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NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone



 
 
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  #2  
Old September 14th 11, 01:21 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Quadibloc
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Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On Sep 13, 4:54*pm, Doug Freyburger wrote:

Didn't I read a couple of months ago that the Webb had been cancelled?
Was its funding restored or do I remember wrong?


A bill was voted on, and approved, that sort of recommended that its
funding should be cancelled next year. But nothing is final yet.

John Savard
  #3  
Old September 14th 11, 04:20 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jorge R. Frank
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Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On 09/13/2011 07:21 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
On Sep 13, 4:54 pm, Doug wrote:

Didn't I read a couple of months ago that the Webb had been cancelled?
Was its funding restored or do I remember wrong?


A bill was voted on, and approved, that sort of recommended that its
funding should be cancelled next year. But nothing is final yet.


Approved by only one of the two houses of Congress. Very, very far from
final.
  #4  
Old September 15th 11, 01:59 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Mike DiCenso
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Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On Sep 13, 8:20*pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
On 09/13/2011 07:21 PM, Quadibloc wrote:

On Sep 13, 4:54 pm, Doug *wrote:


Didn't I read a couple of months ago that the Webb had been cancelled?
Was its funding restored or do I remember wrong?


A bill was voted on, and approved, that sort of recommended that its
funding should be cancelled next year. But nothing is final yet.


Approved by only one of the two houses of Congress. Very, very far from
final.


With more progress in the construction of the JWST like this, it makes
it harder to cancel, too. Remember that in addition to the mirrors
being finished, there are several instruments and hardwarethat are
nearing or are completed as well. I think once all the difficult stuff
is done, you'll see a big improvement in how fast things come together
for the spacecraft. Now is NOT the time to cancel.
-Mike
  #5  
Old September 15th 11, 04:52 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:59:44 -0700 (PDT), Mike DiCenso
wrote:

I think once all the difficult stuff
is done, you'll see a big improvement in how fast things come together
for the spacecraft.


Well, anything would be a big improvement over their past performance
(or lack thereof.)

Now is NOT the time to cancel.


Sure, let's reward incompetence. Again. "You're 800% over budget and
five years behind schedule? No problem, here's another check courtesy
the US taxpayer. Like the check style? It's the same one we used for
International Space Station and the Curiosity rover. Nice, eh?"

This HAS to stop. Make an example out of Webb or we'll never see
another Big Ticket program from NASA come in on budget again.
Guaranteed. They'll have absolutely no incentive to propose realistic
budgets and schedules, knowing NASA will always bail them out.

Brian
  #6  
Old September 15th 11, 03:02 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On 9/14/2011 7:52 PM, Brian Thorn wrote:

This HAS to stop. Make an example out of Webb or we'll never see
another Big Ticket program from NASA come in on budget again.
Guaranteed. They'll have absolutely no incentive to propose realistic
budgets and schedules, knowing NASA will always bail them out.




I still think (looking at the design) that it was a major mistake to
partner with the Tholians on this thing.


Pat
  #7  
Old September 15th 11, 07:12 PM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
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Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

Since JWST operates in the infrared part of the spectrum (like the
WISE satellite),
would it be useful for finding Jupiter-sized (or smaller) planets in
or near our solar
system or brown dwarf type celestial bodies?
  #8  
Old September 15th 11, 10:22 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Quadibloc
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Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On Sep 14, 9:52*pm, Brian Thorn wrote:

This HAS to stop. Make an example out of Webb or we'll never see
another Big Ticket program from NASA come in on budget again.
Guaranteed. They'll have absolutely no incentive to propose realistic
budgets and schedules, knowing NASA will always bail them out.


If they do that, it's too bad that the astronomers can't make the
Federal Government fund all the large ground-based telescopes or other
astronomy projects that were cancelled in order to get the money for
the Webb.

In any event, it would be a huge waste of taxpayer money to cancel it
now.

Instead, things have to be nipped in the bud.

Earlier oversight, to keep Webb within budget, would also have been an
idea. However, much of the increase in the cost of Webb came from
adding useful features to make up for other lost projects - not due to
waste, due to money being spent so that value is not received.

So if an expansion in the telescope's scope was not disallowed at the
time, it seems unreasonable to use it as an excuse to cancel it now.

Also, to think of cancelling it would mean that you fail to see the
James Webb telescope as _urgently needed_, and as likely to provide
_huge benefits_ after it becomes operational.

What I'm concerned about is that it's such an ambitious project, it
could be launched and somehow fail to work when it reaches its
station. Spending extra money to protect against any initially
unanticipated risks, instead of engaging in false economy, is what
makes more sense to me.

But then I think there ought to be as many Hubbles up there as there
are KH-11s. According to Wikipedia, there were fourteen of them
launched.

At any rate, the Kodak mirror in the Smithsonian should instead have
been put in orbit on a second Hubble. And there should be a second
Webb ready to go, after the first one succeeds - or, if it fails, to
be modified to avoid the cause of its failure, and then go.

In general, automated space probes should be done that way, since the
actual marginal costs of fabrication and launch are so small compared
to the design costs, it makes sense to amortize the design costs to
obtain greater reliability and more return of data.

If there were a third Voyager, it could have visited Pluto while it
still had an atmosphere. And these costs are chickenfeed compared to
the ISS white elephant manned space program.

John Savard
  #9  
Old September 17th 11, 07:09 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Mike DiCenso
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Posts: 150
Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On Sep 14, 8:52*pm, Brian Thorn wrote:
On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 17:59:44 -0700 (PDT), Mike DiCenso

wrote:
I think once all the difficult stuff
is done, you'll see a big improvement in how fast things come together
for the spacecraft.


Well, anything would be a big improvement over their past performance
(or lack thereof.)

Now is NOT the time to cancel.


Sure, let's reward incompetence. Again. "You're 800% over budget and
five years behind schedule? No problem, here's another check courtesy
the US taxpayer. Like the check style? It's the same one we used for
International Space Station and the Curiosity rover. Nice, eh?"

This HAS to stop. Make an example out of Webb or we'll never see
another Big Ticket program from NASA come in on budget again.
Guaranteed. They'll have absolutely no incentive to propose realistic
budgets and schedules, knowing NASA will always bail them out.


Too late, Brian. Way too late. This should have been cancelled years
ago, or delayed out into an R&D program for a big space telescope. But
now that we're this far with the damn thing, I want to see it
finished, just like Hubble survived through it's tumultuous
development years and delays. In the end, it was worth all the money
spent and the heartaches.
-Mike
  #10  
Old September 18th 11, 01:39 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Brian Thorn[_2_]
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Posts: 2,266
Default NASA'S Webb Telescope Completes Mirror Coating Milestone

On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 23:09:41 -0700 (PDT), Mike DiCenso
wrote:

This HAS to stop. Make an example out of Webb or we'll never see
another Big Ticket program from NASA come in on budget again.
Guaranteed. They'll have absolutely no incentive to propose realistic
budgets and schedules, knowing NASA will always bail them out.


Too late, Brian. Way too late.


Nonsense. It is not to late to save spending another $3.6 billion on
the damned thing. $3.6 billion is a couple of Cassinis or Hubbles. Or
a dozen Keplers. It was only supposed to cost $1 billion when it got
the go ahead, remember and is now up to $6 billion, rising to $8 by
the time the thing finally gets into orbit. Good money after bad here
applies, I think.

But now that we're this far with the damn thing, I want to see it
finished


The you write them a check. I don't want any more of my taxes going to
these incompetent or worse, deliberately lying managers. Kick these
guys to the curb, lick our wounds, and move on.

Brian
 




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