is the GPS myth unmythbustable?

Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Aug 18, 5:09 pm, Tom Roberts wrote:
[A GPS receiver's local clock]
is used only during acquiring the satellite signals and bridging their different
time signals. So its stability and accuracy are only needed for a few minutes,
and its error does not contribute significantly to the positioning error.

The local time plays no role in deriving GPS signals if the
acquisitions are done with at least four independent satellites.

Not true. The time signals from different satellites come at different times to
the receiver, and it must use its local clock to offset them to a common instant
in time (which I called "bridging" above). The error in the local clocks' tick
rate does enter in to the error in the position fix (in a complex and
ever-changing manner), but it is engineered to be negligible compared to other
error contributions.


Tom Roberts

In article , tjroberts137
@sbcglobal.net says...


Actually, UTC is periodically adjusted to remain in sync with earth's rotation.
They add "leap seconds" every once in a while...

GPS time does NOT jump, and does not have leap seconds.

thanks for correction.


It also includes the location's timezone offset. It is determined by the
cellphone's service provider, which is not necessarily in sync with UTC, though
they generally keep it within a few seconds.

Sure, I did not include timezone offset,
as far as Androcles lives in GMT/GDT + 0 zone.

--
Poutnik

"Poutnik" wrote in message
...
| In article , tjroberts137
| @sbcglobal.net says...
|
|
| Actually, UTC is periodically adjusted to remain in sync with earth's
rotation.
| They add "leap seconds" every once in a while...
|
| GPS time does NOT jump, and does not have leap seconds.
|
| thanks for correction.
|
|
| It also includes the location's timezone offset. It is determined by the
| cellphone's service provider, which is not necessarily in sync with UTC,
though
| they generally keep it within a few seconds.
|
| Sure, I did not include timezone offset,
| as far as Androcles lives in GMT/GDT + 0 zone.

Oh, so some ****headed moron's supposed 38 usec/day is very
important but a deliberate error of one hour isn't. How about New
York? That's FIVE hours slow, yet London and New York can
share the same mid-Atlantic satellite.
What about Bristol? That's ten minutes behind London.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brizzle...ed/2080844004/

Or a geostationary satellite that's whizzing around the Earth once
a day while staying right where it is so that people can point their
dishes at it to get TV signals. How many usecs a day is that losing
according to Einstein's stupidity?
You've been conned, bamboozled, confabulated by the worst
stage magician in the world, Albert Einstein. It's a trick, dumbo,
and you are not smart enough to see how it was done. You'll
believe Einstein can saw a woman in half with no blood loss if
he said he could.
You ain't smart, you are stupid, and you'll go on spreading
Einstein's crap to other bozos that are just as stupid as you
so that they can think they are as smart as you. Now go and
get an education in mathematics instead of a first class honours
degree in abject bull****.

On Aug 18, 9:37 pm, Tom Roberts wrote:
Koobee Wublee wrote:

The local time plays no role in deriving GPS signals if the
acquisitions are done with at least four independent satellites.

Not true. The time signals from different satellites come at different times to
the receiver, and it must use its local clock to offset them to a common instant
in time (which I called "bridging" above).

Care to show the mathematics that is the case?

When each GPS receiver decodes the GPS signals by solving the 4
independent equations with the unknowns of local position and local
time as measured in satellite time, there is just nothing else.
Satellite chronological time is not important but necessary in the
calculations. Do you not agree?

The error in the local clocks' tick
rate does enter in to the error in the position fix (in a complex and
ever-changing manner), but it is engineered to be negligible compared to other
error contributions.

Whatever you say as long as you are not claiming any relativistic
corrections. shrug

It sounds like you are no longer claiming the necessity of
relativistic correction whether it exists or not, correct? shrug

If so, glad you have come to your senses at such late stage in your
career. Did you ask yourself “why was I ever such mystified?”?
Koobee Wublee is a man of science. Better listen to what He has to
say. shrug

Good luck on convincing that little professor from Norway. Paul
Andersen still thinks the relativistic effect must be applied for
mixers to operate properly. Of course, he used to work for one of
these Bluetooth, ZigBee, IEEE802.15.4, or WIFI adventures.
Unbelievable, is it not? shrug

In the meantime, stop kicking yourself. Let’s go on to discuss the
age-old myth of the metric thoroughly and definitively representing
the invariant geometry. It has been a silly myth that this is the
case among the self-styled physicists. This myth can easily be busted
by simple mathematical concept within the concept of elementary school
level since (GEOMETRY = METRIC * COORDINATE). It is no wonder that
Hilbert who came up with field equations walked away from them and
allowed the Einstein the nitwit, the nitwit, the plagiarist to take
full credit. That means all these black holes predicted by this myth
are merely myths themselves. If you are a man of science (He thinks
deep down you are indeed a man of science despite been shrouded in
such great mysticism) you should seek demystification as soon as
possible at such late stage in your career. shrug

In article ,


|
| Sure, I did not include timezone offset,
| as far as Androcles lives in GMT/GDT + 0 zone.

Oh, so some ****headed moron's supposed 38 usec/day is very
important but a deliberate error of one hour isn't.

No, I have not just wanted to confuse you by another complication,
taking it myself as implicit and obvious.

You manifest typical trolling behavior.
I had you already in my bozo bin, but conditionally removed you.

It could be a mistake.

