Cost of Space Travel (and communication)

"William Mook" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 8:34 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:


You mean you guys actually ...pay...for laptop Internet service?

I already pay for Internet service on my google phone, so I simply
use that as a router/tether. Free /unlimited/ down/up loads either
wireless or through usb. I use a netbook btw, not a clunky, hot
heavy and battery-hungry laptop.

It's only a matter of time before phones and laptops become one
in the same. When that finally happens, we can have the temerity
to consider this the computer-age. We're not there yet imho.


s

Jonathan wrote:
"William Mook" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 8:34 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:


You mean you guys actually ...pay...for laptop Internet service?

I already pay for Internet service on my google phone, so I simply
use that as a router/tether. Free /unlimited/ down/up loads either
wireless or through usb. I use a netbook btw, not a clunky, hot
heavy and battery-hungry laptop.

Really, what provider do you have? I'm genuinely curious since most that
advertise "unlimited" actually in the small print limit you to typically 5GB
a month.


It's only a matter of time before phones and laptops become one
in the same. When that finally happens, we can have the temerity
to consider this the computer-age. We're not there yet imho.

Eh, I like to keep them separate. A phone is too small for an effective
laptop and a laptop is too large to be an effective phone.




s

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

On Feb 24, 7:49*pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:
Jonathan wrote:
"William Mook" wrote in message
....
On Feb 23, 8:34 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:

You mean you guys actually ...pay...for laptop Internet service?

I already pay for Internet service on my google phone, so I simply
use that as a router/tether. *Free /unlimited/ down/up loads either
wireless or through usb. I use a netbook btw, not a clunky, hot
heavy and battery-hungry laptop.

Really, what provider do you have? I'm genuinely curious since most that
advertise "unlimited" actually in the small print limit you to typically 5GB
a month.


Yes, unlimited in my case is 2.5 Q-bit per month for the $12 per month
fee, and 0.5 Q-bit per month for the $1 per month fee and 0.1 Q-bit
per month for the $1 per year fee. 0.1 Q-bit per month is about
1,250x larger than your 100 Gbyte rate.


It's only a matter of time before phones and laptops become one
in the same. When that finally happens, we can have the temerity
to consider this the computer-age. We're not there yet imho.

Eh, I like to keep them separate. *A phone is too small for an effective
laptop and a laptop is too large to be an effective phone.

This is a platform issue. Change the platform, and what is effective
and what is not changes. In 1988 Hans Moravec spoke of 'magic
gloves' and 'magic glasses' that provide interactive capabilities with
computer systems. Today's screen based GUIs will be displaced with
3DEUIs (three dimensional environment user interfaces) - where
touchpads are replaced with magic gloves, screens are replaced with
magic glasses, keyboards replaced with speech recognition.

Today's Google Earth & Sketchup will be replaced with seamless
realtime interactive Virtual Overlay Experience (VOX). So, a laptop
is replaced by a pair of glasses and gloves. A cell phone is replaced
by a headphone and microphone set. (a collection of microphones in a
collar and in the gloves and glasses operate together for noise and
echo cancellation using advanced software - as well as active noise
suppression in the earpieces) The headphone/glasses/gloves
combination is equipped with solid state optical gyros and
accelerometers as well as GPS so that precise orientation and
positioning of the head and hands is known by the system at all
times.

Basically, just as many wear a blue-tooth earpiece today, folks in the
near future will wear a set of eyeglasses that project UHDTV-3D images
into each eye, while allowing visibility of the surrounding
environment through the glasses. So, virtual images will float in
space around the user at convenient locations. Gloves allow the user
to reach out and manipulate items in the 3D environment without
obstructing the real world around them. Voice interaction replaces
keyboard interaction, while gesture reading is raised to new levels.

This wearable product will not be recognizable as a laptop or handset
as we now know them. Outward looking cameras along with inward
looking cameras - and mapping software allow people to virtual
conference - by mobilizing face models of users in remote locations in
real time. So, a camera located in the magic glasses pick up eye
orientation, eyelid opening, even mouth movement - and despite the odd
angles of the camera, the computer maps that in real time to a facial
model in real time, and animates that model in real time for
distribution to others in their virtual overlay experience. So, folks
can appear before another and talk with them naturally, then disappear
after the conversation. This can happen even while you're driving our
car. A person can appear in the empty passenger seat next to you, and
you have to turn your head to hear them and see them - while you can
turn your head back to the road to tend to driving for example.

