Boeing pilots to crew capsule

Surprised nobody has raised this one yet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14417634

which in some way *really* brings home the changes that
are going on. I expect they will turn out to be ex-military
fast jet jockeys, so no change in that respect...

On 08/06/2011 03:12 PM, Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
Surprised nobody has raised this one yet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14417634

which in some way *really* brings home the changes that
are going on. I expect they will turn out to be ex-military
fast jet jockeys, so no change in that respect...

Almost certainly the initial cadre will be mostly former NASA astronauts.

"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
On 08/06/2011 03:12 PM, Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
Surprised nobody has raised this one yet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14417634

which in some way *really* brings home the changes that
are going on. I expect they will turn out to be ex-military
fast jet jockeys, so no change in that respect...

Almost certainly the initial cadre will be mostly former NASA astronauts.

Don't count NASA out of the Boeing vehicle just yet: there was a presser
with the CCDev 2 participants prior to STS-134, and Boeing's rep indicated
that NASA astronauts would be flying on some of the test missions. At least
one mission would have an all-NASA crew.

Matt Wiser wrote:


"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
On 08/06/2011 03:12 PM, Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
Surprised nobody has raised this one yet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14417634

which in some way *really* brings home the changes that
are going on. I expect they will turn out to be ex-military
fast jet jockeys, so no change in that respect...

Almost certainly the initial cadre will be mostly former NASA astronauts.

Don't count NASA out of the Boeing vehicle just yet: there was a presser
with the CCDev 2 participants prior to STS-134, and Boeing's rep indicated
that NASA astronauts would be flying on some of the test missions. At least
one mission would have an all-NASA crew.

The report indicates that the first manned test flight will be an
all-Boeing crew (i.e., both of them). Secondly,
''Boeing says the two pilots it plans to use on the manned mission in
2015 will emerge from a selection process that is already under way.

"We're actually interviewing now for the first one," said Mr Elbon. "I
would like to get one on board so that they can be part of the design
process and influence it from an operator's perspective." ''

Do Boeing already employ ex-Nasa astronauts in a flying capacity?

Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
Surprised nobody has raised this one yet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14417634

which in some way *really* brings home the changes that
are going on. I expect they will turn out to be ex-military
fast jet jockeys, so no change in that respect...

Yes, but will they barrel roll (chandell? sp) the thing on re-entry?-)

rick jones
--
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Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?

On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 23:29:26 +0000, Rick Jones wrote:

Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
Surprised nobody has raised this one yet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14417634

which in some way *really* brings home the changes that are going on.
I expect they will turn out to be ex-military fast jet jockeys, so no
change in that respect...

Yes, but will they barrel roll (chandell? sp) the thing on re-entry?-)

A Barrel Roll is not a Chandelle.
But, yes, as a matter of fact, they will.
You see - even a shape like an Apollo capsule (Or Gemini, for that matter)
develops lift at the hypersonic speeds that it is traveling at in the
upper atmosphere. (This was, in fact, used by Apollo during reentry
to increase its time in the upper atmosphere and reduce deceleration
to tolerable levels for the Lunar flights.)
In order to cancel out this lift, and keep the capsule on course to the
recovery area, it rolls while entering so that the course changes
caused by the capsule's aerodynamic lift is canceled out.

--
Pete Stickney
Failure is not an option
It comes bundled with the system

On 8/7/2011 6:41 PM, Peter Stickney wrote:

A Barrel Roll is not a Chandelle.
But, yes, as a matter of fact, they will.
You see - even a shape like an Apollo capsule (Or Gemini, for that matter)
develops lift at the hypersonic speeds that it is traveling at in the
upper atmosphere. (This was, in fact, used by Apollo during reentry
to increase its time in the upper atmosphere and reduce deceleration
to tolerable levels for the Lunar flights.)
In order to cancel out this lift, and keep the capsule on course to the
recovery area, it rolls while entering so that the course changes
caused by the capsule's aerodynamic lift is canceled out.

Well, at least on Apollo (if not Gemini, although it did pioneer the
first lifting reentries), you wanted to keep that lift to decrease entry
G's, so the thing didn't roll 360 degrees on its axis on the way in, and
the crew stayed primarily heads-down, as the heads-up side of the
heatshield generated lift by hitting the atmosphere at an angle and
acting like a inclined airfoil that traded velocity for lift:
http://galaxywire.net/wp-content/upl...-space-art.jpg
Same goes for Soyuz; you roll both spacecraft to the side some to adjust
your lift and cross-range heading.
Check out the ablation pattern on Apollo heatshields in museums and note
that the greatest burn is slightly off-center towards the crew's feet side.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7gD73enqswE/SU...M/IMG_6368.JPG
In the case of the Soyuz LOK equivalent of the Apollo CSM, the smaller
heatshield diameter meant that its thickness got very asymmetrical to
handle the higher heat loads towards the bottom side, being around twice
as thick as the side towards the crew's heads
You use complete axis rolls in the case of a spacecraft designed for a
lifting reentry when it defaults to a ballistic reentry, like several
Soyuz have done.
Early on in the Apollo program, the idea was to have the CM skip out of
the atmosphere on the way back from the Moon, but that was later
scrapped in favor of it doing a long shallow reentry with a climb in it
that stayed inside of the atmosphere by using its reentry lift maneuver.
The Soviet Zond (the lunar-loop version of the Soyuz) did actually do
that during reentry, hitting the atmosphere over Antarctica and
skipping clean back out to descend in the Indian Ocean with its second
atmospheric encounter.
If you wanted it to descend inside the Soviet Union for a ground
landing, it had to hit the atmosphere over North America first, which
I'm sure gave the NORAD boys some interesting thoughts as it showed up
on their radar.

Pat

Peter Stickney wrote:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2011 23:29:26 +0000, Rick Jones wrote:

Fevric J. Glandules wrote:
Surprised nobody has raised this one yet:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14417634

which in some way *really* brings home the changes that are going on.
I expect they will turn out to be ex-military fast jet jockeys, so no
change in that respect...

Yes, but will they barrel roll (chandell? sp) the thing on re-entry?-)

A Barrel Roll is not a Chandelle.

I was trying to recall the name of the manoever the Boeing test pilot
made with the 707 proto. Not that I would necessarily know one from
the other on sight, but I mistakenly recalled that what most people
called it wasn't what he did. Anyhow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_...he_barrel_roll

rick jones
--
I don't interest myself in "why". I think more often in terms of
"when", sometimes "where"; always "how much." - Joubert
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...