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United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets,EVERYTHING.



 
 
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  #61  
Old September 14th 08, 03:19 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
phil hays
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

Fred J. McCall wrote:

phil hays wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: In point of fact, it cost more to shut the supercollider project down
: than it would have cost to finish it. :
:This make me think you are yet another Republican. :

This makes me think you're just another political shill.


Republicans never apologize, and never admit they are wrong, they just
reply with more smears.

Sad case.


:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superco...Super_Collider :
:Says that "the cost projection exceeded 12 billion" and at the time of
:shutdown "nearly two billion dollars had already been spent on the
:massive facility".
:

They're wrong.


Because Fred J. McCall says so. No other documentation. No reason. No
discussion. Just a flat assertion.

Boooooooring.

Wrong as well. Here is a hint:

http://just****inggoogleit.com/searc...er+collider%22



:
:No way did it take 10 billion dollars to fill in a hole that too less
:than 2 billion dollars to dig.
:
:Tell the truth, don't be Republican. :

Learn something about how this stuff works instead of just spouting
political bull****. Don't be just another mindless political shill.


Too funny. Way too funny.

Get a hint. Get a clue. Get a life. Then get back to us.


--
Clues for sale or rent,
hints for just fifty cents.
No trolls, no spam, no twits.
Only fools smoke them cigarettes.
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  #62  
Old September 14th 08, 03:50 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets, EVERYTHING.

phil hays wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: phil hays wrote:
:
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: :
: : In point of fact, it cost more to shut the supercollider project down
: : than it would have cost to finish it. :
: :This make me think you are yet another Republican. :
:
: This makes me think you're just another political shill.
:
:Republicans never apologize, and never admit they are wrong, they just
:reply with more smears.
:

I note you haven't apologized, haven't admitted you are wrong, and are
just replying with more smears.

:
:Sad case.
:

Indeed.

:
: :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superco...Super_Collider :
: :Says that "the cost projection exceeded 12 billion" and at the time of
: :shutdown "nearly two billion dollars had already been spent on the
: :massive facility".
: :
:
: They're wrong.
:
:Because Fred J. McCall says so. No other documentation. No reason. No
:discussion. Just a flat assertion.
:
:Boooooooring.
:
:Wrong as well. Here is a hint:
:

Try living a few miles from the ****ing thing at the time period in
question.

Gods, you're a dumb ****!

:
:
: :
: :No way did it take 10 billion dollars to fill in a hole that too less
: :than 2 billion dollars to dig.
: :
: :Tell the truth, don't be Republican. :
:
: Learn something about how this stuff works instead of just spouting
: political bull****. Don't be just another mindless political shill.
:
:Too funny. Way too funny.
:

Poor boy. Can't even tell when he's being mocked.

:
:Get a hint. Get a clue. Get a life. Then get back to us.
:

Take that turd out of your pocket...

--
"You couldn't get a clue during the clue mating season in a field
full of horny clues if you smeared your body with clue musk and
did the clue mating dance."
-- Edward Flaherty
  #63  
Old September 14th 08, 04:39 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 13, 1:02 pm, Ian Parker wrote:
On 13 Sep, 15:22, Fred J. McCall wrote:



Damon Hill wrote:


:Ian Parker wrote in

ups.com:
:


Ian is an idiot, which he is about to prove once again. Why waste
time rebutting his lunacy?


:
: I think the US is falling behind both Europe and Asia. I
: think there are a number of reasons.
:
: 1) The failure to build a supercollider.
:
:Too busy building advanced semiconductor fabs--those are
:hugely expensive.
:


Well, no. Semiconductor fabs are privately funded. The supercollider
was publicly funded. Not even money out of the same pocket.


In point of fact, it cost more to shut the supercollider project down
than it would have cost to finish it. It got shut down by a
Democratic Congress that was ****ed off that Texas dared to replace a
Democratic Senator (Bob Krueger, appointed by Ann Richards to replace
Lloyd Bentsen) with a Republican (Kay Bailey Hutchison) and wanted to
exact a revenge against the State of Texas.


Well if that is the case it is indeed a case in point. If Science in
itself were valued such a thing would not occur. In any case - What
about all the money earmarked for a lunar base and a maned trip to
Mars. What about Ares which does not seem to work. These are all
public projects.

Most countries have had a mixed economy as regards Science. Government
pays for blue skies stuff, private enterprise pays for the next 5
years. As far as CERN is concerned, not only was there the main
project there is also the Grid. Now I know you are going to say that
private enterprise should create Grids. I think they will.