The point of all this is the handset/laptop paradigm is a function of
our limited ideas about what constitutes a platform - such platform
paradigms themselves are due for fundamental shifts in approach -
along the lines I've described.


s

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote in message
...
Jonathan wrote:
"William Mook" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 8:34 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:


You mean you guys actually ...pay...for laptop Internet service?

I already pay for Internet service on my google phone, so I simply
use that as a router/tether. Free /unlimited/ down/up loads either
wireless or through usb. I use a netbook btw, not a clunky, hot
heavy and battery-hungry laptop.

Really, what provider do you have? I'm genuinely curious since most that
advertise "unlimited" actually in the small print limit you to typically 5GB a
month.


T-Mobile. I signed up after they put out the original sidekick. The plan says
unlimited megabits then and still does for the phone. But when I looked into
the cost of adding a laptop, it was like $60 a month and had a 5gb limit.
So by linking through the phone I can bypass that limit, and the cost, with
the netbook. A netbook is the way to go imo. The only real loss is not
having a dvd drive. Bought an asus and I works great. Batteries last twice
as long, it's weighs nothing, costs nothing and runs XP or 7 like a home pc.


...............................................
Data: 268 / Unlimited Megabytes

Service Used Included Remaining Time Period
Data 268 Unlimited Unlimited Whenever
.................................................. ...



It's only a matter of time before phones and laptops become one
in the same. When that finally happens, we can have the temerity
to consider this the computer-age. We're not there yet imho.

Eh, I like to keep them separate. A phone is too small for an effective
laptop and a laptop is too large to be an effective phone.


Right, but it's really only needing a breakthrough in displays to make it
happen.
As in a display that can fit in a phone, but expand to a laptop. I hear they're
on the way. Some kind of thin sheet that can be rolled up.







s

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

"William Mook" wrote in message
...

Today's Google Earth & Sketchup will be replaced with seamless
realtime interactive Virtual Overlay Experience (VOX). So, a laptop
is replaced by a pair of glasses and gloves. A cell phone is replaced
by a headphone and microphone set.


Now we're talking! Even virtual telepathy someday.
Think a name, and ...say 'hello'! Or should I say
'think hello'?

The bulk of humanity, connected to each other in real time.
Imagine the possibilities of that kind of massive parallel
connectivity.

Where a good rumor, story or idea, causes humanity to 'tremble'
as one. A brain, not made up of countless neurons, but countless
intelligent minds. Where even the weakest cries in the night
can summon the combined weight of humanity for aid and
comfort.

Producing a collective wisdom every bit the definition of God
which, when needed, 'speaks' to each and everyone alike.

And the millennia old schism between science and religion at last
comes to an end. So science, heaven, humanity, and religion
coevolves into one-in-the-same.


"Heaven is so far of the Mind
That were the Mind dissolved
The Site of it by Architect
Could not again be proved

'Tis vast as our Capacity
As fair as our idea
To Him of adequate desire
No further 'tis, than Here "


Mathematics can prove only one thing when it comes to the real world.
That humanity is destined to swim in unspeakable joy!


"To tell the beauty would decrease,
To state the Spell demean,
There is a syllableless sea
Of which it is the sign."





s

On Feb 25, 10:27*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"William Mook" wrote in message

...

Today's Google Earth & Sketchup will be replaced with seamless
realtime interactive Virtual Overlay Experience (VOX). * So, a laptop
is replaced by a pair of glasses and gloves. *A cell phone is replaced
by a headphone and microphone set.

Now we're talking! *Even virtual telepathy someday.
Think a name, and ...say 'hello'! Or should I say
'think hello'?

The bulk of humanity, connected to each other in real time.
Imagine the possibilities of that kind of massive parallel
connectivity.

Where a good rumor, story or idea, causes humanity to 'tremble'
as one. A brain, not made up of countless neurons, but countless
intelligent minds. Where even the weakest cries in the night
can summon the combined weight of humanity for aid and
comfort.

Producing a collective wisdom every bit the definition of God
which, when needed, 'speaks' to each and everyone alike.

