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Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?



 
 
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  #81  
Old October 14th 17, 07:19 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Posts: 1,001
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Saturday, 14 October 2017 01:02:56 UTC+2, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:

Perhaps he's really talking about forcing all the *people* out of
cities, too. That's as likely to happen.


Cities seem to be more popular than rural living right around the globe.
Perhaps AI and robotics will allow rural living for the mass unemployed which will inevitably follow.

Many car journeys are very short as the human race becomes ever more lazy.
Short journeys in stop-start traffic are the worst for pollution since the car never really warms up.
Alternative, short range transport for the masses is not nearly as attractive as the whim-ready private car.

In comparison, electric bicycles/scooters/mopeds are ridiculously expensive. They offer little protection from the weather and have very poor load carrying capacity.
Adding a fairing, roof or bubble enclosure makes them bulky, unwieldy and very unstable in windy conditions.
Gyroscopic stability is possible though the Segway hasn't remotely taken off for mass transport.

"Micro" electric cars might offer some advantages but are still vehicle sized. So they are still a waste of space on grid-locked city roads and still need parking places.

Employment and access to shops is the usual reason for city living.
If the work is taken away then the city becomes attractive for crime.
Largely thanks to its high concentration of potential victims.

The human race has tried most forms of village, town and city living without ever achieving a perfect solution.
The larger they grow the more [the desperate] need for transport.

Traffic noise makes life hell for those living near artery roads and for walkers and cyclists.
A network of well separated cycle paths is arguably the best response to usual, very short car journeys to the local takeaway.

If home delivery gets any easier [worse] then lifelong isolation, ill-health, obesity and sloth will become the global norm.
Perhaps Soylent Green really is people, in the end?
At least it would cure global overpopulation.
AGW cured... [eventually.]
  #82  
Old October 14th 17, 03:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

"Micro" electric cars might offer some advantages but are still vehicle sized. So they are still a waste of space on grid-locked city roads and still need parking places.


I expect that within a few decades at the most, the only vehicles
allowed inside the denser parts of cities (and indeed, maybe
everywhere else as well) will be fully automated. There is no gridlock
with such a system. With electrics there is little noise. With shared
personal vehicles, there is little need for conventional parking.
  #83  
Old October 14th 17, 08:23 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
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Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

"Chris.B" wrote in
:

On Saturday, 14 October 2017 01:02:56 UTC+2, Gutless Umbrella
Carrying Sissy wrote:

Perhaps he's really talking about forcing all the *people* out
of cities, too. That's as likely to happen.


Cities seem to be more popular than rural living right around
the globe.


To varying degrees.

Perhaps AI and robotics will allow rural living


AI and robotics will not provide social contact, nor will it provide
convenient shopping.

for
the mass unemployed which will inevitably follow.


Evidence suggests you are as full of **** as usual.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #84  
Old October 14th 17, 08:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
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Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Chris L Peterson wrote in
news
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

"Micro" electric cars might offer some advantages but are still
vehicle sized. So they are still a waste of space on grid-locked
city roads and still need parking places.


I expect that within a few decades at the most, the only
vehicles allowed inside the denser parts of cities (and indeed,
maybe everywhere else as well) will be fully automated. There is
no gridlock with such a system.


You're smoking the Kool-Aid again.

When you have 1,000,000 cars in a system designed for 500,000 (or, in
the case of LA, 20,000,000 cars in a system designed for 500,000),
there is *always* gridlock. Less, perhaps, with a system that has no
ego drive narcissism and road rage, but once you exceed the capacity
of the system, there will certianly be gridlock. (And road rage, too,
evne if it is transferred to one's own vechidle. And then you have
the additional gridlock of having damaged cars blocking traffic.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #85  
Old October 14th 17, 11:27 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:26:25 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
wrote:

Chris L Peterson wrote in
news
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

"Micro" electric cars might offer some advantages but are still
vehicle sized. So they are still a waste of space on grid-locked
city roads and still need parking places.


