What's wrong with there being ETs (smarter than us none the less)

If one were to look up the sky hundreds, thousands of years ago in the
night, he would see a clear view to the Milky Way, and not just a few
stars.

The first question one may ask: Is there life out there?

If one is influenced in mass belief systems like the God **** the
Catholic Church, he may not ask such questions and assume Earth is in
the center of the Universe. The Catholic Church for two milennia
killed people who brought opposing views, scientists were put to hard
positions. Even today American Christians have a bad view of science,
and they say it on Christian Radio Stations.

In Europe and elsewhere people don't like American mass mentalities in
2007.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:41:42 -0700, in a place far, far away,
" made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:

If one were to look up the sky hundreds, thousands of years ago in the
night, he would see a clear view to the Milky Way, and not just a few
stars.

The first question one may ask: Is there life out there?

If one is influenced in mass belief systems like the God **** the
Catholic Church, he may not ask such questions and assume Earth is in
the center of the Universe. The Catholic Church for two milennia
killed people who brought opposing views, scientists were put to hard
positions. Even today American Christians have a bad view of science,
and they say it on Christian Radio Stations.

In Europe and elsewhere people don't like American mass mentalities in
2007.

Another ignorant comment from the "mass mentalities of Europe and
elsewhere."

On Sep 13, 8:41 am, " wrote:
If one were to look up the sky hundreds, thousands of years ago in the
night, he would see a clear view to the Milky Way, and not just a few
stars.

The first question one may ask: Is there life out there?

How about, God save us all if there isn't.


If one is influenced in mass belief systems like the God **** the
Catholic Church, he may not ask such questions and assume Earth is in
the center of the Universe. The Catholic Church for two milennia
killed people who brought opposing views, scientists were put to hard
positions. Even today American Christians have a bad view of science,
and they say it on Christian Radio Stations.

In Europe and elsewhere people don't like American mass mentalities in
2007.

That's all 100+% true, and it's only getting worse off by the day.

Even our local KSTW (channel 11) "The Daily Buzz" news program has
been recently terminated because they are not neatly Yiddish enough,
or in other words The Daily Buzz simply wasn't enough of a team
player. Go figure, why all the sudden news media blackout?
- Brad Guth -

On Sep 13, 12:00 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Sep 13, 8:41 am, " wrote:

If one were to look up the sky hundreds, thousands of years ago in the
night, he would see a clear view to the Milky Way, and not just a few
stars.

The first question one may ask: Is there life out there?

How about, God save us all if there isn't.



If one is influenced in mass belief systems like the God **** the
Catholic Church, he may not ask such questions and assume Earth is in
the center of the Universe. The Catholic Church for two milennia
killed people who brought opposing views, scientists were put to hard
positions. Even today American Christians have a bad view of science,
and they say it on Christian Radio Stations.

In Europe and elsewhere people don't like American mass mentalities in
2007.

That's all 100+% true, and it's only getting worse off by the day.

Even our local KSTW (channel 11) "The Daily Buzz" news program has
been recently terminated because they are not neatly Yiddish enough,
or in other words The Daily Buzz simply wasn't enough of a team
player. Go figure, why all the sudden news media blackout?
- Brad Guth -

If the WHOLE EARTH was the CREATION of an advanced civilization,
where does that place the competitive factions of transpor-
tational infrastructure in the light of ancient prophecy?
The current infrastructure (roadways, bridges, gasoline, oil,
producers,etc.) have ALREADY become the infrastructure
of a BYGONE ERA.

Just because we have those trains of progress that have
literally railroaded us into the police state that currently
exists, is absolutely no reason to believe that a limited
technology can make life any easier in the long run,
that is, if the transnationists continue to "tweak"
the limited technology with the borrowed time of newly
borrowed, freshly washed, and accurately printed,
antiquated capital.

IMO, the "only act in town" that has been legally
forced to comply with the retrograded capital are the
Bush & Co. transnationalists in Iraq. In that sense,
transnationalism has to be a good thing, but I also
sense that, as a result of the war in Iraq, there has
simultaneously been a reduction in our technological
sovereignity, because of our EVER-INCREASING
DEPENDENCE ON THE METERED ENERGY, METERED TELEVISION,
METERED CELL PHONE TRANSMISSIONS, METERED TAXES -
THE MICROMANAGEMENT AND METERING OF RETROGRADE
CAPITALISM HAS BECOME LIKE A

"... VAST ASSORTMENT OF COLORED BEADS WITHOUT A STRING
TO HOLD THEM TOGETHER." [1]

(Fractals at least have a string that holds them
together!!)

