Gravitation and Maxwell's Electrodynamics, BOUNDARY CONDITIONS

"sean" wrote in message
m...
Craig Markwardt wrote in message
...
(sean) writes:
[ ... ]

The original point was that I responded to Davids claim that resonance
was not possible described as a wave phenomena in refernce of course

I can't find an example where David says this.
Ill look again but he says that resonance can only be exhibited by a
particle

Waves require a continuous medium and a propagation direction. A
pendulum-like swing embodies neither. The fact that the tha language
of *oscillations* can be used to describe waves and resonance does not
mean that they are identical.


Thats a fair point but you say that I say that waves and resonance are
identical. Thats misquoting me because my argument is that waves "in a
medium" ,contained if neccesary, exhibit resonance. Did I say or do
you think I say that waves are identical to resonance? Why would I
mean that? Of course I realize that waves on there own arent
resonance.


"sean" wrote in message
om...
...
Secondly I thought about it and actually a medium can resonate and
standing nodes of maxima CAN occur in our observable world in water or
etc in open uncontained systems . This can be done simply by having 2
identical energy sources creating waves and at the point or in the
region between the two sources there are standing waves produced
| | |

A | | | B

| | |

Above A and B are vibrating sources in an open uncontained medium and
the vertical lines denote maxima where overlapping waves create
standing waves .
This is seen in water tanks etc experiments and shows how classical
waves can resonate in an open system and create maxima (in this case
bands rather than nodes)
So theoretically in a open infinite universe the aethger medium could
resonate and nodes of maxima would be possible.

... above I have shown
that the medium does not need to be contained to resonate and create
maxima. Everyday examples in water and air show how open systems of
mediums of homogenous density CAN resonate and can produce nodes of
maxima.


... do you agree that
a medium can resonate in an open system. as I have shown above?

"George Dishman" wrote in message ...
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message
om...
"George Dishman" wrote in message
...
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message
om...

snip to relevant text

1. A capacitive parametric resonance.
--------------------------------------
The electron, proton and space between them is the condenser.
Thus at each complete turnover of an electron, the exterior
electric field of a wave renders parametric change of a capacitor
CAPACITANCE of Atom.

Please show your calculation for the capacitance for
an isolated atom. Please then show how you derive your
equation for the dependence of the capacitance on the
strength of the electric field.

It can be made by a rather refined method in zero approach.
You evaluate capacity of a spatial figure of the relevant
geometry of allocation of a density of charge of electron cloud
of a concrete electron concerning a core.
Evaluation of differential capacity in first and other
orders I abandon on your discretion. ;-)

Now Aleksandr, I answered your questions on RC oscillators.

You are the skilled and interesting interlocutor.
Thanks for the help.

This is your analogy so it is up to you to present it.

The conceptual systems of physical ideas are a main core
of physical sciences.

I shall issue to you other analogy from a gravitation.
Craig Markwardt wrote in Message:
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=on...ysics.wisc.edu

" 3. Certain well known orbital configurations. Bodies with orbital
radii that have integer ratios, which would normally not exert a
large gravitational force on each other, become coupled because
of repeated interactions. "

ADS Astronomy Abstract Service
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abstract_service.html
==============================
Title:
On the origin of commensurabilities in the solar system-I.
The tidal hypothesis
Authors:
Dermott, S. F.
Journal:
Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 141, p.349
Publication Date:
00/1968
Origin:
ADS
Bibliographic Code:
1968MNRAS.141..349D

================================================== =========
Title:
On the origin of commensurabilities in the solar system-II.
The orbital period relation
Authors:
Dermott, S. F.
Journal:
Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 141, p.363
Publication Date:
00/1968
Origin:
ADS
Bibliographic Code:
1968MNRAS.141..363D

You
of all people should realise that without the maths to back
them up, words carry little substance in scientific circles.