Could I also point out that the country with the fastest broadband
access is S Korea. The US is falling down the broadband league. Grids
will ultimately mean less commuting and the possibility of
videoconferencing at home. If you don't dig the Higgs boson, you can
at least videoconference at home.

: 2) Creationalism, the view that the World is no older than
: the Ice Age.
:
:Quite a lot of people here, most in fact, don't believe in
:that. Still, the fundamentalist conservatives are inhibiting
rogress.
:


How?


In quite a few ways. The public perception of Science is important.
Students need to be encouraged to go into Science. If they see a
government that sems to be wavering in its enthusiasm students will
take the cue.

The Government does in fact dispose of a vast amount of money in
publicly funded research, both though universities and through "big
science". You may not like this and you may well be right. I would
have thought it obvious that the head of NASA (and his boss) should
not believe that you cannot see beyong the Ice Age (3KPa).

The Republican contender has chosed such a person to replace him
should his ticker fail. McCain seems to

1) Show a complete contempt for Science and scientific truth. No
respectable scientist should EVER consider voting for him.

2) The American people seem to have taken 3KPa to their heart. Why?

: 3) Governmenr interference with things like Stem Cell
: research.
:
:Got more specific examples; this seems trivial by itself.
:


It's less than trivial. There's been no "government interference".
There's merely been a lack of government interference in the opposite
direction; a failure to subsidize it, rather than interference to
prevent it.


This is not entirely true. Science operates in a mixed economy. One
normally expects universities (publicly funded) to do this sort of
research. If you don't have university departments doing it students
will go elsewhere.

Does the abscence of stem cell research affect the rest of biology?
Yes and no? If a whole field is not being taught students will go
elsewhere. You could I suppose do it in industry, but it is better for
industry to simply go to Europe or Asia. Furthermore if the feeling
goes round that establishment X is excellant for biology, that will be
where the best biological researchers will congregate.

: 4) The US is now a lot less welcoming to foreigners than it
: was in the time of Kennedy.
:
:You don't live here, do you? Spanish has become the 2nd
:national language by default. We're not as bilingual as
:Canada but our economic wealth attracts much immigration.
:


And 'foreigners' who actually have something to offer don't find it
difficult at all to come here.


I am not al all sure. Whether you are good or not the process is
bureaucratic. If you get a firm offer from Europe or Asia that is
where you will go.

As I said ultimately demography (300 million as against 1.3 billion
Chinese) will tell against the US) will tell and (eventually) the US
is bound to decline. However the decline in the Bush years has been
astonishing in its speed.

- Ian Parker


Science is seldom if ever privately funded. Directly or indirectly
the general public gets to pay for nearly everything if not
considerably more than you'd think possible. We're at $54 trillion in
federal debt and counting. How much added debt can we afford to pass
along to future generations?

Our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) is directly responsible for at
least 10% of that federal debt, and it's only getting worse by the
minute.

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG
  #64  
Old September 14th 08, 11:28 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
Ian Parker
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,554
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On 13 Sep, 21:25, kT wrote:
phil hays wrote:
Fred J. McCall wrote:


In point of fact, it cost more to shut the supercollider project down
than it would have cost to finish it.


This make me think you are yet another Republican.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superco...Super_Collider


Says that "the cost projection exceeded 12 billion" and at the time of
shutdown "nearly two billion dollars had already been spent on the
massive facility".


No way did it take 10 billion dollars to fill in a hole that too less
than 2 billion dollars to dig.


Tell the truth, don't be Republican.


Lying is part of the educational curricula in America today.

I'm pretty sure they didn't tear anything down and fill in the hole.

These kinds of monstrosities are hard to sell after they fail, for
instance, Biosphere II, etc. People are still stupid enough, though.

The Europeans can have their high energy accelerators.

http://xdb.lbl.gov/Section2/Sec_2-2.html

http://www.src.wisc.edu/about/erowe.htm

You'll just have to trust me that this is where the real competition is.

Clearly the trend is towards lower energy, for example, the real world :

http://www.wifel.wisc.edu/

I'll see you there ... in the future!- Hide quoted text -

This is a very good example of how spin off can occur. Synchrotron
radiation is the only bright source of Vacuum Ultraviolet and soft X
rays. This is of great inportance in bilogy and also in the fabricaion
of integrated circuits. Originally they were devised for particle
physics.


- Ian Parker
  #65  
Old September 14th 08, 02:29 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
phil hays
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

Fred J. McCall wrote:

phil hays wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: phil hays wrote: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: :
: : In point of fact, it cost more to shut the supercollider project
down : : than it would have cost to finish it. : : :This make me
think you are yet another Republican. : :
: This makes me think you're just another political shill. :
:Republicans never apologize, and never admit they are wrong, they just
:reply with more smears.
:

I note you haven't apologized, haven't admitted you are wrong, and are
just replying with more smears.


