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Magnetic lines of force
A recent statement in these newsgroups is that:
The twisting and snapping of magnetic field lines on the Sun, called magnetic reconnection, seem to cause CMEs and solar flares. When these fields snap from the build-up of magnetic energy, plasma is heated and particles are accelerated, resulting in massive explosions and emitting radiation ranging from radio waves to X-rays. The phrase "seem to cause CMEs and solar flares" is not the positive expression most solar astronomers and physicists generally use, and the indication of doubt in this instance is certainly fully justified. Magnetic lines of force are not physical identities like rubber bands. They are purely imaginary and were proposed by Faraday to show the direction of the magnetic field and their spacing shows the intensity of the field. The only excuse for continuing to treat magnetic lines of force as if they are real would be if there were no better theory to explain CMEs and solar flares. In fact a more rational theory was published in 1998 in the book 'The Electric Universe' by Laszlo Kortvelyessy which I reviewed for the Observatory Magazine, Cambridge, UK. A copy of the review is included in website: http://www..brox1.demon.co.uk/Sun2.htm Dr Kortvelyessy made the following comments concerning this thread: 1. Nobody saw these twisted rubber bands in solar function. However, it should be a daily theat spacecraft as Yohkoh, SOHO, TRACE and HESSI made and make continually movies about the Sun. All filaments are seen. When a flare erupts, [it would be possible for] the movie to be seen backwards from the minutes of the eruption to find [look for] the twisted filaments just before the eruption. But no twisted filaments were ever seen, even during two maxima. NASA states this clearly in: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/06feb_hessi.htm 2. Since Carrington, flares were found always near to sunspots, never in them. But should not the strongest eruptions come out from the strongest magnetic fields? Therefore, the magnetic fields cannot be the cause of the eruptions, neither twisted nor untwisted. The cause is positively charged matter emerging from the positive core and releasing by the transformation in the photosphere from charged plasma (which does not explode) to charged gas (which electrostatically explodes). 3. Filaments of the Sun are no filaments of plasma filled in magnetic tubes. If they would be, the magnetic field should be parallel to the filament axis. But in this case, the filaments could not transport matter, because the Lorenz-force is zero parallel to the magnetic field. But these filaments clearly transport matter. The solar filaments (also the flares and coronal mass ejections) are electrically ejected positively charged matter formed by the pinch effect. -- Eric Crew |
#2
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In article , Eric Crew
writes A recent statement in these newsgroups is that: The twisting and snapping of magnetic field lines on the Sun, called magnetic reconnection, seem to cause CMEs and solar flares. When these fields snap from the build-up of magnetic energy, plasma is heated and particles are accelerated, resulting in massive explosions and emitting radiation ranging from radio waves to X-rays. The phrase "seem to cause CMEs and solar flares" is not the positive expression most solar astronomers and physicists generally use, and the indication of doubt in this instance is certainly fully justified. Magnetic lines of force are not physical identities like rubber bands. They are purely imaginary and were proposed by Faraday to show the direction of the magnetic field and their spacing shows the intensity of the field. The only excuse for continuing to treat magnetic lines of force as if they are real would be if there were no better theory to explain CMEs and solar flares. In fact a more rational theory was published in 1998 in the book 'The Electric Universe' by Laszlo Kortvelyessy which I reviewed for the Observatory Magazine, Cambridge, UK. A copy of the review is included in website: http://www..brox1.demon.co.uk/Sun2.htm Sorry, 'S' should not be upper case. It should be: http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/sun2.htm A copy of the review only is in website http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/review1.htm Dr Kortvelyessy made the following comments concerning this thread: 1. Nobody saw these twisted rubber bands in solar function. However, it should be a daily theat spacecraft as Yohkoh, SOHO, TRACE and HESSI made and make continually movies about the Sun. All filaments are seen. When a flare erupts, [it would be possible for] the movie to be seen backwards from the minutes of the eruption to find [look for] the twisted filaments just before the eruption. But no twisted filaments were ever seen, even during two maxima. NASA states this clearly in: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/06feb_hessi.htm 2. Since Carrington, flares were found always near to sunspots, never in them. But should not the strongest eruptions come out from the strongest magnetic fields? Therefore, the magnetic fields cannot be the cause of the eruptions, neither twisted nor untwisted. The cause is positively charged matter emerging from the positive core and releasing by the transformation in the photosphere from charged plasma (which does not explode) to charged gas (which electrostatically explodes). 3. Filaments of the Sun are no filaments of plasma filled in magnetic tubes. If they would be, the magnetic field should be parallel to the filament axis. But in this case, the filaments could not transport matter, because the Lorenz-force is zero parallel to the magnetic field. But these filaments clearly transport matter. The solar filaments (also the flares and coronal mass ejections) are electrically ejected positively charged matter formed by the pinch effect. -- Eric Crew |
