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Spotting Scope or Binoculars?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 17th 03, 11:12 PM
John Honan
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Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been cloud
cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding my
way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects. I'm
in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a
trip to a dark site one of these days!)

At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope
(the 7x50's are borrowed) I've spent some time reading reviews and forums
looking for the best options for a new pair of binoculars - And I can't
decide between getting binoculars or a spotting scope. I've narrowed it down
to the following; (It's just coincidence that they're all Nikon - honest!)

- Nikon 12x50 Se cf binoculars (I assume these are Superior E) 780 euro
- Nikon 10x42 Se cf binoculars 720 euro
- Nikon spotting scope 80A
http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news...ope80_e_00.htm 515 euro (with
20-60 zoom)

Binocular advantages:
Using 2 eyes, not one - how much difference does this really make?
Binocular astronomers love the Nikon Superiors!
Robust
General purpose use, take them anywhere
Easier to hold than a scope (?)

Scope advantages:
80mm aperture versus 50mm in the binoculars
20-60 zoom (don't know how useable the 60 zoom would be, wouldn't this give
a *very* small exit pupil?)
Robust, rubber coated
Can take various lenses, and possibly camera adapter (almost a small
refractor telescope)
Cost less (although not really a prob if the binocs would be a better
choice)

I haven't read much about scopes in this newsgroup. Do people generally
favour binoculars for astronomy? I've looked at Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leica
as well. Leica Trinovids are another option, although this would be pushing
the price up even more, and I think I'd be happy with the Nikon Superiors.
If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you buy?

One last question, what is 'eye relief' ? What effect does it have when
you're using a scope with poor eye relief?

Thanks,
John.


  #2  
Old September 17th 03, 11:26 PM
Sherry Katz
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Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

If your interest is astronomy then a spotting scope is not the right tool.
You'd be better off with a telescope. You can get a short tube telescope
for $199 and get both a 90 degree and 45 degree mirror, which will give you
a decent wide angle observing tool. It will also take higher powers than a
spotting scope.

Of the binoculars you are looking at - I'd say the 12x50SE would be the best
for astronomy although the 10x42 might be OK too. However, you'd need to
use a tripod with either of them. I prefer 7x50 for astronomy because I can
use it handheld.

Eye relief matters if you wear glasses. If you don't then it's not an
issue. Although sometimes I find long eye relief to be a bit of a pain
because I have to hold the glasses further away than I want to.


"John Honan" wrote in message
...
I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been

cloud
cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding

my
way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects.

I'm
in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a
trip to a dark site one of these days!)

At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope
(the 7x50's are borrowed) I've spent some time reading reviews and forums
looking for the best options for a new pair of binoculars - And I can't
decide between getting binoculars or a spotting scope. I've narrowed it

down
to the following; (It's just coincidence that they're all Nikon - honest!)

- Nikon 12x50 Se cf binoculars (I assume these are Superior E) 780 euro
- Nikon 10x42 Se cf binoculars 720 euro
- Nikon spotting scope 80A
http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news...ope80_e_00.htm 515 euro (with
20-60 zoom)

Binocular advantages:
Using 2 eyes, not one - how much difference does this really make?
Binocular astronomers love the Nikon Superiors!
Robust
General purpose use, take them anywhere
Easier to hold than a scope (?)

Scope advantages:
80mm aperture versus 50mm in the binoculars
20-60 zoom (don't know how useable the 60 zoom would be, wouldn't this

give
a *very* small exit pupil?)
Robust, rubber coated
Can take various lenses, and possibly camera adapter (almost a small
refractor telescope)
Cost less (although not really a prob if the binocs would be a better
choice)

I haven't read much about scopes in this newsgroup. Do people generally
favour binoculars for astronomy? I've looked at Zeiss, Swarovski, and

Leica
as well. Leica Trinovids are another option, although this would be

pushing
the price up even more, and I think I'd be happy with the Nikon Superiors.
If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you

buy?

One last question, what is 'eye relief' ? What effect does it have when
you're using a scope with poor eye relief?

Thanks,
John.




  #3  
Old September 18th 03, 12:15 AM
Jon Isaacs
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you buy?

I would buy a decent quality Astroscope, something that is big enough to do
some real damage to the Messier list and I also buy an decent pair of
binoculars, nothing fancy, probably 100 Euro's or so.

When it comes to astronomy, aperture is king. An 8 or 10 inch scope under
urban skies will show more detail of most deep sky objects than the best 80mm
refractor will in a dark sky spot.

Before you make a purchase, try to find a local astronomy club nearby and get a
look through some scopes that the night sky.