The conceptual systems of physical ideas are a main core
of physical sciences. The mathematical statement of
conceptual system of physical ideas is rather relevant,
but minor aspect of physical science. The mathematical
statement of conceptual system of physical ideas is
run-down of these ideas on the other language.
The horse should be at the front carts, but we have major
problems, if the horse jolts a cart behind. The schizophrenia
is inadequate reflection of a reality. From an intermixture
of true and error ideas it is possible to receive any effect
and result. This history has a place in GR. ;-)

2. Inductive parametric resonance.
--------------------------------------
In system an electron and core, the motion of an electron is
the loop of an electric current.
Thus, the electron, moving on a closed path, can be submitted
as INDUCTANCE. Thus at each complete turnover of an electron,
the exterior magnetic field of a wave renders parametric change
of INDUCTANCE of Atom.

Please show your calculation for the inductance for
an isolated atom. Please then show how you derive your
equation for the dependence of the inductance on the
strength of the magnetic field.

It can be made by a rather refined method in zero approach.
You evaluate inductance of a spatial figure of the relevant
geometry of allocation of a current density for electron cloud
of a concrete electron concerning a core.
Evaluation differential inductance in first and other orders
I abandon on your discretion. ;-)

Again, this is your idea, you can't expect others
to create it for you.

It is my innermost desire. Do not discourage me... ;-)


3. Complex parametric resonance of Atom.
--------------------------------------
The integrated Inductive parametric resonance and Capacitive
parametric resonance is the mechanism of a complex parametric
resonance of Atom.

Inductive component of a complex parametric resonance and
Capacitive component of a complex parametric resonance can be
in "phase", in "antiphase" or disbalanced state.

Please demonstrate how this is derived from your results
for points 1. and 2.

At first we should complete arguing 1. and 2.,
and then we can advance further. :-(

Agreed, but to do that you will need to present
something that can be argued.

It is my innermost desire. Do not discourage me... ;-)

"George Dishman" wrote in message ...
"sean" wrote in message
m...
Craig Markwardt wrote in message
...
(sean) writes:
[ ... ]

The original point was that I responded to Davids claim that resonance
was not possible described as a wave phenomena in refernce of course

I can't find an example where David says this.
Ill look again but he says that resonance can only be exhibited by a
particle

Waves require a continuous medium and a propagation direction. A
pendulum-like swing embodies neither. The fact that the tha language
of *oscillations* can be used to describe waves and resonance does not
mean that they are identical.


Thats a fair point but you say that I say that waves and resonance are
identical. Thats misquoting me because my argument is that waves "in a
medium" ,contained if neccesary, exhibit resonance. Did I say or do
you think I say that waves are identical to resonance? Why would I
mean that? Of course I realize that waves on there own arent
resonance.


"sean" wrote in message
om...
..
Secondly I thought about it and actually a medium can resonate and
standing nodes of maxima CAN occur in our observable world in water or
etc in open uncontained systems . This can be done simply by having 2
identical energy sources creating waves and at the point or in the
region between the two sources there are standing waves produced
| | |

A | | | B

| | |

Above A and B are vibrating sources in an open uncontained medium and
the vertical lines denote maxima where overlapping waves create
standing waves .
This is seen in water tanks etc experiments and shows how classical
waves can resonate in an open system and create maxima (in this case
bands rather than nodes)
So theoretically in a open infinite universe the aethger medium could
resonate and nodes of maxima would be possible.

... above I have shown
that the medium does not need to be contained to resonate and create
maxima. Everyday examples in water and air show how open systems of
mediums of homogenous density CAN resonate and can produce nodes of
maxima.


... do you agree that
a medium can resonate in an open system. as I have shown above?