I expect that within a few decades at the most, the only
vehicles allowed inside the denser parts of cities (and indeed,
maybe everywhere else as well) will be fully automated. There is
no gridlock with such a system.


You're smoking the Kool-Aid again.

When you have 1,000,000 cars in a system designed for 500,000 (or, in
the case of LA, 20,000,000 cars in a system designed for 500,000),
there is *always* gridlock.


No there isn't. You can put 10 or 20 times more vehicles on the roads,
and never experience gridlock. Cars can drive a few centimeters apart,
at higher speeds than current driving allows, with optimized routes,
considerably reduced wait times at intersections, and synchronized in
all directions.

Less, perhaps, with a system that has no
ego drive narcissism and road rage, but once you exceed the capacity
of the system, there will certianly be gridlock.


Why would you exceed the capacity of the system? Cities already have
the roads necessary to carry far more traffic than there's likely to
ever be demand for.

And then you have
the additional gridlock of having damaged cars blocking traffic.)


Rare. The accident rate will drop to near zero (which will be one
factor pushing the adoption of such technology), and the hardware is
very reliable (and in most cases won't fail catastrophically).
  #86  
Old October 15th 17, 01:24 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Chris L Peterson wrote in
:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:26:25 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
Sissy wrote:

Chris L Peterson wrote in
news
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

"Micro" electric cars might offer some advantages but are
still vehicle sized. So they are still a waste of space on
grid-locked city roads and still need parking places.

I expect that within a few decades at the most, the only
vehicles allowed inside the denser parts of cities (and
indeed, maybe everywhere else as well) will be fully
automated. There is no gridlock with such a system.


You're smoking the Kool-Aid again.

When you have 1,000,000 cars in a system designed for 500,000
(or, in the case of LA, 20,000,000 cars in a system designed for
500,000), there is *always* gridlock.


No there isn't.


Yes. There is. There is a maximum capacity for any road system.

You can put 10 or 20 times more vehicles on the
roads, and never experience gridlock.


It may well be higher for self driving cars for the same number of
square feet of pavement, but there's still a maximum capacity. And
when you exceed it, you will have gridlock. Unless, of course,
being a retard, you have redefined "gridlock" to mean something
that normal people will point and laugh at you for.

Cars can drive a few
centimeters apart, at higher speeds than current driving allows,
with optimized routes, considerably reduced wait times at
intersections, and synchronized in all directions.


Aside from your insane, retarded belief that self driving cars will
*never* *ever* suffer mechanical breakdowns, resulting in massive,
many car pileups because everything is moving 90 miles an hour at
centimeters distance, there is still a maximum capacity to the road
system. Places like Los Angeles are *so* far behind in keeping that
capacity up with demand that no amount of automation will keep
demand from exceeding capacity.

Hint: We have cars that are, literally, inches apart *now*, for
hours at a time, and waiting lines to enter the freeway (there are
trafic lights at the on ramps to control this - you don't get on
until someone gets off somewhere down the road). It is literally
impossible to put more cars on the road than that. Automation might
make them move faster - until there's a many car pileup with dozens
dead, anyway - but there are still more people than will physically
fit on the freeways at one time come rush hour (which lasts 3-4
hours in the morning, and usually longer in the afternoon).

Less, perhaps, with a system that has no
ego drive narcissism and road rage, but once you exceed the
capacity of the system, there will certianly be gridlock.


Why would you exceed the capacity of the system? Cities already
have the roads necessary to carry far more traffic than there's
likely to ever be demand for.


You're smoking more Kool-Aid again, I see. No, many cities have
nowhere near the capacity to handle the amount of traffic *now*.
Average speed on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles is less than 10 mph
for six hours a day, every weekday, and often on weekends, too.
Assuming there's no accidents. If there is one, it's more like the
405 parking lot.

And there is *no* *possible* *way* to *ever* build enough freeways
to handle the demand *now*. Not when freeways cost over a billion
dollars a mile, and take a decade or more worth of lawsuits to even
break ground.