Make a decision based on some first hand experience..

Thats what I'd do.

jon
  #4  
Old September 18th 03, 03:22 AM
Jim
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

I have a very low opinion of binoculars after owning a pair of very good
ones. They are too heavy to hand-hold steady for any length of time. Your
arms will tire more quickly than you can believe. Eventually you will come
to the conclusion that you need a tripod.

Using tripod mounted binoculars are a pain as well since viewing near the
zenith is a contortionist's nightmare.

After going through the hassle of mounting my binos, I came to the
conclusion that a small grab'n go scope, like my 4" refractor was more
desirable by far, since I'm going to mount it anyway.

Now I can sweep the star fields at low power or look at mars at 200X. You
can't do that with binos!




"John Honan" wrote in message
...
I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been

cloud
cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding

my
way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects.

I'm
in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a
trip to a dark site one of these days!)

At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope
(the 7x50's are borrowed) I've spent some time reading reviews and forums
looking for the best options for a new pair of binoculars - And I can't
decide between getting binoculars or a spotting scope. I've narrowed it

down
to the following; (It's just coincidence that they're all Nikon - honest!)

- Nikon 12x50 Se cf binoculars (I assume these are Superior E) 780 euro
- Nikon 10x42 Se cf binoculars 720 euro
- Nikon spotting scope 80A
http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/news...ope80_e_00.htm 515 euro (with
20-60 zoom)

Binocular advantages:
Using 2 eyes, not one - how much difference does this really make?
Binocular astronomers love the Nikon Superiors!
Robust
General purpose use, take them anywhere
Easier to hold than a scope (?)

Scope advantages:
80mm aperture versus 50mm in the binoculars
20-60 zoom (don't know how useable the 60 zoom would be, wouldn't this

give
a *very* small exit pupil?)
Robust, rubber coated
Can take various lenses, and possibly camera adapter (almost a small
refractor telescope)
Cost less (although not really a prob if the binocs would be a better
choice)

I haven't read much about scopes in this newsgroup. Do people generally
favour binoculars for astronomy? I've looked at Zeiss, Swarovski, and

Leica
as well. Leica Trinovids are another option, although this would be

pushing
the price up even more, and I think I'd be happy with the Nikon Superiors.
If you had 700 euro burning a hole in your pocket, which one would you

buy?

One last question, what is 'eye relief' ? What effect does it have when
you're using a scope with poor eye relief?

Thanks,
John.




  #5  
Old September 18th 03, 03:28 AM
Phil Wheeler
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

Jim wrote:
I have a very low opinion of binoculars after owning a pair of very good
ones. They are too heavy to hand-hold steady for any length of time. Your
arms will tire more quickly than you can believe. Eventually you will come
to the conclusion that you need a tripod.

Using tripod mounted binoculars are a pain as well since viewing near the
zenith is a contortionist's nightmare.


The real answer with binos is a parallelogram mount. My Unimount makes
using binos a real joy. And I can mount a spotting scope or camera on
it equally well.

Phil

  #6  
Old September 18th 03, 04:43 AM
Kruger Kid
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

Myself I would pick binoculars.
You can use the Binoculars anytime you want. They are hand holdable,
if you get something under around 10x. They do not need a tripod. You
can use them to scan the heavens, watch whales, birds or to see what
your neighbor is up to ;-)

You would never be sorry if you got a GOOD pair of binoculars.

Kruger



  #7  
Old September 18th 03, 04:45 AM
Trane Francks
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

On 2003-09-18 11:28 +0900, Phil Wheeler wrote:

The real answer with binos is a parallelogram mount. My Unimount makes


No, the real answer is a Starchair TM 3000!

http://www.starchair.com/

;^)

trane
--
//------------------------------------------------------------
// Trane Francks Tokyo, Japan
// Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty.
//
http://mp3.com/trane_francks/

  #8  
Old September 18th 03, 05:12 AM
Jon Isaacs
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

You would never be sorry if you got a GOOD pair of binoculars.

Kruger


A decent pair of binoculars is a nice thing but anyway you cut the cake,
binoculars are limited. A pair of $100 10x50's will provide some nice views
and there will be enough left to buy a scope that can dial in the planets and
DSO's.

jon isaacs
  #9  
Old September 18th 03, 08:11 AM
Rune Allnor
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

"John Honan" wrote in message ...
I have spent the last month in my garden (well, when there hasn't been cloud
cover) with a pair of old 7x50 binoculars and a starchart. Mainly finding my
way around the constellations, and roughly locating the Messier objects. I'm
in a light-polluted area so can't resolve much detail (I need to arrange a
trip to a dark site one of these days!)

