly and
tragic mistakes.

Also, we are all human.

RL


Ray
Sure, as above with Brown, now I can see many astronomers not putting
anything about their studies and observing any where near the net, which
is understandable I suppose. If you have spent a lot of time and effort
in something and get it hijacked because someone read something about
your work on the net then it will only lead to people trying to keep
what they are doing more hidden.


nightbat

Officer Ray, did you ever wonder what happened to the pre 2000
nightbat posts which net disappeared especially now with that science
link admitting of net post removals. My " Black Comet " net model for
black hole resolution was net science group posted before all the rest
because I took the heat for it. Even Hawking finally just recently
reversed himself due to posted net fact reminder that energy cannot be
destroyed. I remember when Officer oc and Officer Herb now Bert first
Web tv started posting. Regular computer users Uncle Al, Mr. Green, Mr.
Wilson, etc. over in sci.physics are amongst some of the oldest regular
posters that I can remember. The race to be first in Academia is great
but must be based on credible real world observation and mathematical
pointing proofs. You know you must be making science waves when your
posts come up missing and others try to claim same without referenced
pointing backed-up proof. The reason why the fun with Darla highlights
this situation is because all scientific peers know the working model
supersedes all known knowledge and science. One net reported Darla
Starship does not need guarded scientific peer analyzed papers for the
purported final Sean Race visiting model would speak for itself. Can't
be done is always overtaken by working produced actual model. The race
for credit is another thing and the reason at the time Patent Examiner
Dr. Einstein noticed the disparity between who came in to claim credit
and their many times clueless limited knowledge of same. Many original
designers for whatever reason for instance are wholly tricked, or poorly
sum bought out, or due to death and relative family paper mental
property claims, or give up proprietary Patent rights in return for
research laboratory use setting and steady employment, giving the full
credit for their creations to other interests or better financing second
or third parties.

The net is no different with lots of intellectual property predators or
seekers looking for whatever they can pick up before the general masses
do. Writers, students, researchers, teachers, all looking for ideas to
further their own noble agendas without regard or forgetting to give
proper credit where credit or compensation is rightly due. Should we as
profound elite Earth Science Team members stop researching and posting
for fear our net relayed enlightenment will be stolen or borrowed
without acknowledgment? How many inventions have I given freely just to
advance the public good, too many to mention. For the truly gifted and
noble are noted for their works. Dr. Tesla gave so much with so little
if any compensation for all of his profound discoveries. Many claimed
the credit but few could even understand the deep profound theory, math,
and 1st discovery behind it.

I consider it a great honor that net purported advanced Darla Sean Race
have taken note of the humble fearless Earthman the nightbat and named a
reported Starship after me. At least if nothing else I got great
enjoyment, respect, and fun as Officer oc points out of which it's all
about. How many, ha, ha, ha, can claim they have a Starship named after
them, none. And how many can claim the most lovely, beautiful, daring,
fearless, intelligent, stunning, nude exotic, far advanced being is
waiting for them, none. How many can claim so many loyal, profound,
scientific, astute, Team Member deep thinking, including reported out of
this world friends and fellows, none. So you see fleeting claimed
credit, awards, and glory is not all its drummed up to be, for remember
the fun Zorro hero plot and that famous story line quote, when the
people are ready their leader appears. Ha, ha, ha, as Earth Science Team
Members we may be reluctant heroes and just think of all the coffee boys
that follow us around but will never be entitled to a mysterious Captain
nightbat Star Glow duty shirt or cap. Share your mental wealth, a little
mystery, sensitivity, patience, intellectual brilliance and glory, it
can only make you even more World and Universe famous. And remember to
have fun and keep your friends along the way for that is the true
wealth.

That reminds me Officer Ray, you haven't duty ordered your now rare one
of a kind famous Science Officer Star glow shirt and Star glow cap yet,
what are you waiting for? Show your net Science Team elite status, you
earned it! One of the first who ordered Officer Double-A should be
receiving his about now. Who knows maybe he will net link post a pic of
it. Including perhaps Officer Bert for he should be getting his caps
too.

Send Indy Base One Headquarters Officer request for it to:



carry on,
the nightbat

Bravo, a great campaign speech!

--
Official Associate AFA-B Vote Rustler

"The original human being was a female hermaphrodite with
both male and female genitalia."

"Human beings CAN NOT live in a solar system without a sun
with a ferrite core and a planet without a solid iron core."

-- Alexa Cameron, Kook of the Year 2004

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable images
and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day. They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add
adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release
every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'



http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL


I wouldn't read too much into it, it's not unusual to hold back images
or data until they have been properly analyzed, it's done all the time.

They could release them though, from the ones available so far I can't
see why to hold any more back. Copyright worries perhaps.


Another frustrating page.

Please see below on current status of Hayabusa (PDF: 270KB).
PDF link ...
http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...20051004_e.pdf

On 5 Oct 2005 04:13:49 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

' ...-On the Web Release of High Resolution Data
Fortunately, Hayabusa has accumulated a lot of very valuable
images
and
the other data so far. And the data amount increases day by day.
They
are really precious and may make a huge impact to the existing
planetary science knowledge.
High resolution images themselves can be readily used for improper
and
inaccurate interpretation. And Hayabusa project intends to add
adequate
calibration and speculation to those data and will make them
public
later but in timely manner.
To this end, Hayabusa project for the time being will not release
every
detailed information. We in advance would appreciate the
understanding
of the Hayabusa supporters in the world. ...'




http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...c/index_e.html

Kooksville ?
Godzilla ?

... I'm not sure how to describe/respond to this ...

RL


I wouldn't read too much into it, it's not unusual to hold back
images
or data until they have been properly analyzed, it's done all the
time.

They could release them though, from the ones available so far I
can't
see why to hold any more back. Copyright worries perhaps.


Another frustrating page.

Please see below on current status of Hayabusa (PDF: 270KB).
PDF link ...

http://www.jaxa.jp/missions/projects...20051004_e.pdf


yeah, they haven't quite got the hang of this it would seem, a stupid
way to put out some pics, unless there was supposed to be some comment
on the blank pages..

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 5 Oct 2005 04:13:49 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:

Ray Vingnutte wrote:
On 3 Oct 2005 08:19:08 -0700
"Raving Loonie" wrote:


* * * J A P A N E S E * * *

yeah, they haven't quite got the hang of this it would seem, a stupid
way to put out some pics, unless there was supposed to be some comment
on the blank pages..

? ? ? ? ?

????????

...... ... .. ...... ... ..

RL