You are, literally, hallucinating a world you'd like to live in, to
the point of being incapable of interacting the real world.

This is, of course, not unusual for you.

And then you have
the additional gridlock of having damaged cars blocking
traffic.)


Rare. The accident rate will drop to near zero (which will be
one factor pushing the adoption of such technology), and the
hardware is very reliable (and in most cases won't fail
catastrophically).

Keep smoking that Kool-Aid, son. Auto accidents are caused by
mechanical failures now, and always will be. Adding in computer
automation will not eliminate that.

Plus, of course, no one alive today will live long enough to see
completely automated cars. The technology isn't even *close*,
despite the marketing claims of companies looking for government
subsidies or investment dollars for a product they know thye have
no idea how to produce. (People like Elon Musk). There isn't a car
in existance today that can drive itself safetly on streets that
haven't been mapped down to a resolution measured in inches (or
less), much less in the raid, or snow, or anywhere near a
construction crew. Or even on a well mapped street with new traffic
signs. And there won't be, for a long time.

The current hallucination that we're close to truly automated cars
will last until the first death caused by something that would have
been trivial for even a bad human driver to avoid, like running
down a traffic cop directing traffic around an accident. Then the
companies making self driving cars will go out of business, and
rightly so.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #87  
Old October 15th 17, 08:04 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,001
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Saturday, 14 October 2017 16:20:26 UTC+2, Chris L Peterson wrote:

I expect that within a few decades at the most, the only vehicles
allowed inside the denser parts of cities (and indeed, maybe
everywhere else as well) will be fully automated. There is no gridlock
with such a system. With electrics there is little noise. With shared
personal vehicles, there is little need for conventional parking.


Breaking the connection between private vehicle ownership and pride in that ownership would certainly help. Sharing the available fleet of clean, comfortable, but completely anonymous transport, is the most likely way to gain real improvements in average road speeds.

Removing the pointless commuter cycle by distance working would also help. Bringing workers together in one place, for greater manufacturing efficiency, is a historical throwback to the dark, satanic mills. It cleared away the vast excess of agricultural workers with no more work to do when the 1st generation robots arrived.

  #88  
Old October 15th 17, 10:27 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,824
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
Chris L Peterson wrote in
:

On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:26:25 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying
Sissy wrote:

Chris L Peterson wrote in
news
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 23:19:09 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

"Micro" electric cars might offer some advantages but are
still vehicle sized. So they are still a waste of space on
grid-locked city roads and still need parking places.

I expect that within a few decades at the most, the only
vehicles allowed inside the denser parts of cities (and
indeed, maybe everywhere else as well) will be fully
automated. There is no gridlock with such a system.

You're smoking the Kool-Aid again.

When you have 1,000,000 cars in a system designed for 500,000
(or, in the case of LA, 20,000,000 cars in a system designed for
500,000), there is *always* gridlock.


No there isn't.


Yes. There is. There is a maximum capacity for any road system.

You can put 10 or 20 times more vehicles on the
roads, and never experience gridlock.


It may well be higher for self driving cars for the same number of
square feet of pavement, but there's still a maximum capacity. And
when you exceed it, you will have gridlock. Unless, of course,
being a retard, you have redefined "gridlock" to mean something
that normal people will point and laugh at you for.

Cars can drive a few
centimeters apart, at higher speeds than current driving allows,
with optimized routes, considerably reduced wait times at
intersections, and synchronized in all directions.


Aside from your insane, retarded belief that self driving cars will
*never* *ever* suffer mechanical breakdowns, resulting in massive,
many car pileups because everything is moving 90 miles an hour at
centimeters distance, there is still a maximum capacity to the road
system. Places like Los Angeles are *so* far behind in keeping that
capacity up with demand that no amount of automation will keep
demand from exceeding capacity.