At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope


As a user of a spotting scope (80 mm, 20-60x) myself, I would say that the
spotting scope is at best an awkward compromise for astronomy. As you point
out, the larger aperture (relative to binoculars) is more than cancelled by
the higher magnification.

The spotting scope doesn't really fit well with astronomy: The field of
view is too narrow to catch constellations, the aperture isn't large enough
to see faint objects like the Messiers, and the magnification isn't large
enough to see the planets awfully well. Which leaves the moon as just about
the one object one can study in some detail. And since spotting scopes are
mounted on regular tripods and not equatorial mounts, you don't get the
additional (much needed!) help in navigating the sky.

My own experience after having used the spotting scope for a year or so,
is that even though I expect only five clear dark nights per year (the low
number has to do with the midnight sun and the weather on the coast of the
Atlantic), I have started looking around to see if there is a chance of
finding enough cash to purchase an astro scope. Yes, I can see the rings of
Saturn with my spotting scope. Yes, I can see Jupiter, with its moons and
even some hints of cloud belts. I can just barely get a hint of some of the
intriguing Messiers, but that's about it. And it's very frustrating.

If you live in a place where the climate allows for astronomy on a regular,
frequent basis and have astronomy as your main interest, chances are that
a telescope built for astronomy would suit your needs significantly better
than a spotting scope.

If possible, you should test both types first hand.

Rune
  #10  
Old September 18th 03, 03:34 PM
Tony Flanders
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Posts: n/a
Default Spotting Scope or Binoculars?

"John Honan" wrote in message ...

At this point I want to get a new pair of binoculars or a spotting scope


First, as other people have already said, it makes no sense
to buy a spotting scope if astronomy is your primary purpose.
You would end up paying a lot for features that you do need,
and some of which are actually counter-productive, notably
the erecting prism, which introduces considerable optical
aberration. Moreover, the 45-degree viewing angle of many
spotting scopes is far inferior to the standard 90-degree
viewing angle of astro scopes when viewing subjects well
above the horizon. You could get a very nice astro scope
for the cost of that 80mm Nikon spotting scope.

Second, binoculars and telescopes both have their place
in astronomy, and to my mind, their uses barely intersect,
although there are some large binocular telescopes and
some small wide-field refractors that blur the lines.
Binoculars excel at wide-field low-power viewing. Even
truly giant binoculars like 40x150 models operate at
magnifications that are modest for a cheap department-
store telescope, let alone a serious astro scope.
At those low powers, the only way to increase the
amount of light getting to your eyes is to use both
of them. And yes, since you ask, I can see quite a
lot more in 15x70 binoculars than in my 70mm astro
scope at 15X. On the other hand, with the exception
of objects that don't fit in the field, I can almost
always see more in my 70mm scope at 50X than I can
in 15x70 binoculars, usually much more.

Personally, I cannot imagine going through life without
at least one pair of binoculars. Their uses are legion,
quite ignoring astronomy. Moreover, you can get a
perfectly acceptable pair of binoculars in the U.S.
for $50, a pretty-darn-good pair for $100, and an
excellent pair for $200. You can also spend big bucks
if you want, but then you are chasing that notorious
last 5% of capability that can eat up 90% of your money.
As for what specifications to choose, if you want to
use them standing up, I would avoid anything above
7X or 8X. For serious binocular astronomy, a reclining
chair is an essential (and very cheap!) accessory,
and in a reclining chair 10X is just fine and many
people can handle 15X. 7x35, 7x50, 8x40, 10x50, and
15x70 are all popular sizes, each with its advantages
and disadvantages. The lower sizes will be more
widely useful for terrestrial applications. Or you
could get two pairs of binoculars, one for terrestrial
and casual astronomy and one for serious astronomy,
and still not spend more than $250 U.S.

Anyway, if you keep the expense on the binoculars low,
then you can start to think seriously about the best
astro scope for your budget. And when all is said and
done, although almost all serious amateur astronomers
own and use binoculars, most of us spend 10 hours at
our scopes for every hour that we spend with binoculars.

By the way, you suggest that binoculars are "easier to hold"
than telescopes. Wrong thinking! You don't hold telescopes,
you mount them. Even 7X binoculars show much more when mounted
than when hand-held, and mounting is essential above 15X or so.
A telescope's mount is every bit as important as the optical
tube, and typically roughly equal in cost. Unless you want to
do serious astrophotography, in which case the mount is likely
to cost much more than the telescope.

- Tony Flanders
 




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