by albert einstein

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:21:06 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 14.08.2017 um 22:16 schrieb Hägar:
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message ....

Am 13.08.2017 um 00:01 schrieb J. Clarke:

But Einstein spoke with a very strong German accent (like e.g. Wernher
von Braun), hence he did not learn the new language English too well.

Since the quoted text about socialism is flawless, I assume that
Einstein could not have written it (himself).

But possibly the text was edited or corrected on the foundation of a
text of Einstein himself. Possibly he wrote in German and that was
translated by a professional translator.

I think that Einstein's command of English was considerably better than
yours. I'm pretty sure that he understood that one would only refer to
_writing_ with an accent if one was attempting to be facetious.

If you mean that people with certain backgrounds make characteristic
grammatical errors, that may be true, but it is not an "accent", and when
one is writing for publication and (a) has time to review one's work, (b)
hand it to someone in the English department at a major university to
vet,
and (c) also has it reviewed by the publication's professional editor,
such
errors can be easily eliminated.

I found this nice video about typical German errors in speaking (or
writing) English:

"5 (more) mistakes made by Germans in English - 5 häufige Fehler im
Englischen"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhkZU-_xikY


Something along this line would allow to estimate the origin of the
speaker and how good someone can speak a foreign language.

It is mainly not the accent in a written text, but typical errors in
grammar, that are characteristic for the origin of the author.

So you are actually correct and 'accent' was the wrong word.

But which wrong word I use is typical for me as a German, who writes
English as a second language.

So these errors are, what we recognize as personal style of the speaker..
And this style we can compare with a kind of 'picture' we have about a
voice.

If these impressions match, we regard the person and the author of a
text as identical, otherwise not.


TH


*** Very good, Thomas, but the video clip is representative of the
recently divorced (from the EU) Queen's English, rather than its
American relative, and several of the iterations do not apply here.
But yes, there is confusion in German to English translations, as
shown he Englisch für Fortgeschrittene (English for Runaways)

https://www.facebook.com/ErinnerstDu...2935475487219/



There are less problems for German with the English language than for
English speakers with German.

Many people from England have a strong accent for all their life, even
if they live in Germany forever.

English make certain errors, because they base their German on different
linguistic concepts of the English language.

E.g. the phrase 'German' can mean several different things:

German language
person from German
citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany
speaker of the German language
the people of Germany
all German speakers

In German these has all different words.

So if someone mixes 'Speaker of the German language' with 'Citizen of
the FRG', we know with some degree of certainty, this person is from
England, even if the German pronunciation is perfect.

TH


So how does all this shed light on what Kennedy really said when he uttered the much discussed phrase, "Ich bin ein Berliner."?

Double-A

"Double-A" wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:21:06 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 14.08.2017 um 22:16 schrieb Hägar:
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message ...

Am 13.08.2017 um 00:01 schrieb J. Clarke:

But Einstein spoke with a very strong German accent (like e.g. Wernher
von Braun), hence he did not learn the new language English too well.

Since the quoted text about socialism is flawless, I assume that
Einstein could not have written it (himself).

But possibly the text was edited or corrected on the foundation of a
text of Einstein himself. Possibly he wrote in German and that was
translated by a professional translator.

I think that Einstein's command of English was considerably better than
yours. I'm pretty sure that he understood that one would only refer to
_writing_ with an accent if one was attempting to be facetious.

If you mean that people with certain backgrounds make characteristic
grammatical errors, that may be true, but it is not an "accent", and
when
one is writing for publication and (a) has time to review one's work,
(b)
hand it to someone in the English department at a major university to
vet,
and (c) also has it reviewed by the publication's professional editor,
such
errors can be easily eliminated.

I found this nice video about typical German errors in speaking (or
writing) English:

"5 (more) mistakes made by Germans in English - 5 häufige Fehler im
Englischen"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhkZU-_xikY


Something along this line would allow to estimate the origin of the
speaker and how good someone can speak a foreign language.

It is mainly not the accent in a written text, but typical errors in
grammar, that are characteristic for the origin of the author.

So you are actually correct and 'accent' was the wrong word.

But which wrong word I use is typical for me as a German, who writes
English as a second language.

So these errors are, what we recognize as personal style of the speaker.
And this style we can compare with a kind of 'picture' we have about a
voice.

If these impressions match, we regard the person and the author of a
text as identical, otherwise not.


TH


*** Very good, Thomas, but the video clip is representative of the
recently divorced (from the EU) Queen's English, rather than its
American relative, and several of the iterations do not apply here.
But yes, there is confusion in German to English translations, as
shown he Englisch für Fortgeschrittene (English for Runaways)

https://www.facebook.com/ErinnerstDu...2935475487219/



There are less problems for German with the English language than for
English speakers with German.

Many people from England have a strong accent for all their life, even
if they live in Germany forever.

English make certain errors, because they base their German on different
linguistic concepts of the English language.

E.g. the phrase 'German' can mean several different things:

German language
person from German
citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany
speaker of the German language
the people of Germany
all German speakers

In German these has all different words.

So if someone mixes 'Speaker of the German language' with 'Citizen of
the FRG', we know with some degree of certainty, this person is from
England, even if the German pronunciation is perfect.

TH


So how does all this shed light on what Kennedy really said when he uttered
the much discussed phrase, "Ich bin ein Berliner."?

Double-A


*** JFK actually said "Ich bin ein Liberal Wiener", but the German
Press misunderstood and no subsequent corrections were made.

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:38:03 PM UTC-7, Hägar wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:21:06 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 14.08.2017 um 22:16 schrieb Hägar:
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message ....

Am 13.08.2017 um 00:01 schrieb J. Clarke:

But Einstein spoke with a very strong German accent (like e.g. Wernher
von Braun), hence he did not learn the new language English too well.