Hi George
I think you fell for Craigs trap there too . Notice he says that I say
that waves are resonances. Note that my quote has waves ,(from a
energy source) IN A MEDIUM can exhibit resonance. Wait here I will say
it again .... Waves in a medium can exhibit resonance. In other words
I did not say waves are resonance. Those are two seperate words (waves
, resonance) and he was trying to make it look like I thought that
waves and resonance were essentially the same thing. That they meant
the same thing. IF on the other hand he meant that quote above then I
still stand by it. I have seen in water two sources vibrating that
produce standing waves or maxima at a point between the two sources.
That to me is resonance. Furthermore I am sure that if a extra driving
force was added at a similar frequency those maxima would increase in
amplitude. That fuylfils the textbook definition of resonance. But
dont be mistaken , Craig was trying to insinuate that I thought that
the words waves and resonance both meant the same thing. I dont and I
have never said that. I know they are different meanings but I also
know that waves in a medium can exhibit resonance.
Sean

"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message
om...
"George Dishman" wrote in message
...

You
of all people should realise that without the maths to back
them up, words carry little substance in scientific circles.

The conceptual systems of physical ideas are a main core
of physical sciences. The mathematical statement of
conceptual system of physical ideas is rather relevant,
but minor aspect of physical science.

There we differ. IMHO, the mathematical statement
is paramount since only that allows quantitative
predictions. The accompanying model makes it easier
to see how apply the theory is any given situation
but that is all.

Again, this is your idea, you can't expect others
to create it for you.

It is my innermost desire. Do not discourage me... ;-)

I wouldn't do that, but there is nothing for me
to add at this stage. Good luck with your quest.

George

"sean" wrote in message
om...
"George Dishman" wrote in message
...
"sean" wrote in message
m...
Craig Markwardt wrote in message
...
(sean) writes:
[ ... ]

The original point was that I responded to Davids claim that
resonance
was not possible described as a wave phenomena in refernce of
course

I can't find an example where David says this.
Ill look again but he says that resonance can only be exhibited by a
particle

Waves require a continuous medium and a propagation direction. A
pendulum-like swing embodies neither. The fact that the tha
language
of *oscillations* can be used to describe waves and resonance does
not
mean that they are identical.


Thats a fair point but you say that I say that waves and resonance are
identical. Thats misquoting me because my argument is that waves "in a
medium" ,contained if neccesary, exhibit resonance. Did I say or do
you think I say that waves are identical to resonance? Why would I
mean that? Of course I realize that waves on there own arent
resonance.


"sean" wrote in message
om...
..
Secondly I thought about it and actually a medium can resonate and
standing nodes of maxima CAN occur in our observable world in water or
etc in open uncontained systems . This can be done simply by having 2
identical energy sources creating waves and at the point or in the
region between the two sources there are standing waves produced
| | |

A | | | B

| | |

Above A and B are vibrating sources in an open uncontained medium and
the vertical lines denote maxima where overlapping waves create
standing waves .
This is seen in water tanks etc experiments and shows how classical
waves can resonate in an open system and create maxima (in this case
bands rather than nodes)
So theoretically in a open infinite universe the aethger medium could
resonate and nodes of maxima would be possible.

... above I have shown
that the medium does not need to be contained to resonate and create
maxima. Everyday examples in water and air show how open systems of
mediums of homogenous density CAN resonate and can produce nodes of
maxima.


... do you agree that
a medium can resonate in an open system. as I have shown above?


Hi George
I think you fell for Craigs trap there too . Notice he says that I say
that waves are resonances. Note that my quote has waves ,(from a
energy source) IN A MEDIUM can exhibit resonance. Wait here I will say
it again .... Waves in a medium can exhibit resonance. In other words
I did not say waves are resonance. Those are two seperate words (waves
, resonance) and he was trying to make it look like I thought that
waves and resonance were essentially the same thing.

No, as I read what he said, he was trying to point out that it
takes more than just waves in a medium to exhibit resonance.

That they meant
the same thing. IF on the other hand he meant that quote above then I
still stand by it. I have seen in water two sources vibrating that
produce standing waves or maxima at a point between the two sources.
That to me is resonance.

