Best Lunar Photograph I Have Ever Seen

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:24:03 GMT, Davoud wrote:

I couldn't pull that off if I had unlimited funds.

I doubt that, but you do generally make my point. This image isn't about
the hardware used, but the skill of the imager- particularly with
respect to processing.

control and image processing--Astro IIDC http://www.outcastsoft.com/
for image acquisition and aligning and stacking

Looks like an excellent tool. Nice to see Mac software starting to catch
up with Windows. Do you use this program for your imaging?

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Davoud:
control and image processing--Astro IIDC http://www.outcastsoft.com/
for image acquisition and aligning and stacking

Chris L Peterson:
Looks like an excellent tool. Nice to see Mac software starting to catch
up with Windows. Do you use this program for your imaging

I have a license, but I rarely use it. I don't do any Solar System work
except comets. Too difficult.

Waste of time though it is, let me try to disabuse you of your mistaken
notion about Mac software for astronomy, and across the board. While
there has certainly been less of Mac software than there has been
Windows software, Mac software is uniformly better than Windows
software in terms of ease of use and stability. It's independent
surveys that consistently report that Mac users are more productive
than Windows users doing the same kind of work. Windows shows no sign
of catching up with Mac software. No interface guidelines, arcane user
interfaces, less pride in the platform because it doesn't provide the
user satisfaction that the Mac OS does. For one example out of very
many, there are lots and lots of astro-image stackers for Windows, only
four or five for the Mac, but I can guarantee you based on my personal
experience and the testimony of many others who are users of both
platforms that not one of the Windows apps can touch Astro IIDC for
quality. An infinite number of second-rate software packages with
dog-ugly visual interfaces does not equal one top-notch app.

If you wish to dispute this, please take it up with someone else. Ask
one of the many developers who have switched to the Mac OS for all of
their development, even if it's Windows only they're developing for.
Ask Software Bisque why they are now doing their development on Macs,
and why the last two packages they have released, Seeker and TheSkyX,
have been "Mac first." Their next app, TheSkyX Serious Astronomer
Edition, will be released at MacWorld in January.

The expression "Vista is the best thing that ever happened to the Mac"
did _not_ originate with Mac users. The notion that Mac users are
Windows bashers is also a bum rap. I've said it before and I'll repeat
it: I get along just fine with XP Pro. Do a little googling and you'll
see who the Windows bashers are, and the more expert they are with
Windows, the more they hate it. Not my fault. Except in Colorado.

Over to you for yet another convincing demonstration that you know
absolutely nothing, aught, nil, zip, about the Mac OS.

Davoud

--
Sell GM for scrap metal. The country will recover and be better in the long run
without an anti-technology lobby to drag us down.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

On Dec 1, 9:24 pm, Davoud wrote:
[...]
I couldn't pull that off if I had unlimited funds. The good hardware
and software certainly make the work easier, but the skill, patience,
and dedication of the imager are critical. Alan gave a talk at the
first Macintosh Astronomy Workshop a couple of years back and, as I
understand it, he basically uses two pieces of software for camera
control and image processing--Astro IIDC http://www.outcastsoft.com/
for image acquisition and aligning and stacking; and Photoshop for the
finishing touches.

It's interesting to note that Alan collected the data in September,
2007, and released the finished mosaic just two days ago.

Hmmm, I didn't realize Macs were that slow and difficult to use.

It's really interesting also that at the cited Astro IIDC site
they have a link to a Cloudy Nights review:

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1044

where we find this:

"... but Registax is a Windows only application. Even a cursory
" survey of the astrophotography galleries on the Web will reveal
" that Registax is widely used and highly effective. Luckily for
" Mac users, Registax runs very well in Virtual PC ($229 with
" Windows XP Home Edition included).
"
" http://registax.astronomy.net/
"
" http://www.microsoft.com/mac
"
" While any of the Mac programs will allow you to select frames,
" stack them, and then enhance them, getting really good images
" seems to be just a tiny bit easier in Registax than any of the
" other programs around.