And the millennia old schism between science and religion at last
comes to an end. So science, heaven, humanity, and religion
coevolves into one-in-the-same.

* * *"Heaven is so far of the Mind
* * *That were the Mind dissolved
* * * The Site of it by Architect
* * * Could not again be proved

* * *'Tis vast as our Capacity
* * *As fair as our idea
* * *To Him of adequate desire
* * * No further 'tis, than Here "

Mathematics can prove only one thing when it comes to the real world.
That humanity is destined to swim in unspeakable joy!

* * "To tell the beauty would decrease,
* * * To state the Spell demean,
* * * There is a syllableless sea
* * * Of which it is the sign."

s

Well, that's an interface beyond the one I've imagined, but I do
believe it will come. Arthur Clarke wrote of what you describe in
2061. Back in 1968 Clarke also wrote Lion of Comarre - wherein he
describes a city where all the inhabitants live in a virtual reality
(though Vernor Vinge in Bookworm Run in 1966. William Gibson and
others added flesh to it, and serious research didn't start until the
mid-80s.

Though I have been thinking about it since the 60s.

In addition to the peta-bit data link backbone I've described above,
there is a way of mobilizing resource as you say - in response to
human will.

One of the issues is that our beliefs about government and markets do
not comport with reality. This explains the failures of society to
resolve long-standing issues and suggests that fresh thinking can
resolve them very simply.

Ths flies in the face of popular notions about people being the fault
of their conditions, along with cuationary tales of misfortune and
hopeful tales of people overcoming adversity. Very much the same
emotions swirled around the Royal Rights of Kings back in the day when
everyone knew for sure that God wouldn't suffer an evil tyrant. The
same stories of failure, retribution and success were used to defend
those notions.

The emotive stories and how people are controlled by them are
recounted by Alice Miller, in her book DRAMA OF THE GIFTED CHILD.
This explains our fascination with violence, power, wealth and
limitless growth of appetite. These are not natural impulses, but
only seem natural to a society where all members suffer the same
mental illness.

The specific failures of our economy and government processes are
recounted by Ken Arrow received a Nobel Prize in 1971 by showing that
money and votes don't work. This is detailed in SOCIAL CHOICE AND
HUMAN VALUES.

I have modified the work of Gerard Medioni in controlling robotic
resources with tensor measures to resolve the issues related by
Arrow. Implemented in a distributed array of digital agents, this is
the first operating layer of the grand strategy you recount here -
where the entire weight of human conciousness comes to bear upon the
needs and desires of each of us who are part of the human community.

I have summarized some of these thoughts here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=istE1bpoDPg

On Feb 26, 2:40*pm, William Mook wrote:
On Feb 25, 10:27*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:



"William Mook" wrote in message

....

Today's Google Earth & Sketchup will be replaced with seamless
realtime interactive Virtual Overlay Experience (VOX). * So, a laptop
is replaced by a pair of glasses and gloves. *A cell phone is replaced
by a headphone and microphone set.

Now we're talking! *Even virtual telepathy someday.
Think a name, and ...say 'hello'! Or should I say
'think hello'?

The bulk of humanity, connected to each other in real time.
Imagine the possibilities of that kind of massive parallel
connectivity.

Where a good rumor, story or idea, causes humanity to 'tremble'
as one. A brain, not made up of countless neurons, but countless
intelligent minds. Where even the weakest cries in the night
can summon the combined weight of humanity for aid and
comfort.

Producing a collective wisdom every bit the definition of God
which, when needed, 'speaks' to each and everyone alike.

And the millennia old schism between science and religion at last
comes to an end. So science, heaven, humanity, and religion
coevolves into one-in-the-same.

* * *"Heaven is so far of the Mind
* * *That were the Mind dissolved
* * * The Site of it by Architect
* * * Could not again be proved

* * *'Tis vast as our Capacity
* * *As fair as our idea
* * *To Him of adequate desire
* * * No further 'tis, than Here "

Mathematics can prove only one thing when it comes to the real world.
That humanity is destined to swim in unspeakable joy!