Hint: We have cars that are, literally, inches apart *now*, for
hours at a time, and waiting lines to enter the freeway (there are
trafic lights at the on ramps to control this - you don't get on
until someone gets off somewhere down the road). It is literally
impossible to put more cars on the road than that. Automation might
make them move faster - until there's a many car pileup with dozens
dead, anyway - but there are still more people than will physically
fit on the freeways at one time come rush hour (which lasts 3-4
hours in the morning, and usually longer in the afternoon).

Less, perhaps, with a system that has no
ego drive narcissism and road rage, but once you exceed the
capacity of the system, there will certianly be gridlock.


Why would you exceed the capacity of the system? Cities already
have the roads necessary to carry far more traffic than there's
likely to ever be demand for.


You're smoking more Kool-Aid again, I see. No, many cities have
nowhere near the capacity to handle the amount of traffic *now*.
Average speed on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles is less than 10 mph
for six hours a day, every weekday, and often on weekends, too.
Assuming there's no accidents. If there is one, it's more like the
405 parking lot.

And there is *no* *possible* *way* to *ever* build enough freeways
to handle the demand *now*. Not when freeways cost over a billion
dollars a mile, and take a decade or more worth of lawsuits to even
break ground.

You are, literally, hallucinating a world you'd like to live in, to
the point of being incapable of interacting the real world.

This is, of course, not unusual for you.

And then you have
the additional gridlock of having damaged cars blocking
traffic.)


Rare. The accident rate will drop to near zero (which will be
one factor pushing the adoption of such technology), and the
hardware is very reliable (and in most cases won't fail
catastrophically).

Keep smoking that Kool-Aid, son. Auto accidents are caused by
mechanical failures now, and always will be. Adding in computer
automation will not eliminate that.

Most accidents are caused by human error.

Plus, of course, no one alive today will live long enough to see
completely automated cars. The technology isn't even *close*,
despite the marketing claims of companies looking for government
subsidies or investment dollars for a product they know thye have
no idea how to produce. (People like Elon Musk). There isn't a car
in existance today that can drive itself safetly on streets that
haven't been mapped down to a resolution measured in inches (or
less), much less in the raid, or snow, or anywhere near a
construction crew. Or even on a well mapped street with new traffic
signs. And there won't be, for a long time.


We already have this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...0-supplement-1


This current hallucination that we're close to truly automated cars
will last until the first death caused by something that would have
been trivial for even a bad human driver to avoid, like running
down a traffic cop directing traffic around an accident. Then the
companies making self driving cars will go out of business, and
rightly so.

That seems a contrived reason. Until self driving cars can avoid
pedestrians they won’t be allowed. In this case the policeman is just
another pedestrian.




  #89  
Old October 15th 17, 12:02 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Posts: 1,344
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:01:48 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
wrote:
The best thing for the cities would be to get automobiles out
altogether.


By some definitions of best, maybe. By others, likely far more
popular, "best" would involved tracking down all the extremist
whackjob enivronmentalists and rendering their bodies down into
hydrocarbon fuel.


Are you seriously proposing mass murder as the best solution? Some
70+ years ago, a guy named Hitler implemented such a "solution". He
ended up killing himself, and causing a cstastrophy over almost a
whole continent.
  #90  
Old October 15th 17, 12:35 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,551
Default Is Elon Musk ready for the straitjacket ?

On Sunday, October 15, 2017 at 12:02:10 PM UTC+1, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 16:01:48 -0700, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy
wrote:
The best thing for the cities would be to get automobiles out
altogether.


By some definitions of best, maybe. By others, likely far more
popular, "best" would involved tracking down all the extremist
whackjob enivronmentalists and rendering their bodies down into
hydrocarbon fuel.


Are you seriously proposing mass murder as the best solution? Some
70+ years ago, a guy named Hitler implemented such a "solution". He
ended up killing himself, and causing a cstastrophy over almost a
whole continent.


Now,now, Hitler was implementing empirical policy and not a solution -

"At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked, will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla." -- Charles Darwin (1871) The Descent of Man

In case readers don't know or for those like yourself where English is a second language, an anthropomorphous ape was an empirical invention where black people look like apes hence the bridge between white skin academic trash and baboons.
 




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