#3
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In article , Eric Crew
writes A recent statement in these newsgroups is that: The twisting and snapping of magnetic field lines on the Sun, called magnetic reconnection, seem to cause CMEs and solar flares. When these fields snap from the build-up of magnetic energy, plasma is heated and particles are accelerated, resulting in massive explosions and emitting radiation ranging from radio waves to X-rays. The phrase "seem to cause CMEs and solar flares" is not the positive expression most solar astronomers and physicists generally use, and the indication of doubt in this instance is certainly fully justified. Magnetic lines of force are not physical identities like rubber bands. They are purely imaginary and were proposed by Faraday to show the direction of the magnetic field and their spacing shows the intensity of the field. The only excuse for continuing to treat magnetic lines of force as if they are real would be if there were no better theory to explain CMEs and solar flares. In fact a more rational theory was published in 1998 in the book 'The Electric Universe' by Laszlo Kortvelyessy which I reviewed for the Observatory Magazine, Cambridge, UK. A copy of the review is included in website: http://www..brox1.demon.co.uk/Sun2.htm Sorry, 'S' should not be upper case. It should be: http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/sun2.htm A copy of the review only is in website http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/review1.htm Dr Kortvelyessy made the following comments concerning this thread: 1. Nobody saw these twisted rubber bands in solar function. However, it should be a daily theat spacecraft as Yohkoh, SOHO, TRACE and HESSI made and make continually movies about the Sun. All filaments are seen. When a flare erupts, [it would be possible for] the movie to be seen backwards from the minutes of the eruption to find [look for] the twisted filaments just before the eruption. But no twisted filaments were ever seen, even during two maxima. NASA states this clearly in: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2002/06feb_hessi.htm 2. Since Carrington, flares were found always near to sunspots, never in them. But should not the strongest eruptions come out from the strongest magnetic fields? Therefore, the magnetic fields cannot be the cause of the eruptions, neither twisted nor untwisted. The cause is positively charged matter emerging from the positive core and releasing by the transformation in the photosphere from charged plasma (which does not explode) to charged gas (which electrostatically explodes). 3. Filaments of the Sun are no filaments of plasma filled in magnetic tubes. If they would be, the magnetic field should be parallel to the filament axis. But in this case, the filaments could not transport matter, because the Lorenz-force is zero parallel to the magnetic field. But these filaments clearly transport matter. The solar filaments (also the flares and coronal mass ejections) are electrically ejected positively charged matter formed by the pinch effect. -- Eric Crew |
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"Eric Crew" wrote...
in message ... A recent statement in these newsgroups is that: The twisting and snapping of magnetic field lines on the Sun, called magnetic reconnection, seem to cause CMEs and solar flares. . . . . . . A copy of the review is included in website: http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/sun2.htm . . . -- Eric Crew As you know, Eric, i've believed for a long time now that magnetic lines of force are constructs derived from the iron filings "illusion" that teachers love so well. They fail to note that the filings also have their own individual fields that interact with the larger magnet's field. So while the lines of force may be a useful math construct, i agree that they don't exist as rubbery, snappy lines. I was thinking... since the temperature issue seems to be crucial to mainstream acceptance of LKs ideas, can it not be shown that temperatures of the Sun, both coronal and surface, must be lower than believed or else Mercury would be long since vaporized, while Venus, Earth and such would be so much hotter than they are? IOW, can we not use the surface temperatures of Earth, Venus, Mars and Mercury to infer a maximum possible temperature at the source that is being radiated toward them? I could be wrong, but it just seems to me that the temperatures which scientists attribute to the Sun would still be quite high even after traveling millions of miles... much higher than they actually are. happy days and... starry starry nights! -- a Secret of the Universe... so please don't breathe a word of this-- the Moon above will smile perverse whene'er it sees two lovers kiss; (breathe not a single word of this!) Paine Ellsworth |
#5
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"Eric Crew" wrote...
