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Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 19th 07, 01:41 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
kT
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Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

Pat Flannery wrote:


Pat Flannery wrote:

The ratings have dropped severely as the years go on, and even that
rumored "Iran: WW III" spin-off series doesn't look like it's got the
boffo biz potential of WW II.


Already getting bad reviews pre-production:
http://www.mytelus.com/ncp_news/arti...icleID=2779962
"He didn't mean it! For God's sake, just because he said it, doesn't
mean he _meant_ it!" :-)
Assuming humanity actually survives this administration, I've got to
read a really big book about it, tracing its history week-by-week, with
photos of all the key screw-ups...it's going to run hundreds of pages,
easy.


Just think, eventually there will be mini-series and action movies!
  #22  
Old October 22nd 07, 08:59 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
BradGuth
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Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

On Oct 17, 6:43 pm, robert casey wrote:
Technically it's still half day and half night, irrespective of the
length of the day, and the driving technology is energy storage for
lighting. However, I think they were relying on the polar crater thing.


I hate to have to build a storage system that can run lights bright
enough to grow plants. It takes a lot of light to drive photosynthesis,
much more than that needed for human color eyesight. Thus the
requirement that the selected farm plants not mind the long days and
nights. Maybe something from the Arctic regions, though I can't think
of anything up there that anyone eats.


Artificial illumination is not a problem, not in the least bit.

Of something orbiting within the moon's L1 is nearly always getting
solar illuminated, and even earthshine is offering an impressive
amount of those secondary/recoil photons.
- Brad Guth -

  #23  
Old October 22nd 07, 09:04 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
BradGuth
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Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

On Oct 17, 6:43 pm, robert casey wrote:
Technically it's still half day and half night, irrespective of the
length of the day, and the driving technology is energy storage for
lighting. However, I think they were relying on the polar crater thing.


I hate to have to build a storage system that can run lights bright
enough to grow plants. It takes a lot of light to drive photosynthesis,
much more than that needed for human color eyesight. Thus the
requirement that the selected farm plants not mind the long days and
nights. Maybe something from the Arctic regions, though I can't think
of anything up there that anyone eats.


Artificial illumination for accommodating whatever greenhouse plants
is not a problem, not in the least bit.

Of something orbiting within the moon's L1 is nearly always getting
itself rather nicely solar illuminated, and even earthshine is
offering an impressive amount of those secondary/recoil photons. If
you can't figure out how to sufficiently illuminate whatever while in
lunar nighttime, then you should go right back to bed and stay there.
- Brad Guth -

  #24  
Old October 22nd 07, 09:07 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
BradGuth
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Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

On Oct 17, 8:07 pm, Joe Strout wrote:
In article ,
robert casey wrote:



Technically it's still half day and half night, irrespective of the
length of the day, and the driving technology is energy storage for
lighting. However, I think they were relying on the polar crater thing.


I hate to have to build a storage system that can run lights bright
enough to grow plants.


We'll get somebody else, then.

Seriously though, there are a lot of ways to skin that cat, and it's
something we're going to need to solve sooner or later anyway.
Basically you can divide them into two categories: storage, and
continuous production. Under storage we have lots of options, ranging
from batteries to flywheels to fuel cells. Under continuous production
there are nuclear reactors, beamed power, and rotating solar towers
positioned on some peak of eternal light.

It takes a lot of light to drive photosynthesis,
much more than that needed for human color eyesight. Thus the
requirement that the selected farm plants not mind the long days and
nights. Maybe something from the Arctic regions, though I can't think
of anything up there that anyone eats.


That's not a requirement, that's a design decision you've made. Not one
I would agree with, myself.

Given the cost of these adventures, and the shortness of the LEO day, it
would be a no brainer to get this stuff going on the ISS, particularly
since we have very little experience with 0 g plant growing techniques.


The Moon does have some gravity, about 1/6 of Earth's. Probably enough
for growing plants to find the "up" and "down" directions.


Yes, but the quote you quoted is talking about LEO, not the Moon.

The problem I have with all this is the hypocrisy - they haven't even
put much effort into the ground based simulations, the hydroponic earth
homes and the small scale closed ecological life support system tests.


I wouldn't expect that NASA would have lunar farms grow all the food for
the astronauts, at least in the beginning. Most of the food would be
the same stuff they eat on the ISS or shuttle, and the farm plants
provide a little supplementary fresh veggies to add to the dinner.


Maybe, but both you and the guy you're replying to (you failed to
attribute the quoted material) seem to be ignorant of the work NASA has
done on exactly this. See
http://lifesci3.arc.nasa.gov/SpaceSettlement/designer/regen.html for
example. There's also some more recent work using LEDs or sulfur
microwave lamps whose spectra are tuned to the absorption spectrum of
the plants being grown. It's a pretty active area, and yes, real
full-up growth chambers have been operated for extended periods on Earth.

It's probably easier to plan for 1/6 gravity than it would be for 0 g.


True.

Should be something a university could throw together to simulate
everything except the gravity field.


We've been there, done that. There's really no reason to think that
plants are going to grow much differently in 1/6 g, at least at first.
In the long run, after genetic tinkering or selective breeding, we might
develop lunar-adapted strains of crops that spend less energy supporting
their weight and put more into the useful parts. But initially,
anything that grows well in a growth chamber here should be fine on the
Moon.

Best,
- Joe

--
"Polywell" fusion -- an approach to nuclear fusion that might actually work.
Learn more and discuss via: http://www.strout.net/info/science/polywell/


robert casey has always been a devoit naysayer. In other words, a
lost cause.
- Brad Guth -

  #25  
Old October 22nd 07, 09:10 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history,sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.station
BradGuth
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Default Keith Cowing Thinks NASA Will Grow Plants on the Moon

On Oct 17, 7:57 pm, Joe Strout wrote:
In article ,
robert casey wrote:

Well, growing plants would help reduce CO2 and also provide some veggies
for dinner.


It's also surprisingly good for morale.

Assuming that the selected plants don't mind 15 day periods
of daylight and 15 days of darkness.


Or that you grow them under artificial lights, of course.


Perhaps a good robust crop of hemp/pot (aka BC Bud) would survive.
- Brad Guth -

 




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