Why Tolerate this Newsgroup?

I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group. There are some very
knowledgeable members of this group and I have learned much from being a
member of this group. Year after year the problems in this newsgroup worsen.
That is just the nature of Usenet and it will only get worse with time.
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and real
email addresses? It seems that this solution would eliminate all of the
trolls and other annoyances and we could have astronomy discussions without
all of the flame wars. It seems that if a new home could be found, the group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Regards,

-mij

In news:eWebe.82300$A31.9856@fed1read03 "Mij Adyaw"
wrote:

It seems that if a new home could be found, the group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Why let them run you off?

Get a newsreader with an effective kill file or scoring mechanism and
learn to use it.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:19:38 -0700, Mij Adyaw wrote:

I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group.



My name is posted as is my email address and the same can be said for a
significant number of regular posters here. This place is not perfect, but
it is a comfortable to me. Nothing ties me or anyone else to this group.
We are all free to come and go. . .and few question out loud the validity
of the gathering. My conviction and dedication to its existence, and that
of many others, is reinforced everytime it is summoned on our computers.



--
Martin R. Howell
"Photographs From the Universe of Amateur Astronomy"
http://members.isp.com/universeofama...nomy%40isp.com

I like the real names and real e-mail address part, and have said so over
time. It SHOULD be a requirement, with NO exceptions. If you're not real
and directly accountable and traceable, you are banned.

But I DO like SAA where it is. I just wish more folks would exercise
common sense in dealing with the trolls and ego trippers.

Ignore them, or killfile them, but DON'T respond to them, because EVERY
time you do, YOU are encouraging them to do more of the same.

I've certainly been guilty of this myself.

But what I find interesting, is when you point out that someone is a troll
that should be avoided, there are ALWAYS folks who will defend them on
SOME pretext (Oh, he owns a telescope AND an observatory, so even though
he is a total jerk, and off topic, or on an anti American/anti
Democrat/anti Republican/anti anything you can think of rant, I still find
him intellectually stimulating, so even though he almost NEVER abides by
the SAA charter, I still think we should make an exception in his/her/it's
case). And as long as this goes on, there will never be any real control
exercised over these folks, and SAA will continue to be a garbage dump...

--
Jan Owen

To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.662
Longitude: -112.3272

"Mij Adyaw" wrote in message
news:eWebe.82300$A31.9856@fed1read03...
I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this
newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group. There are some very
knowledgeable members of this group and I have learned much from being a
member of this group. Year after year the problems in this newsgroup
worsen.
That is just the nature of Usenet and it will only get worse with time.
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or
some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and
real
email addresses? It seems that this solution would eliminate all of the
trolls and other annoyances and we could have astronomy discussions
without
all of the flame wars. It seems that if a new home could be found, the
group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Regards,

-mij

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the detailed reply. If the folks in this newsgroup could just
stick to the topic of amateur astronomy, this newsgroup would be a great
place. I advocate posting using a real email address, however I personally
would never use a real email address because of all of the software bots
that crawl Usenet collecting email addressed to sell to spammers. Many years
ago, I posted to this newsgroup using a real email address and within
several months my email address was ruined with spam. I was receiving over
100 spam emails per day. I guess that it would be possible for me to use the
yahoo email "ddress guard" feature in order to generate special temporary
email addresses that I can delete at anytime if they become spam buckets. I
am aware of the trick of adding extra characters to the end of my email
address, however some of the software bots that crawl usenet sell different
variants of your email address and therefore your email address is not
really safe.

You are correct that folks seem to defend the trolls and that is exactly
what perpetuates the problem. For example, there always been an ongoing
flame war between the liberals and the conservatives that gets rekindled
several times a month. The problem is that regular contributing members of
this group get involved in these off-topic discussions and sometimes
perpetuate them until they become flame-wars. In a moderated newsgroup,
off-topic posts will cause them to get banned from the newsgroup by a
moderator and therefore they will not be tempted to reply and perpetuate
off-topic posts. Why do some folks feel that it is necessary to challenge
the political alliance of other members of this group? If everyone could
just stick to the topic of amateur astronomy, this would be an excellent
forum

Regards,

-mij


"Jan Owen" wrote in message
news:R7fbe.31274$lv1.16178@fed1read06...
I like the real names and real e-mail address part, and have said so over
time. It SHOULD be a requirement, with NO exceptions. If you're not real
and directly accountable and traceable, you are banned.

But I DO like SAA where it is. I just wish more folks would exercise
common sense in dealing with the trolls and ego trippers.

Ignore them, or killfile them, but DON'T respond to them, because EVERY
time you do, YOU are encouraging them to do more of the same.

I've certainly been guilty of this myself.

But what I find interesting, is when you point out that someone is a troll
that should be avoided, there are ALWAYS folks who will defend them on
SOME pretext (Oh, he owns a telescope AND an observatory, so even though
he is a total jerk, and off topic, or on an anti American/anti
Democrat/anti Republican/anti anything you can think of rant, I still find
him intellectually stimulating, so even though he almost NEVER abides by
the SAA charter, I still think we should make an exception in his/her/it's
case). And as long as this goes on, there will never be any real control
exercised over these folks, and SAA will continue to be a garbage dump...