BUT WHO HAS METERED THE GROWTH OF BUREAUCRACY??

Yet aren't we becoming not only paranoid, but DELUSIONAL
for the sake of RETROGRADE TECHNOLOGY, and ALSO
IN THE NAME OF THE PERCEIVED NATIONAL SECURITY,
if those who FUND OUR GOVERNMENT ARE FUNDING IT
AT THE LEISURE OF RETROGRADE CAPITALISTS, AS
WELL AS THE CONSTITUENT CRONYS WHO ARE
*BOUGHT AND PAID FOR* IN THEIR LUST FOR POWER???

I COMPLETELY REJECT ANY CANDIDATE WHO DOES
NOT ADDRESS THIS VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE WITH
SOME REAL, SUBSTANTIVE, "OUTSIDE-THE-BOX"
CRITICAL THOUGHT PROCESSES, THAT SHOULD NOT
ONLY ACT AS THE ARBITER OF CHANGE, BUT ALSO
HAVE THE WILL, FORTITUDE, STAMINA, AND INTEGRITY
TO ENFORCE A NEW R & D PROTOCOL, THAT WOULD
FREE THIS NATION FROM ITS DEPENDENCY ON FOREIGN
OIL, EXPAND THE FRONTIER OF SPACE BY LIBERATING
EARTH-TO-ORBIT TECHNOLOGY FROM "RAILROAD
CAPITALISM", AND INSTITUTE A MARSHALL PLAN THAT
WOULD, PER REVIEW, BEGIN TO "REIGN IN" ANY AND ALL
OF THE REDUNDANT TECHNOLOGIES, WITH A MODERNIZED
AND MASS PRODUCED (RETRAINING & JOB-CREATING)
ECONOMIC VERSION FOR A NEW, TRANSPORTATIONAL
INFRASTRUCTURE, THAT WILL MEET THE NEEDS OF THE
21ST CENTURY AND BEYOND.

HAVEN'T HOMESTEADS BECOME SO ATTACHED TO THE
ROADS THAT IT HAS BECOME "EASIER FOR A CAMEL TO
GO THROUGH THE EYE OF A NEEDLE THAN IT IS FOR A
RICH MAN TO ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN"???

IF THE ANSWER IS YES, THEN THE RESULT IS THAT
THE MONOPOLISTIC ENERGY MARKETS HAVE BECOME TOO
BURGEONING, WITHOUT BECOMING LEANLY DIVERSIFIED
ENOUGH IN ORDER TO EXPAND THE TECHNOLOGICAL BASE
WITH REVOLUTIONIZED COMPETITION. THE FED WANTS
TO LIMIT "INDUSTRIALIZATION" BY EARMARKING FUNDS
ONLY AT FOUR PERCENT GROWTH, WITHOUT TYING THEM
TO AN ADVANCED EARTH-TO-ORBIT AND BEYOND
TECHNOLOGY, SO ANY ADVANCE IN THIS AREA WILL
HAVE TO COME FROM OUTSIDE OF THE U.S.!!!

WE'RE BECOMING A NATION OF GLORIFIED ROAD
POLICE, ON A WITCHUNT FOR INHABITANTS WHO
ARE NOT PART OF OUR DRIVING ESTABLISHMENT.

THE STATES HAVE BECOME TOO BURDENED WITH
CORPOATE TRIAL LAWYERS TO PERMIT THE TYPE OF
TESTING AND MARKETIZATION THAT ADVANCED
PROPULSION TECHNOLOGY WARRANTS - THE FAT
MARKETS OF STREAMLINED 'RUSE TECHNOLOGY'
WILL CONTINUE TO EXPATRIATE THE BEST SCIENCE
AND ENGINEERING FROM NOT ONLY THE MARKETPLACE,
BUT ALSO FROM OUR COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

THIS TRAGEDY OF HEROS WILL HAPPEN, IF THE
ANTIQUATED, IDEALIST TECHNOLOGY CONTINUES
TO SYLLOGIZE AND BANKRUPT OUR CULTURE.

WE HAVE ALL THE CONSTITUENT ELEMENTS INTER-
NATIONALLY THAT WILL SET THE STAGE FOR A
MASTERFUL TECHNOLOGICAL TRAGEDY:

".. There are in tragedy as a whole, cosidered as a
special form, six constituent elements, viz. Plot,
Character, Language, Thought, Language, and Melody.
Of these elements, two [Language and Melody] are
the media in which they effect the imitation, one
[Spectacle] is the manner, and three [Plot,
Character, and Thought] are the objects they imitate;
and besides these there are no other parts."