--
Poutnik

"Poutnik" wrote in message
...
| In article ,
| |
| |
| | Sure, I did not include timezone offset,
| | as far as Androcles lives in GMT/GDT + 0 zone.
|
| Oh, so some ****headed moron's supposed 38 usec/day is very
| important but a deliberate error of one hour isn't.
|
| No, I have not

**** off, snipping ****headed moron.
*plonk*
--
Einstein: God does not play dice.
God: Yes I do, Einstein is a poor loser.

In article a1caf856-0f09-4479-a3d1-8f1d99b15909
@w22g2000prj.googlegroups.com, says...


When each GPS receiver decodes the GPS signals by solving the 4
independent equations with the unknowns of local position and local
time as measured in satellite time, there is just nothing else.
Satellite chronological time is not important but necessary in the
calculations. Do you not agree?

Receiver takes for 4 satellites
4 (clock reading - sat timestamp ) values
( called pseudoranges if multiplied by c )

It calculates from them distances to satellites
and correction of its clock reading to sat clock reading.

But still does not have clue where sats are.

Then it calculates from sat times positions of sats
from ephemeris received from them.

Then it performs final triangulation from sat positions
and distances, to get is own position.

Whatever you say as long as you are not claiming any relativistic
corrections. shrug

Without rel correction,
bad sat position = fn (bad sat time )
bad gps position = fn (bad sat positions, good sat distances )

We both agree receiver can get correct distances,
even if sats do not have their time corrected.

--
Poutnik

In article ,


"Poutnik" wrote in message
...
| In article ,
| |
| |
| | Sure, I did not include timezone offset,
| | as far as Androcles lives in GMT/GDT + 0 zone.
|
| Oh, so some ****headed moron's supposed 38 usec/day is very
| important but a deliberate error of one hour isn't.
|
| No, I have not

**** off, snipping ****headed moron.
*plonk*

Hm, seeing you have nothing else to topic,
desperately going to personal offenses.

So, no more wasting time with you.


--
Poutnik

"Androcles" wrote:
in message ...

"Poutnik" wrote in message
...
| In article ,
| |
| |
| | Sure, I did not include timezone offset,
| | as far as Androcles lives in GMT/GDT + 0 zone.
|
| Oh, so some ****headed moron's supposed 38 usec/day is very
| important but a deliberate error of one hour isn't.
|
| No, I have not

Androcles wrote:
**** off, snipping ****headed moron.
*plonk*
--
Einstein: God does not play dice.
God: Yes I do, Einstein is a poor loser.

hanson wrote:
.... AHAHAHAHAHAHA.. See, Andro, Plonking is
what you should be doing to me too. It would
make the thread far more interesting if I were to
address Poutnick directly and mention what you
said anoubt him instead of me riding your coat tail
..... like you have done habitually...
Parallel posting is more effective then is sequential
posting.

But till then it merely shows that you yearn to exhibit
your needs to boast and toot and brag about your,
http://tinyurl.com/Andro-John-Parkers-Girl-friend
whom you poke & prod, ever since you introduced her on
April 12th, after you proudly posted his mantra to brag about
his http://tinyurl.com/Andros-sad-and-sorry-life wherein
| == JP said: I like to be crass and offend in retribution for
| == JP said: a career of arse-kissing politeness in pursuit
| == JP said: of the almighty buck, & where better than usenet?]

ahahahahaha...

"Androcles" wrote in message
...

"Poutnik" wrote in message
...
| In article , tjroberts137
| @sbcglobal.net says...
|
|
| Actually, UTC is periodically adjusted to remain in sync with earth's
rotation.
| They add "leap seconds" every once in a while...
|
| GPS time does NOT jump, and does not have leap seconds.
|
| thanks for correction.
|
|
| It also includes the location's timezone offset. It is determined by
the
| cellphone's service provider, which is not necessarily in sync with
UTC,
though
| they generally keep it within a few seconds.
|
| Sure, I did not include timezone offset,
| as far as Androcles lives in GMT/GDT + 0 zone.

Androcles wrote:
Oh, so some ****headed moron's supposed 38 usec/day
is very important but a deliberate error of one hour isn't.
Pounick, tou've been conned, bamboozled, confabulated
by the worst stage magician in the world, Albert Einstein.
It's a trick, dumbo Poutnick, and you are not smart enough
to see how it was done.
You ain't smart, you are stupid, Poutnick and you'll go on
spreading Einstein's crap to other bozos that are just as
stupid as you so that they can think they are as smart as
you. Now go and get an education in mathematics instead
of a first class honours degree in abject bull****.

hanson wrote:
In the continued effort to demonstrate to Andro how Andros'
coat-tail raiding is perceived, it must be said that what Andro
explains above (re the 38/sec) is absolutely factual in the
REAL world.
Our friend Poutnick who is a student still in CZ has not had
the exposure nor chance yet to experience and realize that
this 38/usec = AND = all of Einstein's crap is indeed willfully
contrived, irrational and useless Gedanken ****.

So, Pouter can be forgiven, but it doe not justify that
Andro needs to to boast and toot and brag about his,
http://tinyurl.com/Andro-John-Parkers-Girl-friend
whom he pokes & prods, ever since he introduced her on
April 12th, after he proudly posted his mantra to brag about
his http://tinyurl.com/Andros-sad-and-sorry-life wherein
| == JP said: I like to be crass and offend in retribution for
| == JP said: a career of arse-kissing politeness in pursuit
| == JP said: of the almighty buck, & where better than usenet?]

ahahahahaha...