Davoud:
I couldn't pull that off if I had unlimited funds. The good hardware
and software certainly make the work easier, but the skill, patience,
and dedication of the imager are critical. Alan gave a talk at the
first Macintosh Astronomy Workshop a couple of years back and, as I
understand it, he basically uses two pieces of software for camera
control and image processing--Astro IIDC http://www.outcastsoft.com/
for image acquisition and aligning and stacking; and Photoshop for the
finishing touches.

It's interesting to note that Alan collected the data in September,
2007, and released the finished mosaic just two days ago.

Thad Floryan wrote:
Hmmm, I didn't realize Macs were that slow and difficult to use.

Zero points due to failed sarcasm. Alan Friedman is a business
Owner/CEO with perhaps a bit less leisure time than some of us.

It's really interesting also that at the cited Astro IIDC site
they have a link to a Cloudy Nights review:

http://www.cloudynights.com/item.php?item_id=1044

where we find this:

"... but Registax is a Windows only application. Even a cursory
" survey of the astrophotography galleries on the Web will reveal
" that Registax is widely used and highly effective. Luckily for
" Mac users, Registax runs very well in Virtual PC ($229 with
" Windows XP Home Edition included).

With due respect to Cloudy Nights, this is what results when people who
know nothing whatsoever about the Mac try to write about the Mac.
Virtual PC has been gone for years. It doesn't run on current Macs and
hasn't in years. Mac users who want to run Windows software boot their
Macs in Windows these days. If they need to run the Mac OS at the same
time they use virtualization--VMWare Fusion or Parallels Desktop. What
else do the Cloudy Nights writer and you not know about the Mac?

Here's one: Registax is lucky for Windows users, but it offers nothing
that would attract a person who uses a Mac that was made less than
about 10 years ago. In it's realm, Registax is great. Compared to Mac
image-stacking software it's poor.

Here's another one: The Cloudy nights reviewer is also unaware of
something that every person who is experienced with both the Mac OS and
Windows knows--Mac users demand more from the software and they get
more. More elegance, more accessibility of tools and features, more
stability. I only know this because I've been using Microsoft OS's
since the late 70's and the Mac OS since '86.

It's true I stayed with XP Pro and didn't move "up" to Vista; I might
have tried Vista, but I was given pause when Jim Allchin, chief of
Vista development at Microsoft wrote (concerning Vista) "I would buy a
Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft." Now that MS is
desperately trying to forget the Vista disaster and move on, I feel
vindicated.

I find it amusing that MS, with about 90 percent of the desktop OS
market, fears the Mac OS. Witness their pre-teen level commercials that
were meant to respond to Apple's slick and effective "Hello, I'm a
Mac..." campaign. Why should MS have to respond to a competitor who has
maybe six percent of the market? It shows that Microsoft itself holds
Windows in low regard. Incidentally, the poor quality of those ads has
nothing to do with the fact that they were made on Macs
http://tinyurl.com/4fvyq4.

People who write about the Mac without benefit of some moderate level
of experience with the Mac OS bring to mind that dingbat who thought
she was qualified to be president because she could see Russia from her
back window. Whether it's Macs or foreign policy, people should stick
to writing about what they know about, lest they come off looking like
a Chris L Peterson or a Sarah Palin.

Davoud

--
Sell GM for scrap metal. The country will recover and be better in the long run
without an anti-technology lobby to drag us down.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:49:33 GMT, Davoud wrote:

The expression "Vista is the best thing that ever happened to the Mac"
did _not_ originate with Mac users.

I'd agree. But I don't use Vista.

Over to you for yet another convincing demonstration that you know
absolutely nothing, aught, nil, zip, about the Mac OS.

I know enough to know that I don't like it. I find the user interface
awkward and ugly, and I find the underlying system difficult to develop
for. So I don't use it. And fortunately, there is no need to, because I
have no computer requirements that can't be satisfied by applications
that run under XP. If there were, I'd use a Mac, just as I use Linux
occasionally to take advantage of specialize apps that don't exist for
XP. What is the problem with that?
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Davoud:
Over to you for yet another convincing demonstration that you know
absolutely nothing, aught, nil, zip, about the Mac OS.