And that is exactly the point. To everyone else that is _not_
resonance, it is only intereference. The best example of resonance
for you to consider is the child on a swing. If you want the child
to go high in the air, you could just push and hold him there. It
is a lot easier to give a small push in time with each swing and
gradually build the amplitude. It is the ability to generate a large
amplitude from a small force by accumulating the energy in the
system that is the phenomenon known as resonance. Whether a
particular example makes use of waves or not is entirely beside the
point, and whther or not a wave system exhibits nodes or maxima is
also completely irrelevant.

Furthermore I am sure that if a extra driving
force was added at a similar frequency those maxima would increase in
amplitude. That fuylfils the textbook definition of resonance. But
dont be mistaken , Craig was trying to insinuate that I thought that
the words waves and resonance both meant the same thing. I dont and I
have never said that. I know they are different meanings but I also
know that waves in a medium can exhibit resonance.

I don't think he was suggesting you were saying they were the
same though I can see how you would get that impression. I think
he was saying that although waves and maxima are involved in some
examples of resonance, they are not enough on their own to
constitute resonance.

However, the reason I juxtaposed your quotes is that in the
first you say:

"my argument is that waves 'in a medium' ,contained if neccesary,
exhibit resonance." and "Of course I realize that waves on there
own arent resonance."

yet you had previously said:

"This ... shows how classical waves can resonate in an open system
and create maxima (in this case bands rather than nodes)"

"in a open infinite universe the aethger medium could resonate and
nodes of maxima would be possible."

"above I have shown that the medium does not need to be contained
to resonate and create maxima."

"do you agree that a medium can resonate in an open system. as I
have shown above?"

Clearly you had been arguing that waves on their own could exhibit
resonance, and as far as I can see you are still doing so. As I
have said before, the problem is not your grasp of the physics,
just your understanding of the terminology. Adopting the same
meaning for the word as everyone else will simply help you
communicate.

George

"George Dishman" wrote in message ...
"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message
om...
"George Dishman" wrote in message
...

You
of all people should realise that without the maths to back
them up, words carry little substance in scientific circles.

The conceptual systems of physical ideas are a main core
of physical sciences. The mathematical statement of
conceptual system of physical ideas is rather relevant,
but minor aspect of physical science.

There we differ. IMHO, the mathematical statement
is paramount since only that allows quantitative
predictions. The accompanying model makes it easier
to see how apply the theory is any given situation
but that is all.

My English is rather far from perfection. :-(

Whether you can explain to the participants (David A. Smith)
of a controversy general principles of an impedance matching
of a "generator" and a "loading"?

["generator"] --- ["loading"]


space, parabolic RESISTOR or BLACK BODY or
antenna ("generator") --- "loading"


A BLACK BODY as the receiver of microwave radiation.
================================================== ===

-
-
- parabolic antenna
-
- \
- \ ----------
- \ [ ] -"loading"
- \ [ ] BLACK BODY or
- ) )--- ] " microwave receiver "
- / [ ]
- / [ ]
- / ----------
- /
-
-
-
- microwave
- radiation


THE BOLOMETRIC RECEIVER.
================================================== ===
-
-
- parabolic antenna
-
- \
- \
- \
- \ RESISTOR or BLACK BODY or
- ) )------| " microwave receiver "
- / |
- / |-|
- / | | -"loading"
- / | | RESISTOR
- |-|
- |
- |
- microwave |
- radiation === Ground return circuit

This diagram is easier than the diagram of the elementary
detecting radio receiver, here detector is the resistor.

PARADOX. Contrary to the conventional judgement
the pure RESISTANCE is not a linear device from a physical
point of view, since the pure RESISTANCE transmutes energy
of currents of any frequencies into heat.

---------------------------------------------------------
Thus RESISTOR is the nonlinear transformer
of electromagnetic energy similar to an ideal BLACK BODY.
---------------------------------------------------------

From other ONLY MATHEMATICAL point of view, the pure
RESISTANCE enters inside of the equations as a constant,
i.e. the pure RESISTANCE is a LINEAR device.