* * "To tell the beauty would decrease,
* * * To state the Spell demean,
* * * There is a syllableless sea
* * * Of which it is the sign."

s

Well, that's an interface beyond the one I've imagined, but I do
believe it will come. *Arthur Clarke wrote of what you describe in
2061. *Back in 1968 Clarke also wrote Lion of Comarre - wherein he
describes a city where all the inhabitants live in a virtual reality
(though Vernor Vinge in Bookworm Run in 1966. *William Gibson and
others added flesh to it, and serious research didn't start until the
mid-80s.

Though I have been thinking about it since the 60s.

In addition to the peta-bit data link backbone I've described above,
there is a way of mobilizing resource as you say - in response to
human will.

One of the issues is that our beliefs about government and markets do
not comport with reality. *This explains the failures of society to
resolve long-standing issues and suggests that fresh thinking can
resolve them very simply.

Ths flies in the face of popular notions about people being the fault
of their conditions, along with cuationary tales of misfortune and
hopeful tales of people overcoming adversity. *Very much the same
emotions swirled around the Royal Rights of Kings back in the day when
everyone knew for sure that God wouldn't suffer an evil tyrant. *The
same stories of failure, retribution and success were used to defend
those notions.

The emotive stories and how people are controlled by them are
recounted by Alice Miller, in her book DRAMA OF THE GIFTED CHILD.
This explains our fascination with violence, power, wealth and
limitless growth of appetite. *These are not natural impulses, but
only seem natural to a society where all members suffer the same
mental illness.

The specific failures of our economy and government processes are
recounted by Ken Arrow received a Nobel Prize in 1971 by showing that
money and votes don't work. *This is detailed in SOCIAL CHOICE AND
HUMAN VALUES.

I have modified the work of Gerard Medioni in controlling robotic
resources with tensor measures to resolve the issues related by
Arrow. *Implemented in a distributed array of digital agents, this is
the first operating layer of the grand strategy you recount here -
where the entire weight of human conciousness comes to bear upon the
needs and desires of each of us who are part of the human community.

I have summarized some of these thoughts here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=istE1bpoDPg

In short, we have;

(1) telecom backbone
(2) tensor decision making
(3) telepresence/telerobotics
(4) semi-autonomou operation
(5) fully autonomous operation
(6) self-replicating machines

I have described here the first two layers - folks like Honda and
others are working on elements of the third layer. AI researchers
along with growth toward the singulariy are working on the balance.

In the end we will have the sort of world Jonathan envisions and it
will be wonderful.

On Feb 25, 7:32*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote in ...



Jonathan wrote:
"William Mook" wrote in message
....
On Feb 23, 8:34 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:

You mean you guys actually ...pay...for laptop Internet service?

I already pay for Internet service on my google phone, so I simply
use that as a router/tether. *Free /unlimited/ down/up loads either
wireless or through usb. I use a netbook btw, not a clunky, hot
heavy and battery-hungry laptop.

Really, what provider do you have? I'm genuinely curious since most that
advertise "unlimited" actually in the small print limit you to typically 5GB a
month.

T-Mobile. I signed up after they put out the original sidekick. The plan says
unlimited megabits then and still does for the phone. But when I looked into
the cost of adding a laptop, it was like $60 a month and had a 5gb limit.
So by linking through the phone I can bypass that limit, and the cost, with
the netbook. A netbook is the way to go imo. The only real loss is not
having a dvd drive. Bought an asus and I works great. Batteries last twice
as long, it's weighs nothing, costs nothing and runs XP or 7 like a home pc.

..............................................
Data: 268 / Unlimited Megabytes

Service * *Used * * *Included * * *Remaining * * Time Period
*Data * * * *268 * * * Unlimited * * *Unlimited * * Whenever
.................................................. ..



It's only a matter of time before phones and laptops become one
in the same. When that finally happens, we can have the temerity
to consider this the computer-age. We're not there yet imho.

Eh, I like to keep them separate. *A phone is too small for an effective
laptop and a laptop is too large to be an effective phone.

Right, but it's really only needing a breakthrough in displays to make it
happen.
As in a display that can fit in a phone, but expand to a laptop. I hear they're
on the way. Some kind of thin sheet that can be rolled up.



s

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

Or a transparent display that you wear like sunglasses - which
projects a virtual 3D display above an icon in 3-space. That's the
easiest. So, likely the first.