The Spectacle is the World Trade Center Disaster.
The characters are Bin Laden, Bush, Cheney, Col.
Betrayas, Saddam Hussein, the Al Queda operatives,
the presidential candidates, and the American people.
The language and melody are the U.S. Media.

The plot is to destroy America, the character is
militaristic, and the thought? The thought
may be the only thing that saves us from a
completely militaristic society, and, at least, is
able to stretch the plot from finishing its course
within the next decade, but that's all. That's all
that's happening here on planet earth. After that,
it's purely a game of survival.


[1] The Gutenberg Elegies, The Fate of Reading in an
Electronic Age, p. 94

[2] Who was Who in the Greek World, Diana Bowder,
Washington Signature Press, Aristotle, p. 98

[3] The Norton Anthology of World Masterpieces,
Fifth Edition, Aristotle, Poetics, p. 843


AMERICAN

On Sep 13, 11:40 am, American wrote:
WE HAVE ALL THE CONSTITUENT ELEMENTS INTER-
NATIONALLY THAT WILL SET THE STAGE FOR A
MASTERFUL TECHNOLOGICAL TRAGEDY:

".. There are in tragedy as a whole, cosidered as a
special form, six constituent elements, viz. Plot,
Character, Language, Thought, Language, and Melody.
Of these elements, two [Language and Melody] are
the media in which they effect the imitation, one
[Spectacle] is the manner, and three [Plot,
Character, and Thought] are the objects they imitate;
and besides these there are no other parts."

The Spectacle is the World Trade Center Disaster.
The characters are Bin Laden, Bush, Cheney, Col.
Betrayas, Saddam Hussein, the Al Queda operatives,
the presidential candidates, and the American people.
The language and melody are the U.S. Media.

The plot is to destroy America, the character is
militaristic, and the thought? The thought
may be the only thing that saves us from a
completely militaristic society, and, at least, is
able to stretch the plot from finishing its course
within the next decade, but that's all. That's all
that's happening here on planet earth. After that,
it's purely a game of survival.

[1] The Gutenberg Elegies, The Fate of Reading in an
Electronic Age, p. 94

[2] Who was Who in the Greek World, Diana Bowder,
Washington Signature Press, Aristotle, p. 98

[3] The Norton Anthology of World Masterpieces,
Fifth Edition, Aristotle, Poetics, p. 843

AMERICAN- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Perhaps smart enough and kind enough ETs (after they stop laughing
their butts off) will eventually come to our salvation before our fat
lady ever gets to sing. At least let us hope so.
- Brad Guth -

wrote in message
oups.com...
In Europe and elsewhere people don't like American mass mentalities in
2007.

That's collective European guilt.

America is actually taking on Europe's responsibilities around the world,
instead of simply talking about them.

Bosnia was in Europe's own back yard, and you did *nothing*. It took NATO-
that is, the United States, to actually do anything.

Europe actually *encouraged* the growth of violent Islamist groups by
tolerating their actions, some of which was generated as a direct result of
how Europeans divided the Middle East, and now the United States has to
clean up the mess.

I'd give a **** about Europe's opinion if Europe had clean hands. It was,
after all, *France, Germany and Russia* that were actively violating the
economic sanctions against Iraq, as documents found by the US shows.

Europe need to talk less and act a lot more.

On Aug 26, 5:08 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Aug 22, 6:03 pm, mike3 wrote:

On Jul 24, 6:14 pm, BradGuth wrote:
Interstellar travels or panspermia on behalf of accommodating our
frail DNA needs a serious butt load of physical shielding, either
by the likes of thick salty ice or via whatever artificial means.

And if you can cancel out gravity, what's the problem with it?
Or build a warp drive?

I don't understand. Why "cancel out gravity"? Why build a "warp
drive"?


Who says our physics is the end of the line?

Why not just cancel out human naysayism? (at least that's doable)

Why not allow thoo se regular laws of physics to function off-world.

How would yourself utilize a few spare megaWatts or gigaWatts worth of
clean and renewable energy, such as on behalf of surviving on Venus?

