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Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 10th 18, 04:09 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Bill[_9_]
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 19:51:19 -0700 (PDT), palsing wrote:

And I assure you that we nuances feel exactly the same about you...


He could have gone off and created his own group; but he hasn't. Go
figure.

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  #12  
Old April 10th 18, 09:50 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 4:09:15 PM UTC+1, Bill wrote:
On Mon, 9 Apr 2018 19:51:19 -0700 (PDT), palsing wrote:

And I assure you that we nuances feel exactly the same about you...


He could have gone off and created his own group; but he hasn't. Go
figure.

--



Well Bill, the evolution of this newsgroup followed a predictable path as most are magnification hobbyists anyway who don't want to be seen believing impossible notions so they did what theorists do inside the protected walls of the universities, they migrated to the moderated forums where they are among their own. Fair dues to them but originality,creativity and productive work depends solely on the price of a telescope or camera.

These people would not dare look at a set of rows and columns with data showing sunrise to sunset to sunrise times which complete one rotation, noon to noon or sunset to sunset depending on the choice of the individual -

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/kenya/nairobi

The sunset cell for one day to the sunrise cell the next day represents the stars in view whereas the sunrise to sunset cell in the same row represents the Sun in view - simple stuff using data to inform the observer of one rotation.

I am a Christian and the saying is that a grain of wheat has to die in order to produce more and that goes for all individual lives and other areas of existence. The newsgroup may not seem fertile ground but it is fairly free of obstructions and that suits me.





  #13  
Old April 11th 18, 12:43 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:50:17 PM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/kenya/nairobi


Very nice page, Gerald, lots of plain, simple facts, and all the facts are spot-on correct. Good find on your part.

I invite you to scroll down to the bottom right-hand side of that page and click this link... What is twilight, dawn, and dusk?

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronom...-twilight.html

.... and then scroll down that page a little bit until you come to the section that says "Civil Twilight, Dawn, and Dusk", and read all about the different kinds of twilight. This explains in simple English, with very nice graphics, *exactly* what the definitions are for these 3 kinds of twilights.

There can no longer be any kind of argument from you about how wrong I have been in the past when I tried unsuccessfully to convince you that I know exactly what I am talking about when it comes to twilight and that you can finally see the way things really are. instead of your claim that the length of twilight depends on the surface speed of the rotating Earth, you can now see why it only depends on how far below the horizon the Sun is... right? Do you finally understand?

This old post of yours can be put to rest at last...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.astro.amateur/gerald$20twilight|sort:date/sci.astro.amateur/gISVOfL1BW0/qJkgiP-KcTcJ



  #14  
Old April 11th 18, 07:39 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 12:43:53 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 1:50:17 PM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher wrote:

https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/kenya/nairobi


Very nice page, Gerald, lots of plain, simple facts, and all the facts are spot-on correct. Good find on your part.

I invite you to scroll down to the bottom right-hand side of that page and click this link... What is twilight, dawn, and dusk?

https://www.timeanddate.com/astronom...-twilight.html


This was covered a few days ago where Roland bases his sunset to sunrise on the local horizon which may only be 10 miles in diameter hence different types of twilight in that format are invalid.

There are two different types of twilight - daily twilight and the altogether different twilight happening presently at the South Pole as that latitudes turns away from the Sun -

https://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

( why the people responsible for the webcam are intentionally screwing up is anyone's guess )

The roughly 6 week polar twilight before polar night sets in and the surface rotation behind it is obscured by celestial sphere descriptions.
  #15  
Old April 11th 18, 07:47 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Wednesday, April 11, 2018 at 12:43:53 AM UTC+1, palsing wrote:



There can no longer be any kind of argument from you about how wrong I have been in the past when I tried unsuccessfully to convince you that I know exactly what I am talking about when it comes to twilight and that you can finally see the way things really are. instead of your claim that the length of twilight depends on the surface speed of the rotating Earth, you can now see why it only depends on how far below the horizon the Sun is... right? Do you finally understand?

This old post of yours can be put to rest at last...

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/sci.astro.amateur/gerald$20twilight|sort:date/sci.astro.amateur/gISVOfL1BW0/qJkgiP-KcTcJ


You are mixing up two types of observation as polar twilight at the North and South poles where this is just a single sunrise/sunset each orbit due to a surface rotation as a function of the Earth's orbital motion is entirely distinct from daily sunrise/sunset and twilight at lower habitable latitudes from a different rotational cause.

The variations in twilight length across latitudes from say the Equator to London is due to the rate of rotation through the circle of illumination (twilight) so the slower the speed of rotation, the longer the twilight.

After polar sunset less than a month ago, the South pole is very slowly turning parallel to the orbital plane and indeed the entire surface of the planet is but daily rotation at lower latitudes drown this slow rotation out as an effect whereas it is experienced in isolation at the South and North poles.

Think you can handle that ?.

  #16  
Old April 15th 18, 08:26 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 7:03:59 PM UTC+1, Razzmatazz wrote:
On Friday, April 6, 2018 at 2:24:54 AM UTC-5, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
The daily motion ....


I stayed up all night to see where the sun went, and then it dawned on me..


From observer to horizon acts as a giant sunshade to the Sun's glare once it disappears from view or ,in the morning, before it comes into view.

