Planetary Alignments - Observation question

I was thinking of this this morning, and by coincidence I see a number
of postings on "harmonic convergence." I am curious if any of you (I
imagine a number of you) have observed during a planetary convergence.
In other words, I imagine it is theoretically possible to see Mars
through Pluto (demi-planet?) if your half of the Earth is facing away
from the sun. I would be interested in hearing any stories (or being
corrected if I have missed something). Regarding the November 8/9
event - out on the left coast I will only catch half of the eclipse,
but will I still be able to catch Mars Jupiter and Saturn fairly close
to each other?

socalsw
Erik

solcalsw posted:

I am curious if any of you (I
imagine a number of you) have observed during a planetary convergence.

This "harmonic" convergence/concordence, I'm afraid, is just so much new-age
garbage. I have observed during the dates of these so-called "convergences",
but there are no true full planetary alignments, and the dates of these
alleged "events" do not necessarily represent good times to view all the
planets. The orbits of the planets are elliptical and tilted, which prevents
them from all lining up precisely (or, in most cases, even approximately).
Some astrologers have tried to make pretty patterns out of all this, but
again, it has little to do with reality. The planets are not lining up in any
particularly-astonishing way. In fact, this non-event is even less impressive
than the previous so-called "line-ups". For the facts behind this, check out:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/concordance.html

In other words, I imagine it is theoretically possible to see Mars
through Pluto (demi-planet?) if your half of the Earth is facing away
from the sun.

Not likely. The orbit of Pluto (a planet, according to the IAU) is tilted at
a noticable angle to the orbits of the Earth and Mars, so that it would
probably never be seen passing behind Mars as seen from Earth in a person's
lifetime. Even if it did, the glare of Mars would probably make tiny faint
Pluto invisible even before it actually went behind the planet. Occasionally,
a few planets do occult one another, but not more than two at a time and not
very often.

Regarding the November 8/9
event - out on the left coast I will only catch half of the eclipse,
but will I still be able to catch Mars Jupiter and Saturn fairly close
to each other?

By "left coast" I assume you mean the west coast. Mars will be nowhere near
Jupiter or Saturn. None of these planets will seem or appear very close to
each other. On November 8/9, Venus will be low in the western sky just after
sunset (tough to see), and Mars will appear high in the southwestern sky.
After 9 p.m. local time, Saturn should be low in the eastern sky and will
climb high by midnight. Jupiter is in the pre-dawn sky, so you will have to
wait a few more hours to see it well (rises after 1 a.m. local time). Clear
skies to you.
--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 11th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 18-23, 2004, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************

"socalsw" wrote in message
om...
I was thinking of this this morning, and by coincidence I see a number
of postings on "harmonic convergence." I am curious if any of you (I
imagine a number of you) have observed during a planetary convergence.
In other words, I imagine it is theoretically possible to see Mars
through Pluto (demi-planet?) if your half of the Earth is facing away
from the sun. I would be interested in hearing any stories (or being
corrected if I have missed something). Regarding the November 8/9
event - out on the left coast I will only catch half of the eclipse,
but will I still be able to catch Mars Jupiter and Saturn fairly close
to each other?

The "alignments" that we hear about are not that close. It is EXTREMELY
rare (like once per millennium) for a planet to actually pass in front of
another planet as seen from earth. About once in a lifetime, you can see
two planets in the same field of the telescope at medium power.

As for "the November 8/9 event" I don't know what you're talking about.
Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn will not even be in the same general area of the
sky. Mars will set in the early evening, Saturn will rise after midnight,
and Jupiter will rise even later.


--
Clear skies,

Michael Covington -- www.covingtoninnovations.com
Author, Astrophotography for the Amateur
and (new) How to Use a Computerized Telescope

My guess about November 8/9 is the lunar eclipse? I think David
addressed that in his post.

--Ben

Michael A. Covington wrote:

As for "the November 8/9 event" I don't know what you're talking about.
Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn will not even be in the same general area of the
sky. Mars will set in the early evening, Saturn will rise after midnight,
and Jupiter will rise even later.

(socalsw) wrote in message . com...
Regarding the November 8/9
event - out on the left coast I will only catch half of the eclipse,
but will I still be able to catch Mars Jupiter and Saturn fairly close
to each other?

Nope. Mars (in Aquarius) sets just about as Jupiter (in Leo) rises
(around 2-2:30 AM), with Saturn (in Gemini) roughly halfway in
between. They're very far apart, in other words.

Wait till May of next year -- Venus, Mars, and Saturn will be
reasonably close in the western early evening sky, with Jupiter also
visible high in the south.

It has just occurred to me that another of the many things wrong with
astrology is that it treats the earth as the center of the universe... ?

Thanks alot for clearing that up David. To clarify my own earlier
post, I was thinking that an alignment might place the planets in the
sky (relative to the observer) at the same time, but orbits being what
they are, they would not be even in the same field. As for the
November 8/9 "event," I saw this in the "harmonic convergence" post
and, stupid me, thought that there might be _something_ to it (aside
from the eclipse, of course). I had not even thought of Pluto's
orbit, but now feel dumb because that seemed pretty obvious, even for
a relative newbie (1 1/2 yrs observing). Thanks again...

socalsw
Erik


David Knisely wrote in message news:1066805913.397300@cache1...
solcalsw posted:

I am curious if any of you (I
imagine a number of you) have observed during a planetary convergence.