Since the quoted text about socialism is flawless, I assume that
Einstein could not have written it (himself).

But possibly the text was edited or corrected on the foundation of a
text of Einstein himself. Possibly he wrote in German and that was
translated by a professional translator.

I think that Einstein's command of English was considerably better than
yours. I'm pretty sure that he understood that one would only refer to
_writing_ with an accent if one was attempting to be facetious.

If you mean that people with certain backgrounds make characteristic
grammatical errors, that may be true, but it is not an "accent", and
when
one is writing for publication and (a) has time to review one's work,
(b)
hand it to someone in the English department at a major university to
vet,
and (c) also has it reviewed by the publication's professional editor,
such
errors can be easily eliminated.

I found this nice video about typical German errors in speaking (or
writing) English:

"5 (more) mistakes made by Germans in English - 5 häufige Fehler im
Englischen"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhkZU-_xikY


Something along this line would allow to estimate the origin of the
speaker and how good someone can speak a foreign language.

It is mainly not the accent in a written text, but typical errors in
grammar, that are characteristic for the origin of the author.

So you are actually correct and 'accent' was the wrong word.

But which wrong word I use is typical for me as a German, who writes
English as a second language.

So these errors are, what we recognize as personal style of the speaker.
And this style we can compare with a kind of 'picture' we have about a
voice.

If these impressions match, we regard the person and the author of a
text as identical, otherwise not.


TH


*** Very good, Thomas, but the video clip is representative of the
recently divorced (from the EU) Queen's English, rather than its
American relative, and several of the iterations do not apply here.
But yes, there is confusion in German to English translations, as
shown he Englisch für Fortgeschrittene (English for Runaways)

https://www.facebook.com/ErinnerstDu...2935475487219/



There are less problems for German with the English language than for
English speakers with German.

Many people from England have a strong accent for all their life, even
if they live in Germany forever.

English make certain errors, because they base their German on different
linguistic concepts of the English language.

E.g. the phrase 'German' can mean several different things:

German language
person from German
citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany
speaker of the German language
the people of Germany
all German speakers

In German these has all different words.

So if someone mixes 'Speaker of the German language' with 'Citizen of
the FRG', we know with some degree of certainty, this person is from
England, even if the German pronunciation is perfect.

TH


So how does all this shed light on what Kennedy really said when he uttered
the much discussed phrase, "Ich bin ein Berliner."?

Double-A


*** JFK actually said "Ich bin ein Liberal Wiener", but the German
Press misunderstood and no subsequent corrections were made.


Didn't you mean "Liberale"?

Double-A

"Double-A" wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:38:03 PM UTC-7, Hägar wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
...

On Tuesday, August 15, 2017 at 1:21:06 AM UTC-7, Thomas Heger wrote:
Am 14.08.2017 um 22:16 schrieb Hägar:
"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...

Am 13.08.2017 um 00:01 schrieb J. Clarke:

But Einstein spoke with a very strong German accent (like e.g.
Wernher
von Braun), hence he did not learn the new language English too
well.

Since the quoted text about socialism is flawless, I assume that
Einstein could not have written it (himself).

But possibly the text was edited or corrected on the foundation of a
text of Einstein himself. Possibly he wrote in German and that was
translated by a professional translator.

I think that Einstein's command of English was considerably better
than
yours. I'm pretty sure that he understood that one would only refer
to
_writing_ with an accent if one was attempting to be facetious.

If you mean that people with certain backgrounds make characteristic
grammatical errors, that may be true, but it is not an "accent", and
when
one is writing for publication and (a) has time to review one's work,
(b)
hand it to someone in the English department at a major university to
vet,
and (c) also has it reviewed by the publication's professional
editor,
such
errors can be easily eliminated.

I found this nice video about typical German errors in speaking (or
writing) English:

"5 (more) mistakes made by Germans in English - 5 häufige Fehler im
Englischen"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhkZU-_xikY


Something along this line would allow to estimate the origin of the
speaker and how good someone can speak a foreign language.

It is mainly not the accent in a written text, but typical errors in
grammar, that are characteristic for the origin of the author.

So you are actually correct and 'accent' was the wrong word.

But which wrong word I use is typical for me as a German, who writes
English as a second language.

So these errors are, what we recognize as personal style of the
speaker.
And this style we can compare with a kind of 'picture' we have about a
voice.

If these impressions match, we regard the person and the author of a
text as identical, otherwise not.


TH


*** Very good, Thomas, but the video clip is representative of the
recently divorced (from the EU) Queen's English, rather than its
American relative, and several of the iterations do not apply here.
But yes, there is confusion in German to English translations, as
shown he Englisch für Fortgeschrittene (English for Runaways)

https://www.facebook.com/ErinnerstDu...2935475487219/



There are less problems for German with the English language than for
English speakers with German.

Many people from England have a strong accent for all their life, even
if they live in Germany forever.

English make certain errors, because they base their German on different
linguistic concepts of the English language.

E.g. the phrase 'German' can mean several different things:

German language
person from German
citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany
speaker of the German language
the people of Germany
all German speakers

In German these has all different words.

So if someone mixes 'Speaker of the German language' with 'Citizen of
the FRG', we know with some degree of certainty, this person is from
England, even if the German pronunciation is perfect.

TH


So how does all this shed light on what Kennedy really said when he
uttered
the much discussed phrase, "Ich bin ein Berliner."?

Double-A


*** JFK actually said "Ich bin ein Liberal Wiener", but the German
Press misunderstood and no subsequent corrections were made.


Didn't you mean "Liberale"?

Double-A

*** Actually it was "Liberaler Wiener" ... didn't think you
knew the difference.