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NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 12th 06, 06:51 AM posted to sci.space.history
Rusty
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Posts: 617
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1171

".....have reported that the current design is underpowered to the tune
of a metric ton or more......"

".....Ares 1 would not be able to put the present Orion spacecraft
design (Crew Exploration Vehicle) into the orbit NASA desires......"

".....One possible solution to the Stick's current design problems is
to add side-mounted solid rocket motors....."


Also....


According to discussions on Nasaspaceflight.com the Ares 1 is in
trouble:
--The CEV will have to use its Service Module engine as a 3rd stage.
The CEV service module will have to add 1000fps to achieve orbital
velocity on a mission to the ISS.
--The Ares 1 payload weight is down to 22 m-tons.
--There may be problems with the Ares 1 wobbling at liftoff and
striking objects (umbilical
tower) near the pad in high winds.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...sts=67&start=1


-Rusty

  #2  
Old November 12th 06, 05:38 PM posted to sci.space.history
Rand Simberg[_1_]
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Posts: 8,311
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

On 11 Nov 2006 21:51:58 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Rusty"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:

NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1171

".....have reported that the current design is underpowered to the tune
of a metric ton or more......"

".....Ares 1 would not be able to put the present Orion spacecraft
design (Crew Exploration Vehicle) into the orbit NASA desires......"

".....One possible solution to the Stick's current design problems is
to add side-mounted solid rocket motors....."


Also....


According to discussions on Nasaspaceflight.com the Ares 1 is in
trouble:
--The CEV will have to use its Service Module engine as a 3rd stage.
The CEV service module will have to add 1000fps to achieve orbital
velocity on a mission to the ISS.
--The Ares 1 payload weight is down to 22 m-tons.
--There may be problems with the Ares 1 wobbling at liftoff and
striking objects (umbilical
tower) near the pad in high winds.


I'm shocked, shocked...

Max Hunter always used to say there was a reason that aspect ratios of
rockets didn't exceed a certain value. Though using the SM as a third
stage is not necessarily a bad idea. NASA never really traded that
(or at least, never allowed the CEV contractors to--they always
provided a delta V for the vehicle in the SRD).
  #3  
Old November 13th 06, 12:58 AM posted to sci.space.history
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
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Posts: 2,865
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design


"Rusty" wrote in message
ups.com...
NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1171

".....have reported that the current design is underpowered to the tune
of a metric ton or more......"

".....Ares 1 would not be able to put the present Orion spacecraft
design (Crew Exploration Vehicle) into the orbit NASA desires......"

".....One possible solution to the Stick's current design problems is
to add side-mounted solid rocket motors....."




Ok, and at what point does someone say, "wait, our original assumptions have
all been proven wrong, we need to go back to the drawing board." T

This turkey is now adding an albabtross to its own body.

Also....


According to discussions on Nasaspaceflight.com the Ares 1 is in
trouble:
--The CEV will have to use its Service Module engine as a 3rd stage.
The CEV service module will have to add 1000fps to achieve orbital
velocity on a mission to the ISS.
--The Ares 1 payload weight is down to 22 m-tons.
--There may be problems with the Ares 1 wobbling at liftoff and
striking objects (umbilical
tower) near the pad in high winds.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...sts=67&start=1


-Rusty



  #4  
Old November 13th 06, 05:52 AM posted to sci.space.history
richard schumacher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 191
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

In article et,
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:

Ok, and at what point does someone say, "wait, our original assumptions have
all been proven wrong, we need to go back to the drawing board." T


Most likely never. Ares will keep thousands of people employed just as
it is, until some time after it is cancelled.
  #5  
Old November 13th 06, 06:54 AM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design



Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:


Ok, and at what point does someone say, "wait, our original assumptions have
all been proven wrong, we need to go back to the drawing board." T

This turkey is now adding an albabtross to its own body.



This one throws me.
The extended SRB should have been a easily calculated quantity based on
Shuttle experience.
Is the problem the second stage coming in too heavy, or is there a ISP
problem with it?
This should have never gotten to this point, and if they have this sort
of problems with Ares I, God knows how Ares V is going to go wrong, as
that has a lot more variables in its design.

Pat
  #6  
Old November 13th 06, 12:36 PM posted to sci.space.history
Rusty
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Posts: 617
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design


Pat Flannery wrote:
Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:


Ok, and at what point does someone say, "wait, our original assumptions have
all been proven wrong, we need to go back to the drawing board." T

This turkey is now adding an albabtross to its own body.



This one throws me.
The extended SRB should have been a easily calculated quantity based on
Shuttle experience.
Is the problem the second stage coming in too heavy, or is there a ISP
problem with it?
This should have never gotten to this point, and if they have this sort
of problems with Ares I, God knows how Ares V is going to go wrong, as
that has a lot more variables in its design.

Pat



Add the Ares 1 to the list of failed NASA programs (X-30 NASP, X-33,
X-38, OSP, HL-20)?

At one time they could design and build the Saturn V and land on the
moon in 8-years. Now they have trouble designing a rocket that can
carry a capsule to orbit.

Rusty

  #7  
Old November 13th 06, 02:20 PM posted to sci.space.history
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,865
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design


"Rusty" wrote in message
oups.com...

At one time they could design and build the Saturn V and land on the
moon in 8-years. Now they have trouble designing a rocket that can
carry a capsule to orbit.


True, but money was no object then.

And look where it got us anyway. 12 men on the moon. (and would have been
no more than 18 if all missions planned had flown and succeeded.)

Oh well.


Rusty



  #8  
Old November 13th 06, 02:53 PM posted to sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design



Rusty wrote:

This one throws me.
The extended SRB should have been a easily calculated quantity based on
Shuttle experience.
Is the problem the second stage coming in too heavy, or is there a ISP
problem with it?
This should have never gotten to this point, and if they have this sort
of problems with Ares I, God knows how Ares V is going to go wrong, as
that has a lot more variables in its design.

Pat




Add the Ares 1 to the list of failed NASA programs (X-30 NASP, X-33,
X-38, OSP, HL-20)?

At one time they could design and build the Saturn V and land on the
moon in 8-years. Now they have trouble designing a rocket that can
carry a capsule to orbit.



That was exactly what I was thinking of.
Did the design team that came up with Ares 1 get so hung up on getting
the contract that they oversold its performance, the way Lockheed
-Martin did with the X-33?

Pat
  #9  
Old November 13th 06, 04:11 PM posted to sci.space.history
[email protected]
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Posts: 85
Default NASA Encounters Problems With Ares 1 Launch Vehicle Design

Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:
True, but money was no object then.


I think that it's more to the point that there was a well-defined goal
to meet, and a timescale to follow; that's about the only situation
where government ever gets anything useful done. Without such a goal
you could give them an infinite amount of money and they'd still waste
it all.

Today there's just 'yeah, um, guys, we need to replace the shuttle
sometime and we're thinking maybe we'll go to Mars sooner or later, or
maybe the Moon or something, so see what you can come up. Oh, and make
sure that it doesn't get us laid off.'

I'm sure that even today's NASA could put men on the Moon in eight
years if there was a really pressing need to do so and someone in the
government willing to kick them in the ass if they didn't achieve it,
but there isn't.

Mark

 




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