You did notice I replied with a reference, or did you?

If we want a rational discussion, we need to start with facts. What did
the newspapers print on the story in 1992? What does the Congressional
Record have on the issue? But rational discussion is a liberal habit, now
isn't it?

Or if one person in the discussion is a Republican, he asserts the
Absolute Truth. Because he knows it. Anyone that disagrees is a dumb
****. End of discussion. Nothing left to do. Need another hint?


--
Clues for sale or rent,
hints for just fifty cents.
No trolls, no spam, no twits.
Only fools smoke them cigarettes.
  #66  
Old September 14th 08, 04:25 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 14, 6:29 am, phil hays wrote:
Fred J. McCall wrote:
phil hays wrote:


:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: phil hays wrote: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: :
: : In point of fact, it cost more to shut the supercollider project
down : : than it would have cost to finish it. : : :This make me
think you are yet another Republican. : :
: This makes me think you're just another political shill. :
:Republicans never apologize, and never admit they are wrong, they just
:reply with more smears.
:


I note you haven't apologized, haven't admitted you are wrong, and are
just replying with more smears.


You did notice I replied with a reference, or did you?

If we want a rational discussion, we need to start with facts. What did
the newspapers print on the story in 1992? What does the Congressional
Record have on the issue? But rational discussion is a liberal habit, now
isn't it?

Or if one person in the discussion is a Republican, he asserts the
Absolute Truth. Because he knows it. Anyone that disagrees is a dumb
****. End of discussion. Nothing left to do. Need another hint?

--
Clues for sale or rent,
hints for just fifty cents.
No trolls, no spam, no twits.
Only fools smoke them cigarettes.


Can we assume that you're another pretend-Atheist and conditional laws
of physics kind of guy?

~ BG
  #67  
Old September 14th 08, 04:32 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
OM[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,849
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:29:42 GMT, phil hays
wrote:

If we want a rational discussion, we need to start with facts.


....If you want a rational discussion, you won't find one arguing with
Fred McCall. Again, just killfile him and be done with him. The troll
isn't worth yours or anyone else's time.

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[
  #68  
Old September 14th 08, 04:46 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science,Rockets, EVERYTHING.

On Sep 14, 8:32 am, OM wrote:
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:29:42 GMT, phil hays
wrote:

If we want a rational discussion, we need to start with facts.


...If you want a rational discussion, you won't find one arguing with
Fred McCall. Again, just killfile him and be done with him. The troll
isn't worth yours or anyone else's time.

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog -http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[


Spoken like a true Zionist/Nazi. (killfile and/or nuke the whole damn
world, if that's what it takes)

btw, how is your Republican Mafia and of their New World Order coming
along? How will it ever manage to function without your vast
expertise?

~ Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth BG
  #69  
Old September 14th 08, 05:43 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets, EVERYTHING.

phil hays wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: phil hays wrote:
:
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: :
: : phil hays wrote: :
: : :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: : :
: : : In point of fact, it cost more to shut the supercollider project
: down : : than it would have cost to finish it. : : :This make me
: think you are yet another Republican. : :
: : This makes me think you're just another political shill. :
: :Republicans never apologize, and never admit they are wrong, they just
: :reply with more smears.
: :
:
: I note you haven't apologized, haven't admitted you are wrong, and are
: just replying with more smears.
:
:You did notice I replied with a reference, or did you?
:
:If we want a rational discussion, we need to start with facts. What did
:the newspapers print on the story in 1992? What does the Congressional
:Record have on the issue? But rational discussion is a liberal habit, now
:isn't it?
:

You think the Congressional Record is a reference? The Congressional
Record is almost pure fiction, by design.

"Rational discussion is a liberal habit"? On what planet?

:Or if one person in the discussion is a Republican, he asserts the
:Absolute Truth. Because he knows it. Anyone that disagrees is a dumb
:****. End of discussion. Nothing left to do. Need another hint?

No. You've shown you ARE a political shill.

Not interested in playing, thanks.

Need another hint?

--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
  #70  
Old September 14th 08, 05:44 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.environment
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default United States Falling Behind EVERYONE In Physics, Science, Rockets, EVERYTHING.

OM wrote:

:On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 13:29:42 GMT, phil hays
:wrote:
:
:If we want a rational discussion, we need to start with facts.
:
:...If you want a rational discussion, you won't find one arguing with
:Fred McCall. Again, just killfile him and be done with him. The troll
:isn't worth yours or anyone else's time.
:

Do you ever do ANYTHING other spew poisonous lies?

--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain
 




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