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  #21  
Old September 23rd 11, 04:56 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Andre Lieven[_3_]
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Posts: 388
Default Search for snoopy

On Sep 23, 12:36*am, Pat Flannery wrote:
On 9/22/2011 1:22 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:

retrieval could be done by a unmanned robotic craft with a docking
probe left over from a apollo display, assumng snoopy isnt tumbling..


-That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed
without evidence.-


It will be tumbling, if for no other reason that the reflectivity
of different parts is different because of the black paint on it,
causing the sunlight to generate a tiny thrust on it like a solar sail,
and start it spinning with time.


That's the most logical view on that, yes.

the vehicles primary mission could be somewhere else. also a good
first test to redirect a asteroid .......


Yes, because asteroids come factory equipped with docking ports...


No, we use an hydrogen bomb, that's the only fun way to do it.


I think that there's a treaty or two on that topic... :-)

involves tracking , manuvering docking and redirecting.


snoopy might first get relocated to a high earth orbit.......


In which case, the space tug that does this AIN'T going anywhere
else...


its easy top say impossible but sometimes creative solutions can be
found.


In your case, 'creative' equals 'factless and clueless'.


...and gawdawful expensive for what you would get in return.
You want to do a space tug demo mission, that Vanguard 1 is perfect for
it; it would look great in a case in the Smithsonian, and by studying
what must be the large number of micrometeor impacts on its exterior,
you could not only figure how common they are very accurately, but size
distribution of them as well as their composition from their splash on
impact.


Indeed. I don't deny that getting back the only surviving flown LM
would be wicked kewl. I just deny that, at this point, that it would
be
either cheap or easy.

Andre
  #22  
Old September 23rd 11, 05:36 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Search for snoopy

On 9/22/2011 1:22 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:
retrieval could be done by a unmanned robotic craft with a docking
probe left over from a apollo display, assumng snoopy isnt tumbling..


-That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed
without evidence.-


It will be tumbling, if for no other reason that the reflectivity
of different parts is different because of the black paint on it,
causing the sunlight to generate a tiny thrust on it like a solar sail,
and start it spinning with time.

the vehicles primary mission could be somewhere else. also a good
first test to redirect a asteroid .......


Yes, because asteroids come factory equipped with docking ports...



No, we use an hydrogen bomb, that's the only fun way to do it.


involves tracking , manuvering docking and redirecting.

snoopy might first get relocated to a high earth orbit.......


In which case, the space tug that does this AIN'T going anywhere
else...

its easy top say impossible but sometimes creative solutions can be
found.


In your case, 'creative' equals 'factless and clueless'.


....and gawdawful expensive for what you would get in return.
You want to do a space tug demo mission, that Vanguard 1 is perfect for
it; it would look great in a case in the Smithsonian, and by studying
what must be the large number of micrometeor impacts on its exterior,
you could not only figure how common they are very accurately, but size
distribution of them as well as their composition from their splash on
impact.

Pat
  #23  
Old September 23rd 11, 06:08 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Andre Lieven[_3_]
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Posts: 388
Default Search for snoopy

On Vanguard One, I found this site:

http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52936/index20.htm

It's got an ongoing odometer for Vanguard One,
which, as I type this, has done some
11,469,717,200 KM in space...

Andre
  #24  
Old September 23rd 11, 09:06 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Search for snoopy

On 9/22/2011 7:56 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:
On Sep 23, 12:36 am, Pat wrote:
On 9/22/2011 1:22 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:

retrieval could be done by a unmanned robotic craft with a docking
probe left over from a apollo display, assumng snoopy isnt tumbling..


-That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed
without evidence.-


It will be tumbling, if for no other reason that the reflectivity
of different parts is different because of the black paint on it,
causing the sunlight to generate a tiny thrust on it like a solar sail,
and start it spinning with time.


That's the most logical view on that, yes.

the vehicles primary mission could be somewhere else. also a good
first test to redirect a asteroid .......


Yes, because asteroids come factory equipped with docking ports...


No, we use an hydrogen bomb, that's the only fun way to do it.


I think that there's a treaty or two on that topic... :-)

involves tracking , manuvering docking and redirecting.


snoopy might first get relocated to a high earth orbit.......


In which case, the space tug that does this AIN'T going anywhere
else...


its easy top say impossible but sometimes creative solutions can be
found.


In your case, 'creative' equals 'factless and clueless'.


...and gawdawful expensive for what you would get in return.
You want to do a space tug demo mission, that Vanguard 1 is perfect for
it; it would look great in a case in the Smithsonian, and by studying
what must be the large number of micrometeor impacts on its exterior,
you could not only figure how common they are very accurately, but size
distribution of them as well as their composition from their splash on
impact.


Indeed. I don't deny that getting back the only surviving flown LM
would be wicked kewl. I just deny that, at this point, that it would
be
either cheap or easy.

Can you imagine what it would be like for a returning NASA astronaut
from the ISS to have Vanguard II sitting in his lap, just like the Hawk
model he had of it when he was a kid?:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1966-Hawk-Mo...-/380361685341
Had three of those as a kid, broke the antennas off on every damn one of
them.

