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#11
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
On Apr 18, 10:11*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 886f02af-c357-4764-b44d- , says... On Apr 18, 12:47*am, Fred J. McCall wrote: bob haller wrote: On Apr 17, 11:44*am, Fred J. McCall wrote: bob haller wrote: Realtively speaking there are some nearby systems with planets in the habitible zone. *snoopy would be a excellent long term item to study, since its been exposed so long to deep space, unlike the long term studies done in earth orbit...... Only if we were going to build your hypothetical drone as a copy of Snoopy. *You see, examination of Snoopy won't tell us anything except how IT weathered. *This is why things like the Long Exposure Facility are DESIGNED; to tell us about materials other than those current things are built of. how long was the long exposure facility exposed to heliospheric orbit? Rather irrelevant. Jesus, I wish you'd learn something about SOMETHING... you are irrelevant....... you offer nothing but garbage to discussions here....... Bob, I think you're quite mistaken. *You're the one making baseless assertions. *Either support them, or drop them. I've got two issues with your assertion that retrieving Snoopy would be something worth doing. 1. *How is the environment in a a heliocentric orbit (like Snoopy) different than that in an earth orbit (like a geosync comsat)? *If so, are those differences statistically significant from a materials sciences point of view? 2. *Are the materials on Snoopy even relevant anymore? *Remember that it's been about half a century since the materials were chosen for the LEM design. *How relevant are those materials choices today? If you can't answer the above questions, then data from the results from materials exposure experiments on LDEF, Mir, and ISS should suffice. Jeff -- "the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer Examing snoopy in its current shape could tell us much about conditions in heliospheric orbit, and perhaps recover somethin g in earth orbit from around the same time and compare them. The LM was built very light weight, seeing how those old light thin materials held up could help the selection process in the future. LDEF, Mir, and ISS none of these have 40 years of exposure, and they are all earth orbit exposure.. you dont know what you dont know..... snoopy or other long term exposure artifacts can help future exploration. perhaps something about heliospheric causes wierd erosions of metal? |
#12
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
"Fred J. McCall" wrote in message
... bob haller wrote: Examing snoopy in its current shape could tell us much about conditions in heliospheric orbit, and perhaps recover somethin g in earth orbit from around the same time and compare them. Or it could tell us absolutely nothing useful, which is by far the more probable outcome. The LM was built very light weight, seeing how those old light thin materials held up could help the selection process in the future. Or it could tell us absolutely nothing useful, which is by far the more probable outcome. LDEF, Mir, and ISS none of these have 40 years of exposure, and they are all earth orbit exposure.. you dont know what you dont know..... There is no 'magic line', where suddenly everything degrades. These processes are gradual, so you can extrapolate out in time. snoopy or other long term exposure artifacts can help future exploration. Hogwash. You should have stuck with 'could' and merely looked ignorant, instead of looking like a stupid liar. perhaps something about heliospheric causes wierd erosions of metal? Like his tinfoil hat? -- Gordon Davie Edinburgh, Scotland "Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God." |
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
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#14
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
On Apr 18, 2:42*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 6eacbeec-81e3-4cd8-bf04-4c0e1a93aba7 @f18g2000vbs.googlegroups.com, says... On Apr 18, 10:11 am, Jeff Findley wrote: In article 886f02af-c357-4764-b44d- , says... On Apr 18, 12:47 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: bob haller wrote: On Apr 17, 11:44 am, Fred J. McCall wrote: bob haller wrote: Realtively speaking there are some nearby systems with planets in the habitible zone. snoopy would be a excellent long term item to study, since its been exposed so long to deep space, unlike the long term studies done in earth orbit...... Only if we were going to build your hypothetical drone as a copy of Snoopy. You see, examination of Snoopy won't tell us anything except how IT weathered. This is why things like the Long Exposure Facility are DESIGNED; to tell us about materials other than those current things are built of. how long was the long exposure facility exposed to heliospheric orbit? Rather irrelevant. Jesus, I wish you'd learn something about SOMETHING... you are irrelevant....... you offer nothing but garbage to discussions here....... Bob, I think you're quite mistaken. You're the one making baseless assertions. Either support them, or drop them. I've got two issues with your assertion that retrieving Snoopy would be something worth doing. 1. How is the environment in a a heliocentric orbit (like Snoopy) different than that in an earth orbit (like a geosync comsat)? If so, are those differences statistically significant from a materials sciences point of view? 2. Are the materials on Snoopy even relevant anymore? Remember that it's been about half a century since the materials were chosen for the LEM design. How relevant are those materials choices today? If you can't answer the above questions, then data from the results from materials exposure experiments on LDEF, Mir, and ISS should suffice. Jeff -- "the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer Examing snoopy in its current shape could tell us much about conditions in heliospheric orbit, and perhaps recover somethin g in earth orbit from around the same time and compare them. Please answer the question: *What is different about the environment in a heliocentric orbit when compared to an earth orbit? The LM was built very light weight, seeing how those old light thin materials held up could help the selection process in the future. The LM design is half a century old. *Name the specific materials used on Snoopy which are in use on today's spacecraft. LDEF, Mir, and ISS none of these have 40 years of exposure, and they are all earth orbit exposure.. Much of engineering is extrapolation from available data. *Why do you think this can't be done with the materials experiments which have been returned to earth for examination over the history of the space program? you dont know what you dont know..... For you, that would appear to be a lot. snoopy or other long term exposure artifacts can help future exploration. This is an unsupported assertion. perhaps something about heliospheric causes wierd *erosions of metal? In other words, you do not know of a single scientific reason for retrieving Snoopy. Jeff -- "the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer why did they retrieve the engines from the apollo saturn 5s? |
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
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#16
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
On Apr 18, 4:52*pm, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article 3ad4ac5b-f2ff-47fc-8c38-c57d1f3c7c00 @gb2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says... why did they retrieve the engines from the apollo saturn 5s? Because they the project was funded with *private* money. *This was *never* funded by NASA or any other US government agency, even though they've had nearly half a century to do so. On top of that, F-1 retrieval from the ocean is cheap and easy when compared with trying to retrieve Snoopy from its (unknown) heliocentric orbit. *I don't see *anyone* with private money jumping to fund your harebrained scheme to retrieve Snoopy, or any other "artifact" in deep space. *The government sure as heck isn't going to fund retrieval of "artifacts" from some unknown heliocentric orbit. Jeff -- "the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer dont be too certain, retrieval of asteroids has already been announced. plus with the decreasing costs to orbit thanks to musk a private mission could get funded.... it would have a lot in common with moving asteroids. Tracking snoopy will get easier while searching for asteroids, and theres also some saturn stages in heliospheric..... the easy part may be finding and moving these to near earth orbit. landing them will be harder however someone may want to retrieve hubble, and doing that could pave the way to return big things from orbit. ISS would make a awesome display think out of the box, the box isnt your friend |
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
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#18
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
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#19
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Soviet Mars 3 lander found?
On Apr 19, 7:30*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article , says... bob haller wrote: why did they retrieve the engines from the apollo saturn 5s? Ego. True. *Take a rich man with a wild hair... Jeff -- "the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer gee why have all the national parks? why was the liberty bell retained? how about indenpendence hall? why have the NASM and uhazey center? Why did so many places fight over getting a shuttle? Tourism is a important industry, and while fake shuttles or fake anything can be built the real thing is always better... |
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