--
Jan Owen

To reach me directly, remove the Z, if one appears in my e-mail address...
Latitude: 33.662
Longitude: -112.3272

"Mij Adyaw" wrote in message
news:eWebe.82300$A31.9856@fed1read03...
I would like to respectfully ask why so many of you tolerate this
newsgroup.
It seems to be full of trolls and other types of folks that get their
jollies by antagonizing other members of the group. There are some very
knowledgeable members of this group and I have learned much from being a
member of this group. Year after year the problems in this newsgroup
worsen.
That is just the nature of Usenet and it will only get worse with time.
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart or
some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names and
real
email addresses? It seems that this solution would eliminate all of the
trolls and other annoyances and we could have astronomy discussions
without
all of the flame wars. It seems that if a new home could be found, the
group
could be vacated rather quickly.

Regards,

-mij

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:08:38 -0700, "Mij Adyaw"
wrote:

I advocate posting using a real email address, however I personally
would never use a real email address because of all of the software bots
that crawl Usenet collecting email addressed to sell to spammers. Many years
ago, I posted to this newsgroup using a real email address and within
several months my email address was ruined with spam. I was receiving over
100 spam emails per day...

I've been posting here since 1997 or so, and every post has contained my
real email address (the same one all that time). I have a few other
addresses I use for things that I think might attract spam. I don't see
any more garbage coming to my main address than to the others. Spam
filters are good enough to strip away the bulk of the junk and leave a
manageable (albeit still somewhat annoying) amount.

These days, there are so many ways of harvesting addresses that it
hardly seems worthwhile to worry about it. If you actually use your
address, it is only a matter of time before it is harvested (perhaps
from something as simple as a clueless friend who sends out some stupid
email joke to everyone in his address book- including you- and doesn't
know what the BCC field is for).

I have many Internet friends I have met through this group. Personally,
I don't choose to make it difficult for future ones by using a fake or
obfuscated address.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Chris,

I do not expose my email address because I do not want to use a spam filter.
No matter how good the spam filter, there are times that an important
message will wind up in your bulk or spam email directory and therefore it
is necessary to constantly monitor the spam directory for messages that
should not have been flagged as spam. I have chastised my friends regarding
sending my email address in the "clear" and have taught them to use the BCC
field for all emails that are sent to a list. It is a jungle out there and
it is important to protect your email address.

Best Regards,

-mij



"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 17:08:38 -0700, "Mij Adyaw"
wrote:

I advocate posting using a real email address, however I personally
would never use a real email address because of all of the software bots
that crawl Usenet collecting email addressed to sell to spammers. Many
years
ago, I posted to this newsgroup using a real email address and within
several months my email address was ruined with spam. I was receiving over
100 spam emails per day...

I've been posting here since 1997 or so, and every post has contained my
real email address (the same one all that time). I have a few other
addresses I use for things that I think might attract spam. I don't see
any more garbage coming to my main address than to the others. Spam
filters are good enough to strip away the bulk of the junk and leave a
manageable (albeit still somewhat annoying) amount.

These days, there are so many ways of harvesting addresses that it
hardly seems worthwhile to worry about it. If you actually use your
address, it is only a matter of time before it is harvested (perhaps
from something as simple as a clueless friend who sends out some stupid
email joke to everyone in his address book- including you- and doesn't
know what the BCC field is for).

I have many Internet friends I have met through this group. Personally,
I don't choose to make it difficult for future ones by using a fake or
obfuscated address.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Using this webby box, it's impossible for me to disguise my email addy.
It sits at the top of everything I post in several groups I frequent.
However, I don't find myself inundated with spam. I get maybe 20 a
day... mostly unintelligible stuff from some asian source, a few
"financial" things, a few porno ads, and the occasional Nigerian scam.
I delete 'em all without opening 'em, and they're gone.
I don't have killfiles either. I just don't read stuff I don't
want to read.
Good people in here.
Marty

X-No-archive: yes
Mij Adyaw wrote:
It is a jungle out there and it is important to protect your email
address.
Mij Adyaw also wrote:
Have you ever considered moving this forum (essentially all of the
good
folks in this forum) to another location such as groups on Astromart
or some
other location where folks will have to post using their real names
and real
email addresses?

I agree wholeheartedly with your feelings in principle except for the
following regarding the real-id solution to the universal net problem
of trolls and persons with mental health problems. In today's
hyper-information society, it is simply too easy for prospective and/or
current employers to drop a real name into a search engine and start
scanning the net life of individuals going back for a decade. The
Astromart solution does not guard against that economic misuse of the
internet. With its other site policies, Astromart does address the
other major net problem - unscrupulous hyper-marketeers who use real
name email addresses to bombard personal-use email accounts.

The use of anonymous email addresses is a necessary part of maintaining
some reasonable level of personal privacy in the modern information
society. It does come with costs - evident in this newsgroup. I would
prefer to post with a real identity, I just don't feel that it is
realistic in the current U.S. labor market.

"Mij Adyaw" wrote in message
news:Odgbe.83359$A31.39486@fed1read03...
Chris,

I do not expose my email address because I do not want to use a spam
filter. No matter how good the spam filter, there are times that an
important message will wind up in your bulk or spam email directory and
therefore it is necessary to constantly monitor the spam directory for
messages that should not have been flagged as spam. I have chastised my
friends regarding sending my email address in the "clear" and have taught
them to use the BCC field for all emails that are sent to a list. It is a
jungle out there and it is important to protect your email address.

Best Regards,

-mij



I'd bet a years salary your name is NOT Mij Adyaw. I have been in and out of
here for quite some time
and I have never seen that name until now. Truth be told, YOU are some kind
of freaked out troll or lurker.