You have a virtual screen floating above processor - placed and
oriented in your visual field of view to correspond to the location
and orientation of the processor. Ditto with a virtual keyboard. A
small camera set watches the motion of your fingers tapping on a table
top relative to the location of virtual keys.

This is also very secure since others cannot see what you're looking
at - unless you ask them to share with their 3D sunglasses.

On Feb 26, 3:28*pm, William Mook wrote:
On Feb 25, 7:32*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:



"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote in ...

Jonathan wrote:
"William Mook" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 8:34 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:

You mean you guys actually ...pay...for laptop Internet service?

I already pay for Internet service on my google phone, so I simply
use that as a router/tether. *Free /unlimited/ down/up loads either
wireless or through usb. I use a netbook btw, not a clunky, hot
heavy and battery-hungry laptop.

Really, what provider do you have? I'm genuinely curious since most that
advertise "unlimited" actually in the small print limit you to typically 5GB a
month.

T-Mobile. I signed up after they put out the original sidekick. The plan says
unlimited megabits then and still does for the phone. But when I looked into
the cost of adding a laptop, it was like $60 a month and had a 5gb limit.

On Feb 26, 3:33*pm, William Mook wrote:
On Feb 26, 3:28*pm, William Mook wrote:



On Feb 25, 7:32*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:

"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote in ...

Jonathan wrote:
"William Mook" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 8:34 pm, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:

You mean you guys actually ...pay...for laptop Internet service?

I already pay for Internet service on my google phone, so I simply
use that as a router/tether. *Free /unlimited/ down/up loads either
wireless or through usb. I use a netbook btw, not a clunky, hot
heavy and battery-hungry laptop.

Really, what provider do you have? I'm genuinely curious since most that
advertise "unlimited" actually in the small print limit you to typically 5GB a
month.

T-Mobile. I signed up after they put out the original sidekick. The plan says
unlimited megabits then and still does for the phone. But when I looked into
the cost of adding a laptop, it was like $60 a month and had a 5gb limit.
So by linking through the phone I can bypass that limit, and the cost, with
the netbook. A netbook is the way to go imo. The only real loss is not
having a dvd drive. Bought an asus and I works great. Batteries last twice
as long, it's weighs nothing, costs nothing and runs XP or 7 like a home pc.

..............................................
Data: 268 / Unlimited Megabytes

Service * *Used * * *Included * * *Remaining * * Time Period
*Data * * * *268 * * * Unlimited * * *Unlimited * * Whenever
.................................................. ..

It's only a matter of time before phones and laptops become one
in the same. When that finally happens, we can have the temerity
to consider this the computer-age. We're not there yet imho.

Eh, I like to keep them separate. *A phone is too small for an effective
laptop and a laptop is too large to be an effective phone.

Right, but it's really only needing a breakthrough in displays to make it
happen.
As in a display that can fit in a phone, but expand to a laptop. I hear they're
on the way. Some kind of thin sheet that can be rolled up.

s

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

Or a transparent display that you wear like sunglasses - which
projects a virtual 3D display above an icon in 3-space. *That's the
easiest. *So, likely the first.

You have a virtual screen floating above processor - placed and
oriented in your visual field of view to correspond to the location
and orientation of the processor. *Ditto with a virtual keyboard. *A
small camera set watches the motion of your fingers tapping on a table
top relative to the location of virtual keys.

This is also very secure since others cannot see what you're looking
at - unless you ask them to share with their 3D sunglasses.

This sort of thing tied in with 3D goggles - that you can wear and
still see things in your environment - to create virtual keyboard and
virtual display and virtual mouse or trackpad - tied to the
orientation and location of a handset. * Or placed there and
'released' so you can use the handset AS a handset.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/8193/

http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/accessories/98d3/

Something like this with a solid state MEMS gyro and software to allow
you to place the 24 inch screen (and keyboard) in space - while
simultaneously allowing you to see through the screen - around the
virtual projection while not seeing through the virtual projection.

A transparent display isn't a problem. Making selected regions opaque
on demand is more of a challenge. The optics of virtual imagery
overlaying real scene is a slightly more of a challenge. This is the
subject of current patent activity so I can't say much more except
there are solutions - haha..

The ipod virtual display with the virtual laser keyboard connected to
a handset sized computer is very very near. Additional software and
hardware features to implement the details I mentioned - is very near.