Chris L Peterson:
I know enough to know that I don't like it. I find the user interface
awkward and ugly, and I find the underlying system difficult to develop
for. So I don't use it. And fortunately, there is no need to, because I
have no computer requirements that can't be satisfied by applications
that run under XP. If there were, I'd use a Mac, just as I use Linux
occasionally to take advantage of specialize apps that don't exist for
XP. What is the problem with that?

The point is not that you should be using a Mac or that you should find
it beautiful or that you should find it easy to develop for Unix. Those
are personal matters about which no one need submit unsolicited
opinions. The point that I am justified in making is that you should
not be writing about the Mac any more than you should be pontificating
on the Apabhramsha language in its forum because misinformation does
not promote understanding. As I said to Mr. Floryan:

"People who write about the Mac without benefit of some moderate level
of experience with the Mac OS bring to mind that dingbat who thought
she was qualified to be president because she could see Russia from her
back window. Whether it's Macs or foreign policy, people should stick
to writing about what they know about, lest they come off looking like
a Chris L Peterson or a Sarah Palin."

A bit harsh in the analogy, perhaps, but it was just too obvious to
miss. You cannot avoid being a "Mac expert" just as you can't avoid
giving the final, no-others-need-reply answer to everything else in
this forum. Now here I go talking about something I know nothing about:
I would guess that omniscience can be both a blessing and a curse. But
that's only a guess, because my experience with omniscience is entirely
vicarious.

Davoud

--
Sell GM for scrap metal. The country will recover and be better in the long run
without an anti-technology lobby to drag us down.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 16:52:38 GMT, Davoud wrote:

The point that I am justified in making is that you should
not be writing about the Mac any more than you should be pontificating
on the Apabhramsha language in its forum because misinformation does
not promote understanding. As I said to Mr. Floryan:

"People who write about the Mac without benefit of some moderate level
of experience with the Mac OS...

I have no idea what Thad's personal experience with Macs is. Mine,
however, is extensive. I have worked in environments where Macs as
application platforms were dominant, and I have developed a great deal
of software for Macs, using Mac-based development tools.

So I do feel reasonably qualified to talk about them.

BTW, I have studied both classical and Vedic Sanskrit, so while I don't
actually hang out on any Apabhramsha forums, I certainly wouldn't be as
far out of place there as, say, Sarah Palin in any intellectual forum.
Namasté.
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:23:59 GMT, Davoud wrote:

My friend Alan Friedman, who works from his home in downtown Buffalo,
NY, has outdone himself, I think.

Please see
http://www.avertedimagination.com/img_pages/kleine_Ina.html and
http://www.avertedimagination.com/img_pages/kleine_Ina_vertical.html.

snip

Thank you for the link. These images are amazing!

Kapella

Davoud:
The point that I am justified in making is that you should
not be writing about the Mac any more than you should be pontificating
on the Apabhramsha language in its forum because misinformation does
not promote understanding. As I said to Mr. Floryan:

"People who write about the Mac without benefit of some moderate level
of experience with the Mac OS...

Chris L Peterson:
I have no idea what Thad's personal experience with Macs is. Mine,
however, is extensive. I have worked in environments where Macs as
application platforms were dominant, and I have developed a great deal
of software for Macs, using Mac-based development tools.

So I do feel reasonably qualified to talk about them.

Everything I have seen you write about Macs in this forum thoroughly
contradicts that. I'm going with what I have seen for myself.

BTW, I have studied both classical and Vedic Sanskrit, so while I don't
actually hang out on any Apabhramsha forums, I certainly wouldn't be as
far out of place there as, say, Sarah Palin in any intellectual forum.
Namasté.

I take it from that bit of strutting your omniscience that you missed
my point after all.

Davoud

--
Sell GM for scrap metal. The country will recover and be better in the long run
without an anti-technology lobby to drag us down.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

On Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:24:20 GMT, Davoud wrote:

I take it from that bit of strutting your omniscience that you missed
my point after all.

Not at all. But I sense your usual humor has slipped a bit today. Not
enough sunshine, not enough clear nights?
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com