BTW, how would you survive a interstellar migration while onboard a
rogue planet or moon, without benefit of a thick layer of ice or
without salt?
- Brad Guth

Do you think that's any harder than surviving on Venus? No organic
lifeform of any great complexity can survive on Venus, period. End of
story. If you want a machine or artificial lifeform to survive there,
then surely it could also be made to survive the interstellar trip.
Ergo,
the Venus thing is more or less moot.

On Sep 9, 11:07 am, BradGuth wrote:
On Sep 8, 1:29 pm, mike3 wrote:

On Aug 26, 5:16 pm, BradGuth wrote:
I hate bad Jews, bad Yids and most Zionist that downright suck. How
about yourself?

But their Jewishness seems to be an important factor. That
is bigoted. If they are bad as people, then I would not approve
of that, but that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM BEING JEWS!
That is what you cannot get your head around. Jewishness
ITSELF is not bad. A Jew may be good or bad, but it has
nothing to do with him or her being Jewish. If you think it DOES,
and you just hate ALL Jews, then you are Bigoted.

If any faith-based group fails to police their own kind, what does
that make them? Apparently in your good book, that swarm like mindset
is what makes them the one and only good guys, and otherwise the very
reason why THEIR Hitler and our resident warlord president got as far
as they did.

No, I did not say that.

snip
I do not love everything Bushasser does, by the way.
Where at all have I supported the wars?

But, where have you so much as shared one bad word against them blood
and oil sucking *******s? Have you ever stipulated that GW Bush is a
SOB born-again liar, or of something worse, and having backed that up
with those reasons as to why you think our president should be
terminated/impeached, or perhaps at the very least banished from
Earth.


Go and look up on Google Groups: "mike3 group:alt.politics.bush"
and you will read everything I've said about Bush and co.'s policy.

At least I've offered viable alternatives to war, clean and renewable
energy and further resolve as to accomplishing the very salvation of
our badly failing environment. I've also offered a great deal of
focus upon obtainable off-world goals that would have direct benefit
to the lower 99% of humanity (the upper 1% can fend for themselves).

Ideally that 1% must be expanded as far as possible.

How about your status quo or bust self? (implying that you and your
kind wouldn't revise anything even if you could)

I would revise a lot. You go and show me how to become able to do
it and I'll do it.




Why the heck though to I have to hate Jews, just because they
are JEWS? THAT is bigotry, and THAT is WRONG. And NOTHING is
unavoidable -- that's one belief I am NOT giving up, PERIOD.

Good for yourself, as that's exactly my stance from the very get go.
BTW, whom and/or of which cult like groups of individuals do you think
are the most in charge of all that matters? How about sharing a mike3
top 10 listing?


Not sure of a top 10, but I can name a top 3 offhand:

1. Big business.

2. Any extremist religious group (not *all* religious groups, but the
extremist ones.).

3. The American government, George W. Bush included.



I don't love "everything" anyone DOES, but it is those
ACTIONS that are the problem, NOT the person's
religion, race, or whatever -- those are totally irrelevant.

Well, it's certainly having been the "actions" of those bad usenet
Jews that suck and blow.

Alright, the _actions_ then. That's what you should be going after.

They say one thing to one another and then
turn as a borg like swarm in order to topic/author stalk, bash and/or
banish upon whatever goes the least bit against their Old Testament.
It's as though Zion interpretations of those regular laws of physics
and of the best available science is all that counts. As I've often
said before about these usenet Yids, that any kind of revisionism is
simply not allowed, no matters what the physics or best available
science has to say. So, you tell me what that kind of topic/author
stalking and of their naysayism bigoted gauntlet has anything to do
with being a good Jew or whatever faith-basted cult.

When was the last time you spoke out against those individuals as
having caused this Earth so much collateral damage and carnage of the
innocent? Have you delivered one bad word against our resident LLPOF
warlord(GW Bush)?

I've delivered a lot of critiques of all sorts of Bush stuff again and
again.
Look up: "mike3 group:alt.politics.bush" on Google Groups.

Have you ever named names and for instance having
called a bad Jew a bad Jew?

Am I being a bad Mennonite? If so, where's my collateral damage and
carnage of the innocent?



If you want me to hate Jews because they are Jews,
then you just want more BIGOTRY. It does not matter
if it's a Jew, a Christian, even a rock hard atheist doing
something -- the merit is totally unaffected by
those things.

Obviously you read into and/or interpret only whatever you want to
believe others say.

Proof being that I never once said that all Jews are bad.

Thank you for correcting my error.