From an orbital perspective we see all celestial objects close to the left of the Sun using the distance of observer to horizon as a sunshade whereas from observer to opposite horizon does the same job in the morning. Only on a total solar eclipse when the moon acts as a sunscreen do observers see both sides close to the Sun simultaneously thereby giving observers the same feeling I have constantly when encountering something new to consider.

http://www.americaneclipse2017.org/w...ity_zoomed.jpg

It is then we see the inner planets momentarily move around the Sun in the same way we see Jupiter's satellites in relation to their parent planet -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcrBAuLBXag



  #17  
Old April 15th 18, 08:59 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Anders Eklöf
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

Gerald Kelleher wrote:

The variations in twilight length across latitudes from say the Equator to
London is due to the rate of rotation through the circle of illumination
(twilight) so the slower the speed of rotation, the longer the twilight.


You should definitely brush up your math skills on the difference
between correlation vs. causality...

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  #18  
Old April 15th 18, 09:17 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 8:59:34 PM UTC+1, Anders Eklöf wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:

The variations in twilight length across latitudes from say the Equator to
London is due to the rate of rotation through the circle of illumination
(twilight) so the slower the speed of rotation, the longer the twilight..


You should definitely brush up your math skills on the difference
between correlation vs. causality...

--
I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour


Ah Anders, having shown you that entitled and titled are interchangeable as terms you come back with another one of these things.

Polar twilight is fully established at the South Pole and delighted they have at least the South Pole Radio Telescopes Camera operating showing this -

https://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm

The cause of this extended twilight is a property of orbital motion as the surface of the planet turns parallel to the orbital plane and entirely separate to daily rotation responsible for the day/night cycle at our latitudes.

If you can explain why the Sun comes into view on the March Equinox at the North Pole, stays constantly in view for 6 months before going out of view for another 6 months then be my guest but there is also extended polar dawn and twilight which is attached to this great cycle and the rotation behind it.

The Scandinavian people are a humane people and blessed with common sense so it can't be easy for you to ignore the imaging in front of you but that is not really my business. I don't bill anyone by the hour as the information is invaluable and belongs to everyone.








  #19  
Old April 17th 18, 11:38 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Anders Eklöf
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

Gerald Kelleher wrote:

On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 8:59:34 PM UTC+1, Anders Eklöf wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:

The variations in twilight length across latitudes from say the Equator to
London is due to the rate of rotation through the circle of illumination
(twilight) so the slower the speed of rotation, the longer the twilight.


You should definitely brush up your math skills on the difference
between correlation vs. causality...

--
I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour


Ah Anders, having shown you that entitled and titled are interchangeable
as terms you come back with another one of these things.


Yes, mock my language skills all you want. It's not helping. But you
know what? I actually learned from that...

Polar twilight is fully established at the South Pole and delighted they
have at least the South Pole Radio Telescopes Camera operating showing
this -

https://www.usap.gov/videoclipsandmaps/spwebcam.cfm


Everyone who cares knows that the South Pole has twilight in April.

The cause of this extended twilight is a property of orbital motion as
the surface of the planet turns parallel to the orbital plane and entirely
separate to daily rotation responsible for the day/night cycle at our
latitudes.


Incomprehensable as usual. And as far as I can tell it has nothing to do
with my comment above. "The cause of the extended twilight is a property
of orbital motion..." What does that even mean?
I dare say my grammar is better than yours though my vocabulary isn't...

If you can explain why the Sun comes into view on the March Equinox at the
North Pole, stays constantly in view for 6 months before going out of view
for another 6 months then be my guest but there is also extended polar
dawn and twilight which is attached to this great cycle and the rotation
behind it.


Since any sensible explanation comes with RA and declination and all
that other stuff that you won't listen to, it would be wasted on you, so
I won't even try.


The Scandinavian people are a humane people and blessed with common sense
so it can't be easy for you to ignore the imaging in front of you but that
is not really my business. I don't bill anyone by the hour as the
information is invaluable and belongs to everyone.


If you think I'm gonna accept your patronising tone cause I'm
Scandinavian, you're totally wrong.

Another conclution I've come to is to stop feeding the trolls.
Should have done that long ago. Byebye!

--
I recommend Macs to my friends, and Windows machines
to those whom I don't mind billing by the hour
  #20  
Old April 18th 18, 07:26 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Actual time lapse vs distorted time lapse

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 11:39:03 PM UTC+1, Anders Eklöf wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:



If you can explain why the Sun comes into view on the March Equinox at the
North Pole, stays constantly in view for 6 months before going out of view
for another 6 months then be my guest but there is also extended polar
dawn and twilight which is attached to this great cycle and the rotation
behind it.


Since any sensible explanation comes with RA and declination and all
that other stuff that you won't listen to, it would be wasted on you, so
I won't even try.



A South Pole sunrise is a singular event on the Equinox where the Sun comes into view for the one and only time -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM

It is well over a decade since I used the analogy of walking/orbiting a central object/Sun to demonstrate as an analogy how all parts of your body face the central object (chair,table, ect) as you complete that orbit. This not only represents the cause of the polar day/night cycle in isolation but also when combined with daily rotations creates the seasons and the variations in the natural noon cycle.

I think you did try but your reasoning just bounced off the insight because of lifelong familiarity with RA/Dec which has no cause and effect. Nothing difficult about the planet's two distinct day/night cycles, their cause and effects but first students must come to appreciate what happens at the North and South Poles.


 




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