---------------------------------------------------------
Thus RESISTOR is the a LINEAR device. ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------

Aleksandr


Again, this is your idea, you can't expect others
to create it for you.

It is my innermost desire. Do not discourage me... ;-)

I wouldn't do that, but there is nothing for me
to add at this stage. Good luck with your quest.

George

\(formerly\)" dlzc1.cox@net wrote in message news:pKN8b.55909$Qy4.42357@fed1read05...
[snip]
Note, Alexsandr claims that beginnign and end of light's life are boundary
conditions to a wave equation.

" beginnign and end of light's life are boundary
conditions to a wave equation. "

Your statement does not correspond to a real. (((:-(

The static boundary conditions
================================================== ==========

1. The static boundary conditions represent antenna devices.
The antenna devices are reversible linear devices, which one
serve for radiation or absorption of electromagnetic radiation.
(The runway of an aerodrome is analog of the antenna somewhat.)

The antennas are devices matching "impedance" "free" "non-material"
"space" with "impedance" of the material receiver or "impedance"
of the material transmitter. : ()

-
- reversible device
- parabolic antenna
-
- \
- \ ----------
- \ [ ]
- \ [ ] " microwave receiver "
- ) )--- ] or
- / [ ] " microwave GENERATOR "
- / [ ]
- / ----------
- /
-
-
-
- microwave
- radiation

================================================== ====
What do you know about general principles
of an impedance matching of "generator" and "loading"?
================================================== ====

Dynamic boundary conditions and
electrically nonlinear material devices.
================================================== ==========
2. Contrary to your statement:

" beginnign and end of light's life are boundary
conditions to a wave equation. "

beginnign and end of light's life are "nonlinear processes"
inside of the material receiver or of the material transmitter.
: ()

A BLACK BODY as the receiver of microwave radiation.
================================================== ===

-
-
- parabolic antenna
-
- \
- \ ----------
- \ [ ] -"loading"
- \ [ ] BLACK BODY or
- ) )--- ] " microwave receiver "
- / [ ]
- / [ ]
- / ----------
- /
-
-
-
- microwave
- radiation


THE BOLOMETRIC RECEIVER.
================================================== ===
-
-
- parabolic antenna
-
- \
- \
- \
- \ RESISTOR or BLACK BODY or
- ) )------| " microwave receiver "
- / |
- / |-|
- / | | -"loading"
- / | | RESISTOR
- |-|
- |
- |
- microwave |
- radiation === Ground return circuit

This diagram is easier than the diagram of the elementary
detecting radio receiver, here detector is the resistor.




And that this is fact.



"And that this is" your fiction. ;-)

"And that this is" your fiction. ;-)

"And that this is" your fiction. ;-)



I expect either you or him to come up with something other
than arm waving and accusing me of being audacious.

: ()

I do not perceive who from us waves by arms...
The truth as I perceive it...

-
-
- parabolic antenna
-
- \
- \
- \
- \ nonlinear DETECTOR or BLACK BODY or
- ) )------| " microwave receiver "
- / |
- / |-|
- / | | -"loading"
- / | | nonlinear DETECTOR
- |-|
- |
- |
- microwave |
- radiation === Ground return circuit


It is necessary to you to understand principles of operation
of the elementary detecting receiver of electromagnetic radiation.

The input circuit of the detecting receiver of electromagnetic
radiation is the linear reversible device. For this reason,
the "absorbed" electromagnetic radiation should be "reradiated"
by the receiver in enclosing space backwards. :-(

But This process of "reradiation" is eliminated, since the input
circuit of the detecting receiver has the DETECTOR as a loading.

The similar history "TO THE CONTRARY" happens in the GENERATOR
of electromagnetic radiation.

