Fraud in Gagarin's Flight Record Claims -- FAI Doesn't Care

Irwin Fletcher wrote:
"Thomas Lee Elifritz" wrote:

As in weapons of mass destruction?


Hey Thomas,

Why don't you ask the Kurds about those weapons of mass destruction?

Or are all those dead in shallow graves liars too? Perhaps they all just
died simultaneously of heart attacks, and the Republican Guard was just
gracious enough to arrange for their burial.

The Kurds would probably tel lhim that they are disgusted that the US
sold Saddam chemical weapon agents and components which were then used
on Kurds...

"Vladimir Makarenko" wrote in message
. ..
Brian Thorn wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:59:18 -0400, Vladimir Makarenko
wrote:



But whatever number of commas you will change in these records, add or
subtract a couple degrees, it will never change the fact that Soviets
did not lie about their achievements: they were first in space.


If the details are so unimportant, ask yourself why did the Soviets
lie about them in 1961?


You mean they had to disclose every single thing about superiority they
had including design details of their spacecrafts and their flights?
They said more than enough. All that crap that they "lied" is just another
loser whining.


Soviets lied about all sorts of minor details...like their vast military
industrial complex that was created for the sole purpose of researching and
manufacturing chemical and biological weapons.

They lied about the Katyn massacre. They lied about the gulag system.

The entire Soviet Union was nothing but lies.

The entire solar system is littered with Soviet space junk, failed missions
that they "forgot" to mention.

And btw, - recently US Airforce took out of US National Archives thousands
of documents including those dated by fifties. So what lies from mid XX
cent. is necessary to protect today hiding the truth?

VM.

Brian

Mary Pegg wrote:

Interesting, but surely a bigger obstacle to the FAI recognising
the claims is that Gagarin bailed out, and therefore did not
complete the flight?

Anything to get the butt ****ing dumb American public off the glaring
NASA and administration technical incompetence ball, eh, Mary?

That's fine with me, go ahead, give it your best shot. Make my day.


sigh

My point is that if the FAI don't care about the bailing out, they certainly
won't care that the launch location is a couple of degrees out.

Gagarin will be remembered long after the FAI has been consigned to history.

What your point is exactly, FIIK.

That's a good point.

My point? What's the FAI and why should I care?

I don't see how they are going to stop me from launching a rocket from
the Bahamas using Russian engines.

Jim Oberg is an obvious Bush, Griffin and NASA apologist, er ...
propagandist. I often wonder if he gets paid to post here.
Really, lately, it's been one dumb thing to another with him.

The NASA art thing was really bad, but this is beyond the pale.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

Irwin Fletcher wrote:

As in weapons of mass destruction?



Hey Thomas,

Why don't you ask the Kurds about those weapons of mass destruction?

Or are all those dead in shallow graves liars too? Perhaps they all just
died simultaneously of heart attacks, and the Republican Guard was just
gracious enough to arrange for their burial.

Saddam was a petty dictator, there are many just as bad or worse.

I'm too busy trying to figure out why Bush isn't doing SQUAT for Darfur.

Airfields, a massive embassy compound, Bush never had any intention of
handing over IRAQ to the IRAQIES, it always was about conquest there.

IRAN, Syria, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, it's all the oil end game. That's why
they're so ****ed off about Mexico and Venezuala. You just don't get it.

The trouble is, they're so ****ing incompetent and dumb, they screwed it
up just like every other thing they've touched. VSE/ESAS in particular.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

"Sander Vesik" wrote
The Kurds would probably tel lhim that they are disgusted that the US
sold Saddam chemical weapon agents and components which were then used
on Kurds...


Since we didn't, I doubt they would --
can't you guys break the chain of telling lies to each other?

Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov wrote:

So now they are last in space.

They are unarguably first in manned space right now.

They were first then, and they are first now.