Pat


  #25  
Old September 23rd 11, 09:26 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default Search for snoopy

On 9/22/2011 9:08 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:
On Vanguard One, I found this site:

http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52936/index20.htm

It's got an ongoing odometer for Vanguard One,
which, as I type this, has done some
11,469,717,200 KM in space...


I notice the orbital lifetime has dropped a bit from what it was in the
books I had as a kid, where it was supposed to be 12,000 to 20,000 years.
Has anyone actually figured out what the orbital lifetime of a satellite
in GEO is before air drag brings it down?
Does it come down first, or the Sun turn into a red giant and eat the
Earth first? :-)

Pat
  #26  
Old September 23rd 11, 10:47 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Anthony Frost
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default Search for snoopy

In message tatelephone
Pat Flannery wrote:

On 9/22/2011 9:08 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:
On Vanguard One, I found this site:

http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52936/index20.htm

It's got an ongoing odometer for Vanguard One,
which, as I type this, has done some
11,469,717,200 KM in space...


I notice the orbital lifetime has dropped a bit from what it was in the
books I had as a kid, where it was supposed to be 12,000 to 20,000 years.
Has anyone actually figured out what the orbital lifetime of a satellite
in GEO is before air drag brings it down?


Tidal and gravitational effects from the lumps and bumps on the Earth
dominate at that altitude. Anything below geostationary slowly gets
energy sucked out and spirals down, anything above gets energy pumped in
and will drift further out which is one of the reasons the graveyard
orbit for old satellites is higher than geostationary.

It's the same effect that is making the Moon get further away and will
drastically lower property prices along the Mrtian equator when Phobos
eventually drops in.

Anthony

  #27  
Old September 23rd 11, 12:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default Search for snoopy

On Sep 23, 5:47*am, Anthony Frost wrote:
In message tatelephone
* * * * * Pat Flannery wrote:

* On 9/22/2011 9:08 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:
* On Vanguard One, I found this site:
*
* http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52936/index20.htm
*
* It's got an ongoing odometer for Vanguard One,
* which, as I type this, has done some
* 11,469,717,200 KM in space...
*
* I notice the orbital lifetime has dropped a bit from what it was in the
* books I had as a kid, where it was supposed to be 12,000 to 20,000 years.
* Has anyone actually figured out what the orbital lifetime of a satellite
* in GEO is before air drag brings it down?

Tidal and gravitational effects from the lumps and bumps on the Earth
dominate at that altitude. Anything below geostationary slowly gets
energy sucked out and spirals down, anything above gets energy pumped in
and will drift further out which is one of the reasons the graveyard
orbit for old satellites is higher than geostationary.

It's the same effect that is making the Moon get further away and will
drastically lower property prices along the Mrtian equator when Phobos
eventually drops in.

* * * * *Anthony


so if the ISS at end of operational life were moved a bit over
geostationary it would slowly drift even higher over time?

that would allow it to be a excellent in orbit museum some day
  #28  
Old September 27th 11, 02:38 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Bob Haller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,197
Default Search for snoopy

On Sep 23, 10:55*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Sep 23, 5:47*am, Anthony Frost wrote:
In message tatelephone
* * * * * Pat Flannery wrote:


* On 9/22/2011 9:08 PM, Andre Lieven wrote:
* On Vanguard One, I found this site:
*
* http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52936/index20.htm
*
* It's got an ongoing odometer for Vanguard One,
* which, as I type this, has done some
* 11,469,717,200 KM in space...
*
* I notice the orbital lifetime has dropped a bit from what it was in the
* books I had as a kid, where it was supposed to be 12,000 to 20,000 years.
* Has anyone actually figured out what the orbital lifetime of a satellite
* in GEO is before air drag brings it down?


Tidal and gravitational effects from the lumps and bumps on the Earth
dominate at that altitude. Anything below geostationary slowly gets
energy sucked out and spirals down, anything above gets energy pumped in
and will drift further out which is one of the reasons the graveyard
orbit for old satellites is higher than geostationary.


It's the same effect that is making the Moon get further away and will
drastically lower property prices along the Mrtian equator when Phobos
eventually drops in.


so if the ISS at end of operational life were moved a bit over
geostationary it would slowly drift even higher over time?


that would allow it to be a excellent in orbit museum some day


It would be easier to get to if we just teleported it to Syracuse. *Of
course, that plan has the same problem as yours; no capability to do
that.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
*truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


put a ion engine on iss and send it slowly to above geo sync.....

no doubt fred believes indenpendence hall should of been leveled for a
new skyscraper?

some things should remain for historic purposes.......

heck why werent the shuttles scraped to make a few bucks?
  #29  
Old September 28th 11, 12:54 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default Search for snoopy

some things should remain for historic purposes.......

But ISS isn't one of those things, given that your plan would probably
cost more than building it in the first place.



the first multinational long term operational space station, and
likeky the last is not historic?
 




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