So beginnign and end of light's life are "nonlinear processes"
inside of the material transmitter OR of the material receiver,
i.e. inside of the material nonlinear GENERATOR OR of the material
nonlinear DETECTOR.

: ()


PARADOX. Contrary to the conventional judgement
the pure RESISTANCE is not a linear device from a physical
point of view, since the pure RESISTANCE transmutes energy
of currents of any frequencies into heat.

---------------------------------------------------------
Thus RESISTOR is the nonlinear transformer
of electromagnetic energy similar to an ideal BLACK BODY.
---------------------------------------------------------

From other ONLY MATHEMATICAL point of view, the pure
RESISTANCE enters inside of the equations as a constant,
i.e. the pure RESISTANCE is a LINEAR device.

---------------------------------------------------------
Thus RESISTOR is the a LINEAR device. ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------



: ()


I do not perceive who from us waves by arms...
The truth as I perceive it...



[snip]

David A. Smith

Dear Aleksandr Timofeev:

"Aleksandr Timofeev" wrote in message
om...
\(formerly\)" dlzc1.cox@net wrote in message
news:pKN8b.55909$Qy4.42357@fed1read05...
[snip]
Note, Alexsandr claims that beginnign and end of light's life are
boundary
conditions to a wave equation.

" beginnign and end of light's life are boundary
conditions to a wave equation. "

Your statement does not correspond to a real. (((:-(

And that this is fact.



"And that this is" your fiction. ;-)

"And that this is" your fiction. ;-)

"And that this is" your fiction. ;-)

snip antennas that mask any particle behaviour from being detected.
It is necessary to you to understand principles of operation
of the elementary detecting receiver of electromagnetic radiation.

We have been through this. These devices mask any attempt to show particle
level behaviour. So of course, wave models work well for this case.

The input circuit of the detecting receiver of electromagnetic
radiation is the linear reversible device. For this reason,
the "absorbed" electromagnetic radiation should be "reradiated"
by the receiver in enclosing space backwards. :-(

But This process of "reradiation" is eliminated, since the input
circuit of the detecting receiver has the DETECTOR as a loading.

The similar history "TO THE CONTRARY" happens in the GENERATOR
of electromagnetic radiation.

So beginnign and end of light's life are "nonlinear processes"
inside of the material transmitter OR of the material receiver,
i.e. inside of the material nonlinear GENERATOR OR of the material
nonlinear DETECTOR.

: ()

The beginning or ending of life for a photon is a change in momentum of a
particle with charge. Bring the host in if you must, but you again hide
this discrete endpoint. Your model is useful, but it is still a model, and
not any closer to the complete story.

....
PARADOX. Contrary to the conventional judgement
the pure RESISTANCE is not a linear device from a physical
point of view, since the pure RESISTANCE transmutes energy
of currents of any frequencies into heat.

---------------------------------------------------------
Thus RESISTOR is the nonlinear transformer
of electromagnetic energy similar to an ideal BLACK BODY.
---------------------------------------------------------

Why do you say non-linear? Especially when you mention "pure" resistor
above? Is it because AC is not conducted through the center of the
resistor, for high frequencies?

From other ONLY MATHEMATICAL point of view, the pure
RESISTANCE enters inside of the equations as a constant,
i.e. the pure RESISTANCE is a LINEAR device.

---------------------------------------------------------
Thus RESISTOR is the a LINEAR device. ;-)
---------------------------------------------------------

Which is it linear or nonlinear?

: ()

Yes little icon, I'd like to know why he disagrees with himself so
quickly...

I do not perceive who from us waves by arms...
The truth as I perceive it...

This translates to...

David A. Smith

\(formerly\)" dlzc1.cox@net wrote in message news:pKN8b.55909$Qy4.42357@fed1read05...
[snip]

See yourself:

Handsome devil.

...

[snip]


Note, Alexsandr claims that beginnign and end of light's life are boundary
conditions to a wave equation. And that this is fact. I expect either you
or him to come up with something other than arm waving and accusing me of
being audacious.