in message ... A recent statement in these newsgroups is that: The twisting and snapping of magnetic field lines on the Sun, called magnetic reconnection, seem to cause CMEs and solar flares. . . . . . . A copy of the review is included in website: http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/sun2.htm . . . -- Eric Crew As you know, Eric, i've believed for a long time now that magnetic lines of force are constructs derived from the iron filings "illusion" that teachers love so well. They fail to note that the filings also have their own individual fields that interact with the larger magnet's field. So while the lines of force may be a useful math construct, i agree that they don't exist as rubbery, snappy lines. I was thinking... since the temperature issue seems to be crucial to mainstream acceptance of LKs ideas, can it not be shown that temperatures of the Sun, both coronal and surface, must be lower than believed or else Mercury would be long since vaporized, while Venus, Earth and such would be so much hotter than they are? IOW, can we not use the surface temperatures of Earth, Venus, Mars and Mercury to infer a maximum possible temperature at the source that is being radiated toward them? I could be wrong, but it just seems to me that the temperatures which scientists attribute to the Sun would still be quite high even after traveling millions of miles... much higher than they actually are. happy days and... starry starry nights! -- a Secret of the Universe... so please don't breathe a word of this-- the Moon above will smile perverse whene'er it sees two lovers kiss; (breathe not a single word of this!) Paine Ellsworth |
#6
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Painius wrote,
So while the lines of force may be a useful math construct, i agree that they don't exist as rubbery, snappy lines. How then woud you explain the great looping prominences on the sun, which appear as coherent, spinning flux tubes? Magnetism itself, in say a bar magnet (under the CBB model) is due to the spin component of the strong nuclear force organizing into spinning flux tubes, like 'mini wormholes'. Their polarity or 'sign' is determined by spin direction as they enter the magnet. They are more than mere math constructs. But the question arises.. they are spinning flux tubes and 'mini wormholes' in.....'What'? Not (gasp) the spatial medium or VED itself. ...can it not be shown that temperatures of the Sun, both coronal and surface, must be lower than believed or else Mercury would be long since vaporized.... Think in terms of 'thermal capacity' and an object's ability (or inability) to re-radiate the IR energy it absorbs. If its 'thermal bulk' is too small, it cannot re-radiate fast enough, so its temperature keeps climbing higher and higher, _irrespective_ of the temperature of the radiating source. The filament in a light bulb has a very small 'thermal capacity', which is why it heats up to white incandesence. The puzzlement over the solar corona being "hotter than it should be" oughta be addressed in terms of thermal capacity of the coronal material. oc Anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net Change 'at' to@ |
#7
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Painius wrote,
So while the lines of force may be a useful math construct, i agree that they don't exist as rubbery, snappy lines. How then woud you explain the great looping prominences on the sun, which appear as coherent, spinning flux tubes? Magnetism itself, in say a bar magnet (under the CBB model) is due to the spin component of the strong nuclear force organizing into spinning flux tubes, like 'mini wormholes'. Their polarity or 'sign' is determined by spin direction as they enter the magnet. They are more than mere math constructs. But the question arises.. they are spinning flux tubes and 'mini wormholes' in.....'What'? Not (gasp) the spatial medium or VED itself. ...can it not be shown that temperatures of the Sun, both coronal and surface, must be lower than believed or else Mercury would be long since vaporized.... Think in terms of 'thermal capacity' and an object's ability (or inability) to re-radiate the IR energy it absorbs. If its 'thermal bulk' is too small, it cannot re-radiate fast enough, so its temperature keeps climbing higher and higher, _irrespective_ of the temperature of the radiating source. The filament in a light bulb has a very small 'thermal capacity', which is why it heats up to white incandesence. The puzzlement over the solar corona being "hotter than it should be" oughta be addressed in terms of thermal capacity of the coronal material. oc Anti-spam address: oldcoot88atwebtv.net Change 'at' to@ |
#8
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In article
, Painius writes "Eric Crew" wrote... in message ... A recent statement in these newsgroups is that: The twisting and snapping of magnetic field lines on the Sun, called magnetic reconnection, seem to cause CMEs and solar flares. . . . . . . A copy of the review is included in website: http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/sun2.htm . . . -- Eric Crew As you know, Eric, i've believed for a long time now that magnetic lines of force are constructs derived from the iron filings "illusion" that teachers love so well. They fail to note that the filings also have their own individual fields that interact with the larger magnet's field. So while the lines of force may be a useful math construct, i agree that they don't exist as rubbery, snappy lines. At last someone has stated their agreement with me and LK about this! Congratulations! I was thinking... since the temperature issue seems to be crucial to mainstream acceptance of LKs ideas, can it not be shown that temperatures of the Sun, both coronal and surface, must be lower than believed or else Mercury