This "harmonic" convergence/concordence, I'm afraid, is just so much new-age
garbage. I have observed during the dates of these so-called "convergences",
but there are no true full planetary alignments, and the dates of these
alleged "events" do not necessarily represent good times to view all the
planets. The orbits of the planets are elliptical and tilted, which prevents
them from all lining up precisely (or, in most cases, even approximately).
Some astrologers have tried to make pretty patterns out of all this, but
again, it has little to do with reality. The planets are not lining up in any
particularly-astonishing way. In fact, this non-event is even less impressive
than the previous so-called "line-ups". For the facts behind this, check out:
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/concordance.html

In other words, I imagine it is theoretically possible to see Mars
through Pluto (demi-planet?) if your half of the Earth is facing away
from the sun.

Not likely. The orbit of Pluto (a planet, according to the IAU) is tilted at
a noticable angle to the orbits of the Earth and Mars, so that it would
probably never be seen passing behind Mars as seen from Earth in a person's
lifetime. Even if it did, the glare of Mars would probably make tiny faint
Pluto invisible even before it actually went behind the planet. Occasionally,
a few planets do occult one another, but not more than two at a time and not
very often.

Regarding the November 8/9
event - out on the left coast I will only catch half of the eclipse,
but will I still be able to catch Mars Jupiter and Saturn fairly close
to each other?

By "left coast" I assume you mean the west coast. Mars will be nowhere near
Jupiter or Saturn. None of these planets will seem or appear very close to
each other. On November 8/9, Venus will be low in the western sky just after
sunset (tough to see), and Mars will appear high in the southwestern sky.
After 9 p.m. local time, Saturn should be low in the eastern sky and will
climb high by midnight. Jupiter is in the pre-dawn sky, so you will have to
wait a few more hours to see it well (rises after 1 a.m. local time). Clear
skies to you.
--
David W. Knisely
Prairie Astronomy Club: http://www.prairieastronomyclub.org
Hyde Memorial Observatory: http://www.hydeobservatory.info/

**********************************************
* Attend the 11th Annual NEBRASKA STAR PARTY *
* July 18-23, 2004, Merritt Reservoir *
* http://www.NebraskaStarParty.org *
**********************************************

In article ,
Michael A. Covington wrote:

It has just occurred to me that another of the many things wrong with
astrology is that it treats the earth as the center of the universe... ?

.....yep ..... and to them the "universe" consists of the solar
system and little else.... but they do have accepted the existence
of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto though, so at least they're slightly
up to date..... :-) Anyway, their "universe" is that small cozy
medieval universe which was so small compared to today's universe.
And everything revolves around us and influence OUR lives ....
that's their worldview.

Astrology could perhaps best be viewed as some "museum" of medieval
astronomy, with a "staff" which actually still believes in that
stuff. Note for instance that they refer to also the Sun and Moon as
"planets", just like people did in medieval times. But there's one
big difference though: medieval astronomers actually observed the sky
-- contemporary astrologers do not, but instead rely on the
ephemerides astronomers have computed....

--
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Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN
e-mail: pausch at stockholm dot bostream dot se
WWW: http://www.stjarnhimlen.se/
http://home.tiscali.se/pausch/

"Paul Schlyter" wrote in message
...

up to date..... :-) Anyway, their "universe" is that small cozy
medieval universe which was so small compared to today's universe.
And everything revolves around us and influence OUR lives ....
that's their worldview.

Astrology could perhaps best be viewed as some "museum" of medieval
astronomy, with a "staff" which actually still believes in that
stuff. Note for instance that they refer to also the Sun and Moon as
"planets", just like people did in medieval times. But there's one
big difference though: medieval astronomers actually observed the sky
-- contemporary astrologers do not, but instead rely on the
ephemerides astronomers have computed....

Good points.

The real problem with astrology, in my opinion, is not simply that it
doesn't work. The problem goes deeper.

(1) Astrology is fossilized. Although it grows in complexity (e.g., by
adding Pluto), it never readjusts its framework to accommodate new
knowledge.

(2) Astrologers aren't interested in *why* astrology might work. No
plausible mechanism has been proposed and no mechanism is being looked for.
(It isn't gravity or any known kind of radiation, for reasons we have often
discussed here.)

Until the 1600s, astrology was not cleanly separate from astronomy, and
indeed, back then one could believe that the planets might affect human
behavior the way the weather does. But as more was discovered about the
planets, astrology dug in its heels and made to attempt to accommodate the
new knowledge. That's when science parted ways with it.

"Michael A. Covington" wrote
in message ...
behavior the way the weather does. But as more was discovered about the
planets, astrology dug in its heels and made to attempt to accommodate the
new knowledge. That's when science parted ways with it.

er, I mean " made *no* attempt ".