Burke B.F., Quantum Interference Paradox, Nature, 223, 389-390, 1969.



Dear David A. Smith


THE DETECTOR RECEIVER.
================================================== ===
-
-
- parabolic antenna
-
- \
- \
- \
- \ RESISTOR or BLACK BODY or
- ) )------| " microwave receiver "
- / |
- / |-|
- / | | -"loading"
- / | | DETECTOR
- |-|
- |
- |
- microwave |
- radiation === Ground return circuit


The quantum jumps in matter are a special case of nonlinear processes.

David A. Smith:

The beginning or ending of life for a photon is a change in momentum of a
particle with charge. Bring the host in if you must, but you again hide
this discrete endpoint. Your model is useful, but it is still a model, and
not any closer to the complete story.


The quantum jumps in matter are subject to the Planck's postulate.
Thus process of DETECTION of electromagnetic radiation is nonlinear
quantum process, which one is subject to the Planck's postulate.

Since the quantum jumps in matter are subject to the Planck's postulate,
================================================== ==============
the hypothesis about "particle - photon" is exuberant and WANTON
================================================== ==============
from a theoretical point of view.

Besides the photoeffect is a special case of nonlinear quantum
process of DETECTION of electromagnetic radiation in matter,
which one is accompanied by an ejection of electrons. ;-)


" Good. I will trim the old stuff, since you laboriously reconstructed and
resequenced it to suit your need. "


David A. Smith

"George Dishman" wrote in message ...
"sean" wrote in message
om...
"George Dishman" wrote in message
...
"sean" wrote in message
m...
Craig Markwardt wrote in message
...
(sean) writes:
[ ... ]

The original point was that I responded to Davids claim that
resonance
was not possible described as a wave phenomena in refernce of
course

I can't find an example where David says this.
Ill look again but he says that resonance can only be exhibited by a
particle

Waves require a continuous medium and a propagation direction. A
pendulum-like swing embodies neither. The fact that the tha
language
of *oscillations* can be used to describe waves and resonance does
not
mean that they are identical.


Thats a fair point but you say that I say that waves and resonance are
identical. Thats misquoting me because my argument is that waves "in a
medium" ,contained if neccesary, exhibit resonance. Did I say or do
you think I say that waves are identical to resonance? Why would I
mean that? Of course I realize that waves on there own arent
resonance.


"sean" wrote in message
om...
..
Secondly I thought about it and actually a medium can resonate and
standing nodes of maxima CAN occur in our observable world in water or
etc in open uncontained systems . This can be done simply by having 2
identical energy sources creating waves and at the point or in the
region between the two sources there are standing waves produced
| | |

A | | | B

| | |

Above A and B are vibrating sources in an open uncontained medium and
the vertical lines denote maxima where overlapping waves create
standing waves .
This is seen in water tanks etc experiments and shows how classical
waves can resonate in an open system and create maxima (in this case
bands rather than nodes)
So theoretically in a open infinite universe the aethger medium could
resonate and nodes of maxima would be possible.

... above I have shown
that the medium does not need to be contained to resonate and create
maxima. Everyday examples in water and air show how open systems of
mediums of homogenous density CAN resonate and can produce nodes of
maxima.


... do you agree that
a medium can resonate in an open system. as I have shown above?


Hi George
I think you fell for Craigs trap there too . Notice he says that I say
that waves are resonances. Note that my quote has waves ,(from a
energy source) IN A MEDIUM can exhibit resonance. Wait here I will say
it again .... Waves in a medium can exhibit resonance. In other words
I did not say waves are resonance. Those are two seperate words (waves
, resonance) and he was trying to make it look like I thought that
waves and resonance were essentially the same thing.

No, as I read what he said, he was trying to point out that it
takes more than just waves in a medium to exhibit resonance.

