President Ron Paul might let the Space Shuttle flying beyond 2010. :-)

Its sad a flying enterprise would of been a wonderful boost for NASA,
who tossed out a great PR bonanza.

In dreamland enterprise could be refitted for cargo service only. But
no money.

Program will end after next accident

There are a lot of things that were never installed on Enterprise. To me
that means that there would be a lot of things that don't have to be
removed for it to evolve into Orbiter version 1.2

--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @
--

Damon Hill wrote:

Craig Fink wrote in
:

Hopefully, President Ron Paul would privatize the Space Shuttle
Program.

Private Enterprise, first thing I'd do after purchasing Enterprise on
E-Bay would be to move the LOX, LH2 lines inside the Orbiter.


They were probably never installed on Enterprise, since it only
flew drop tests.

True, they would have to come out of the Orbiter somewhere. Weight isn't
much of an issue, volume might be. Example, the long LOX line is already
taken to Orbit. It's just thrown away with the External Tank. Moving it
into the Orbiter would allow Version 1.2 Enterprise to keep and use all the
excess LOX if the line is in the Orbiter. Connecting to the Tank as close
to the nose as possible. The LOX line has just become a large tank after ET
separation.

The next question might be, what would I do with all the extra LOX. Well the
obvious, get rid of the much more "dangerous" OMS and RCS propellent. Both
the LOX line and LH2 line can be thought of as tanks after ET separation,
they are now dual use. Replacing the OMS engines and RCS jets with
Oxygen/Hydrogen burning engines would simplify operations and increase
performance. The Ideal OMS engines would be one that burns both liquids and
gaseous propellants. Dual mode RCS jets might also be nice too. Ideally,
the engines would have highly variable mixture ratios, so that any excess
LOX or excess LH2, can be fed through the engines as propellant. LOX would
lower the ISP/increase thrust of these engine, but LH2 would increase the
ISP/decrease thrust. At MECO, the ratio of LOX and LH2 is dependant on what
happened during ascent, but the excess of LOX or LH2 is still useful mass
as propellant. Dual mode, High thrust liquid/Low thrust gaseous, variable
mixture ratio. Or, would that be call Tri mode?

The length or volume of the LH2 line is another issue that I think would fit
nicely into an evolution of the Shuttle system into a much more
useful/cheaper vehicle that Private Enterprise would find profitable.

--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @
--

Brian Gaff wrote:

Erm, but they have to come out some place and they are rather big and
weighty and um cold...

It is only being stored at the Smithsonian, they would probably want one of
the Orbiters that actually flew in space when they are retired in 2010, or
possibly 202? if Ron Paul is elected President.

Ron Paul even wants to privatize the Post Office, he truely believes, as I
do, that the market place is where efficiency and innovation takes place. A
free market as opposed to a highly regulated one. Regulated markets when
combined with lobbying yields high profits for those who buy the
regulations, in favor of inefficiency, delay or suppressed innovation,
limited competition, and of course higher cost to the consumer.

Yes, regulation is supposed to be for "safety" of the consumer, but this
isn't what is happening here in the USA. Ron Paul is correct, "safety"
issues for consumers would be better and more efficient in the private
sector. Look at what the FDA has done to our medical care, dying people
cannot take advantage of experimental medical care (if they choose to) that
might (or might not) save their lives (or die early). US manufactured drugs
cannot be re-imported to the United States, even though these "regulated"
companies are willing to sell their product at a much lower price in
Canada, for example. The FDA is responsible for much of the high cost of
medical care in the US, adding more regulation or government control isn't
the solution, it's the problem.

Hillary talks about change, but in reality, not nearly as much change as Ron
Paul is talking about. If you really what a change in our government, Ron
Paul is the logical choice. Hillary is a war monger compared to Ron Paul.
Hillary is an extreme Socialist compared to Ron Paul. Hillary is an extreme
flip/flopper compared to Ron Paul.

When elected, President Ron Paul, would want to privatize the Post Office,
FDA, ... and likely, most, if not all of NASA. He understands it took US
the better part of a century to get to the mess we are in, starting with
the Sixteenth Amendment, which he wants to repeal. He understands that a
transition doesn't happen overnight.

Transitioning NASA from a Communist economic model to a Capitalist economic
model would be good for America, good for innovation, and bring space
flight costs down. It would start a much bigger Space revolution than the
Internet revolution is. The Internet revolution occurred as fast as it did,
not because of regulation, but because it is a "free" market. That is why
Ron Paul votes against Internet regulation even if it is called "net
neutrality".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c76yeqQY2ms

Join the rEVOLution, http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @
--

Skylon wrote:

On Sep 15, 7:24 pm, Craig Fink wrote:
Hopefully, President Ron Paul would privatize the Space Shuttle Program.

Private Enterprise, first thing I'd do after purchasing Enterprise on
E-Bay would be to move the LOX, LH2 lines inside the Orbiter.

--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

You realize in order to purchase something on Ebay it must first be up
for auction on Ebay?

And last I checked, the Smithsonian didn't seem to be in any rush to
sell Enterprise.

Craig Fink wrote:
Example, the long LOX line is already
taken to Orbit. It's just thrown away with the External Tank. Moving it
into the Orbiter would allow Version 1.2 Enterprise to keep and use all the
excess LOX if the line is in the Orbiter.

Note quite. The ET is not yet in a stable orbit. After the shuttle has
ditched the ET, it uses its OMS engines to complete acceleration to a
proper orbit (including circularising the orbit).

Moving anything from ET to shuttle would mean that extra fuel is needed
to haul that mass between the time ET is shed to final orbit (as well as
extra fuel to decelerate shuttle for de-orbit)

The smart thing would have been to put all external protuberances inside
the ET tank (even if the ET ends up having a smooth bulge in its shape.).