would be long since vaporized, while Venus, Earth and such would be so much hotter than they are? The 'conventional' idea is that although the temperature of the corona is supposed to be millions of degrees the atmosphere is so rarefied that the amount of heat (proportional to mass density times temperature) is relatively small and the heat received at Mercury for example is not nearly enough to cause it to melt. The flow of heat from the corona would soon cool it to a much lower temperature after a few hundred miles. The theories claiming these multi-million degree temperatures are not convincing and LK's claim that the nuclear reactions of recombination of protons and electrons cause the indications of very high temperatures conforms more to accepted physics. Incidentally the streams of electrons inside a television tube only cause a small rise in temperature of the tube. LK's ideas mainly concern the effect of temperature on the velocity of the particles in the solar interior as a result of the heating effect of the nuclear reactions. This causes electrons to travel at about 40 times the velocity of the much more massive protons, causing electrical charge separation and explains the many processes in the Sun and the surrounding atmosphere. There is no need to assume a dynamo producing powerful magnetic fields, etc. IOW, can we not use the surface temperatures of Earth, Venus, Mars and Mercury to infer a maximum possible temperature at the source that is being radiated toward them? I could be wrong, but it just seems to me that the temperatures which scientists attribute to the Sun would still be quite high even after traveling millions of miles... much higher than they actually are. No point in discussing this when LK's ideas give a rational scientific solution to the "high temperature question". The discovery of the large number of filamentary discharges show that these are electrical and their magnetic field is the cause of the small diameter of the filaments Heated plasma streams do not have these characteristics. -- Eric Crew |
#9
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In article
, Painius writes "Eric Crew" wrote... in message ... A recent statement in these newsgroups is that: The twisting and snapping of magnetic field lines on the Sun, called magnetic reconnection, seem to cause CMEs and solar flares. . . . . . . A copy of the review is included in website: http://www.brox1.demon.co.uk/sun2.htm . . . -- Eric Crew As you know, Eric, i've believed for a long time now that magnetic lines of force are constructs derived from the iron filings "illusion" that teachers love so well. They fail to note that the filings also have their own individual fields that interact with the larger magnet's field. So while the lines of force may be a useful math construct, i agree that they don't exist as rubbery, snappy lines. At last someone has stated their agreement with me and LK about this! Congratulations! I was thinking... since the temperature issue seems to be crucial to mainstream acceptance of LKs ideas, can it not be shown that temperatures of the Sun, both coronal and surface, must be lower than believed or else Mercury would be long since vaporized, while Venus, Earth and such would be so much hotter than they are? The 'conventional' idea is that although the temperature of the corona is supposed to be millions of degrees the atmosphere is so rarefied that the amount of heat (proportional to mass density times temperature) is relatively small and the heat received at Mercury for example is not nearly enough to cause it to melt. The flow of heat from the corona would soon cool it to a much lower temperature after a few hundred miles. The theories claiming these multi-million degree temperatures are not convincing and LK's claim that the nuclear reactions of recombination of protons and electrons cause the indications of very high temperatures conforms more to accepted physics. Incidentally the streams of electrons inside a television tube only cause a small rise in temperature of the tube. LK's ideas mainly concern the effect of temperature on the velocity of the particles in the solar interior as a result of the heating effect of the nuclear reactions. This causes electrons to travel at about 40 times the velocity of the much more massive protons, causing electrical charge separation and explains the many processes in the Sun and the surrounding atmosphere. There is no need to assume a dynamo producing powerful magnetic fields, etc. IOW, can we not use the surface temperatures of Earth, Venus, Mars and Mercury to infer a maximum possible temperature at the source that is being radiated toward them? I could be wrong, but it just seems to me that the temperatures which scientists attribute to the Sun would still be quite high even after traveling millions of miles... much higher than they actually are. No point in discussing this when LK's ideas give a rational scientific solution to the "high temperature question". The discovery of the large number of filamentary discharges show that these are electrical and their magnetic field is the cause of the small diameter of the filaments Heated plasma streams do not have these characteristics. -- Eric Crew |
#10
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Hi Eric oc,and Painius. We seem to talk very easy about "magnetic lines
of force" Do we really know what we are talking about? What is the structure(particle,or wave) that creates these force lines? How fast do they travel? Earth's magnetic field changes polarity (why) Why does the Earth's magnetic field move(say about 100 miles? I have thought about this for many moons,and in my minds eye have answers to these hard questions. Some I even like. All are better than no answer. Bert |
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