That they meant
the same thing. IF on the other hand he meant that quote above then I
still stand by it. I have seen in water two sources vibrating that
produce standing waves or maxima at a point between the two sources.
That to me is resonance.

And that is exactly the point. To everyone else that is _not_
resonance, it is only intereference. The best example of resonance
for you to consider is the child on a swing. If you want the child
to go high in the air, you could just push and hold him there. It
is a lot easier to give a small push in time with each swing and
gradually build the amplitude. It is the ability to generate a large
amplitude from a small force by accumulating the energy in the
system that is the phenomenon known as resonance. Whether a
particular example makes use of waves or not is entirely beside the
point, and whther or not a wave system exhibits nodes or maxima is
also completely irrelevant.

Furthermore I am sure that if a extra driving
force was added at a similar frequency those maxima would increase in
amplitude. That fuylfils the textbook definition of resonance. But
dont be mistaken , Craig was trying to insinuate that I thought that
the words waves and resonance both meant the same thing. I dont and I
have never said that. I know they are different meanings but I also
know that waves in a medium can exhibit resonance.

I don't think he was suggesting you were saying they were the
same though I can see how you would get that impression. I think
he was saying that although waves and maxima are involved in some
examples of resonance, they are not enough on their own to
constitute resonance.

However, the reason I juxtaposed your quotes is that in the
first you say:

"my argument is that waves 'in a medium' ,contained if neccesary,
exhibit resonance." and "Of course I realize that waves on there
own arent resonance."

yet you had previously said:

"This ... shows how classical waves can resonate in an open system
and create maxima (in this case bands rather than nodes)"

"in a open infinite universe the aethger medium could resonate and
nodes of maxima would be possible."

"above I have shown that the medium does not need to be contained
to resonate and create maxima."

"do you agree that a medium can resonate in an open system. as I
have shown above?"

Clearly you had been arguing that waves on their own could exhibit
resonance, and as far as I can see you are still doing so. As I
have said before, the problem is not your grasp of the physics,
just your understanding of the terminology. Adopting the same
meaning for the word as everyone else will simply help you
communicate.

George

Hi George
I`m glad you understand how I interpret his quote that he thinks that
waves are resonance. Especially considering I juxtaposed that with the
second part of the line that says that I think that waves in a medium
can exhibit resonace. Initially I thought that if I could get David to
agree that a contained system could resonate with a medium etc however
you want to word it then I could then put forth an argument that shows
how then a node in a contained resonating system could in a sense be
comparable to a wave only atom mechanically speaking.
You present an argument that says that the medium has to be contained
to exhibit resonance whereas yes iniitially I was hoping to argue that
an infinite homogenous universe could aLSO do the same . OK I wont
push that open homogenous idea right as you in a sense provided an
answer in that your post a few back said that a sun could exhibit
resonance and even interstellar space with gas clouds could also be
interpereted as `contained ` systems`. Thats your quote not mine and I
`ll take that as the implication that an infinite universe is NOT
homogenous and therefore is not uncontained at any one point. Hence my
infinite universe can at any point have a `contained` prerequisite`
But initially though YES I assumed that Craig was trying to suggest
that I didnt know the grammatical or dictionary difference between the
two words. Otherwise if he had said a medium can exhibit resonance I
would have said yes and argued it using the above argument.
So what do you think ?You suggest ear;ier all interstellar space is
not homogenous and you admit a medium contained can exhibit resonance
like the sun.Whats wrong with me then saying OK At any point in the
universe be it in a star or solid or interstellar gas resonace can be
exhibited and therefore that could be said to be how a wave only
atomis explained.And thats why more complex atoms can only be created
in denser mediums like stars. And how did the initial hydrogen
building blocks get created . I cant explain that but neither can QT
as it cannot explain before less than a fraction of a second the big
bang as conditions are not understood. Som if QT cant explain parts
then wave theory gets that same `out`so to speak.
Sean