Or, prior to spraying on the foam, add an aerodynamic carbon fibre
fairing over the lines attached to the ET wall. And then spray foam over
the ET, including the carbon fairing. (and you could also spray foam
inside the fairing to add greater insulation as well as mechanical
support of the fairing.).


Another possibility would have been to run the lines on the other side
of the ET and *somehow* make then cut across at the point when they need
to connect to the shuttle.

Joseph Nebus wrote:

(Derek Lyons) writes:

Craig Fink wrote:

Private Enterprise, first thing I'd do after purchasing Enterprise on
E-Bay would be to move the LOX, LH2 lines inside the Orbiter.

And when (are where) will you get the billions to finish Enterprise
(it's virtually a mockup and always has been), and build out all the
required infrastructure?

Why, Private Enterprise, of course. He just *said*. There'll
be profits flowing like tap water and free lollipops at the price the
market will bear for all the good little libertarian spammers too.


I think your talking about all the other candidates who like to hand out
free stuff.

Ron Paul is all about Freedom, Liberty, the Constitution. Returning to the
Rule of Law, instead of the Rule of Man. He may want to eliminate all the
un-constitutional Federal agencies and programs. But, he also understand
it's taken fifty+ years to get to where we are. That yanking the rug out
isn't good for the country. Transitioning NASA from a Communist Economic
model to a Capitalist or "Free Market" Economy could actually be good for
manned space flight.

How would that be done? Well, Russia seems to be gaining momentum in manned
space flight. They privatized their space program, they accept paying
customers to ride on their vehicle, prices are actually going up. How do we
transition? Russia is poised to be a true powerhouse in space by the time
our Communist leaning space program get back to the Moon.

Cracks are beginning to appear in the Main Stream Media's wall of silence
about Ron Paul are beginning to appear...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=I8PwoV4_Ds0
Carlson Tucker was actually allowed to give a rather good report on Ron
Paul, without all the media buzz words, dark horse, cannot win, zero
chance, Ross Perot, Ralph Nader, Howard Dean, ...

Ron Paul Who? If you really want a nation that follows the Constitution,
want your own Representative or Senator to actually read the Constitution
and understand it. To make changes to it by Amending it, instead of
amending the dictionary, now is your opportunity. Vote now, skip lunch,
it'll be good for your health. Vote with your lunch money, it'll be good
for the nation. Join the Ron Paul rEVOLution, and feel good about your
choices in the next election.

https://www.ronpaul2008.com/donate/

Privatize the Space Station! :-)
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:22:44 -0500, Craig Fink
puked:

How would that be done? Well, Russia seems to be gaining momentum in manned
space flight. They privatized their space program, they accept paying
customers to ride on their vehicle, prices are actually going up.

This is great, but the US would have to seriously revamp its
litigation crazy mentality before we'd start doing this. Imagine a
disaster with a private citizen aboard. Not only would his loved ones
sue, but also everyone standing in line to go and those that already
went.

I'm thinking Russia doesn't put up with that crap...

--
lab~rat :-)
Stupid humans...

lab~rat :-) gebruikte zijn klavier om te schrijven :
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:22:44 -0500, Craig Fink
puked:

How would that be done? Well, Russia seems to be gaining momentum in manned
space flight. They privatized their space program, they accept paying
customers to ride on their vehicle, prices are actually going up.

This is great, but the US would have to seriously revamp its
litigation crazy mentality before we'd start doing this. Imagine a
disaster with a private citizen aboard. Not only would his loved ones
sue, but also everyone standing in line to go and those that already
went.

I'm thinking Russia doesn't put up with that crap...

I thinkt the russians have somthing in their commercial aggreement a
line: "In case of a disater and/or death, we cannot be held
responsible" .

André

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:42:22 +0200, AndrŽ, PE1PQX
puked:

lab~rat :-) gebruikte zijn klavier om te schrijven :
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:22:44 -0500, Craig Fink
puked:

How would that be done? Well, Russia seems to be gaining momentum in manned
space flight. They privatized their space program, they accept paying
customers to ride on their vehicle, prices are actually going up.

This is great, but the US would have to seriously revamp its
litigation crazy mentality before we'd start doing this. Imagine a
disaster with a private citizen aboard. Not only would his loved ones
sue, but also everyone standing in line to go and those that already
went.

I'm thinking Russia doesn't put up with that crap...

I thinkt the russians have somthing in their commercial aggreement a
line: "In case of a disater and/or death, we cannot be held
responsible" .

For the record, that has never stopped anyone from trying to sue in
the past. I'm sure that the agreement for space travel has that
language, but for some reason folks over here seem to think that kind
of legalese is unenforceable. And it's probably because people get
paid when they sue...

--
lab~rat :-)
Stupid humans...

lab~rat :-) had uiteengezet :
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 19:42:22 +0200, Andr´, PE1PQX
puked:

lab~rat :-) gebruikte zijn klavier om te schrijven :
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:22:44 -0500, Craig Fink
puked:

This is great, but the US would have to seriously revamp its
litigation crazy mentality before we'd start doing this. Imagine a
disaster with a private citizen aboard. Not only would his loved ones
sue, but also everyone standing in line to go and those that already
went.

I'm thinking Russia doesn't put up with that crap...

I thinkt the russians have somthing in their commercial aggreement a
line: "In case of a disater and/or death, we cannot be held
responsible" .

For the record, that has never stopped anyone from trying to sue in
the past. I'm sure that the agreement for space travel has that
language, but for some reason folks over here seem to think that kind
of legalese is unenforceable. And it's probably because people get
paid when they sue...

Conclusion: it's the money....