In fact,
I've said many times that most Jews are well above the norm in being
good folks, that simply can't manage to police their own kind of
certified bad Jews, such as all of those bad ones to be found right
here in their anti-think-tank usenet from hell that want's nothing
whatsoever to do with anything off-world unless it's inert or merely
eye candy, that's never to be interpreted as having hosted any form of
intelligent other life. In other words of a typically bad usenet Jew
or pretend atheists, in their skewed faith-based mindset is where
Earth is the one and only Godly planet with any form of life to
behold, and yet yourself and others of your kind see nothing wrong
with any of that Jewish buttology spewed crapolla.

On a scale or pecking order of 1-10, which faith-base cults are most
incharge? (and don't pull any of that pretend-atheists crap on us)
- Brad Guth -

Well in the Western world, it seems extreme fundamentalist
Christianity is a fairly big one. Fundamentalist Christians
include George Bush and those who helped him get in power.
1-10? 6, maybe 7. 10 goes to the big megacorporations, who
worship the "almighty dollar" as their object of "faith" and their
"religion". This includes companies like Halliburton, Exxon-Mobil,
Microsoft, and others.

Not sure about the Eastern world, but again, fundamentalist
groups like Islamic radicals probably would go there. Fundamentalism
seems to have a habit of getting into power.

On Aug 23, 1:54 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Aug 22, 5:33 pm, mike3 wrote:



On Jul 6, 3:44 pm, Joe Strout wrote:

In article . com,

mike3 wrote:
Carbon, for one, is quite likely to play a significant role simply
because
it is the only element that really can do all the complex gymnastics
needed for life. This is due to PHYSICAL LAW. Quantum physics --
the physics that controls atomic and molecular phenomena -- descibes
how the rules of chemistry come about. Other candidates like silicon
just do not seem capable of the stuff carbon can do, making life based
on it, much less INTELLIGENT life, highly unlikely.

And water is the universal solvent -- it's hard to beat. Other
solvents do not work as well in other places.

To be fair, our view of this may be biased by our own experience (and in
particular, with what passes for "room temperature" on our planet.
There's probably a lot of chemistry that takes place at much colder or
hotter temperatures that we've barely scratched the surface of, in
comparison, simply because we only encounter those conditions in the lab
rather than being immersed in them every day for all of history.

So, I remain agnostic on whether there are other chemistries that can
support life as well as carbon and water.

It is possible, perhaps, but the complexity is the question. See it's
all
about Complexity. As a rule, the higher the temperature, the less
complicated the molecules can become. The really complicated
molecules of biology therefore have a low max temperature.
And there are only a few elements that can actually support
complicated structures -- carbon is the best one. The close
cousin, silicon, is still not stable enough in those configurations.

I have no arguments against any of that. Of Venus originated/evolved
life may in fact be highly complex, as I'd said being extensively
exoskeletal comes into mind.


How does that solve the fundamental problem of molecular
composition and properties, anyway?

Therefore, how exactly are the intelligent forms of life on Venus
getting around those pesky thermal issues?
- Brad Guth

They don't, unless they're artificial forms of life designed by
another
lifeform that evolved in a more suitable environment for such things.

On Aug 23, 1:46 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Aug 22, 5:29 pm, mike3 wrote:



On Aug 4, 6:21 am, BradGuth wrote:

On Aug 3, 9:43 pm, mike3 wrote:

On Jul 6, 3:12 pm, BradGuth wrote:
snip massive posting

Your whole thing is based on a flawed assumption you made
about my case. You thought I didn't think extraterrestrial
life/intelligence could exist. I did not say that at all. Rather I
simply pointed out errors or places where your case was
found wanting.

I want lots of things to happen, especially on behalf of whatever's so
nearby as Venus.

Heh. I think I meant that the case had some deficiency in logic
or facts.

Lack of logic or facts is what got us into Iraq, and obviously you and
others of your kind have no moral problems with any of that.


Oh I have all sorts of problems with it and I've offed pretty much
all the "others of my kind".

I have LOTS AND LOTS OF PROBLEMS with Bush and America's
policy in general towards the world and it's people.

I've never thought Bush was a good guy.

snip
Well obviously we can't argue againt that analogy, can we. Although,
many of your kind think that America should be in charge of all global
energy that's fossil or yellowcake, even if it's unproven that such
energy reserves are going to ever be utilized against us.


I do not think anything of the sort. I think America is doing a bad,
bad thing.

snip
Why are you into excluding the off-world use of those regular laws of
physics?


On the contrary, I'm assuming those laws hold universally. Note
my argument was based off thermodynamics.