Any argument you make against that is totally unfounded and revisionist.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

On 19 Apr 2006 15:26:34 -0700, wrote:

So now they are last in space.

Ironic, isn't it?

No, just uninformed.

When the Rusisans first went into Space, we all
thought that just 10 years later, at least 10 ohter coutries would be
in Space.

And surely, just a few years later the USA was the second country in
Space.

Years?

Sputnik 1 (USSR): October 4, 1957
Explorer 1 (USA): January 31, 1958

Vostok 1 (Gagarin): April 12, 1961
Freedom 7 (Shepard): May 5, 1961 (suborbital)
Friendship 7 (Glenn): February 20, 1962

But then things went weird. Now, 45 years later, not only no other
country has joined these two, but one of these two -

Er, pay no attention to China's Shenzhou 5 and Shenzhou 6...

USA - lost all of
its knowledge as how to safely return spacecraft to Earth.

Funny, they just did so on August 9, 2005.

Brian

Brian Thorn wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:59:18 -0400, Vladimir Makarenko
wrote:



But whatever number of commas you will change in these records, add or
subtract a couple degrees, it will never change the fact that Soviets
did not lie about their achievements: they were first in space.


If the details are so unimportant, ask yourself why did the Soviets
lie about them in 1961?

Because he just stated that the details are unimportant.

You are the ones asking, not us. Jeez.

http://cosmic.lifeform.org

wrote:
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:

Mary Pegg wrote:


Jim Oberg wrote:



This topic came up in an earlier discussion, so here is a
section of my book, 'Star-Crossed Orbits', that tries
to put it into perspective:


snip

Interesting, but surely a bigger obstacle to the FAI recognising
the claims is that Gagarin bailed out, and therefore did not
complete the flight?

Anything to get the butt ****ing dumb American public off the glaring
NASA and administration technical incompetence ball, eh, Mary?

That's fine with me, go ahead, give it your best shot. Make my day.

Punk.



Thomas, I don't think you realize the inmportance of such things. As it
stands, USA id just 1 Guinness world records ahead of the next
competitiors: Germans. As the Germans plan 2 new world records planned
in hte next month: one for eating the most sourkraut while singing
"Deutschland, Deutschland, Ueber Alles!" and the other one for writing
the most anti-Serb articles in a period of one week. USA has just one
planned: the record number of foreign journalists tortured by being
made to eat the most number of huamburgers.

If USA is to keep its coveted World leadership in the Guinnnes race,
Soviet primacy in space travel have to be taken away and given to our
good old Ameircan Wernher Von Braun. No, wait! Wernher and his team
were also Germans!

Unfortunately, after the death of Wernher Von Braun and his Nazi SS
team, their blueprints for space travel have been lost because NASA
doesn't have any transaltors from German.

But USA still holds the most important space travel record for the
greatest number of astronauts taken to space by the Russian Zoyuz
craft.

Moreover, I hear NASA is deadlocked with China and India in a race to
be the first country other than Russia to be able to send a craft into
space and be able to return it wihtout any major explosions. I hear
NASA is planning to spend many $billions on this noble task. Although
this can be solved much more cheaply by hiring a German translator...

That's why we post here on sci.space.policy, we are just spilling over
because of the cross posting. What we want is for the US, Russia, China
and India, and every other third world country to participate in the
development of space, cooperatively and independently. It is good for
education, good for diplomacy, good for the populations, and good for
technology, and hopefully, if it's done right, good for the environment.

It sure beats the hell out of a nightmarish descent into global food,
water, oil and resource wars, weaponization, and nuclear armageddon.


http://cosmic.lifeform.org

On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:25:15 -0400, Vladimir Makarenko
wrote:

If the details are so unimportant, ask yourself why did the Soviets
lie about them in 1961?

You mean they had to disclose every single thing about superiority they
had including design details of their spacecrafts and their flights?

Well, that the spacecraft wasn't safe for the cosmonaut to land in...
that's a pretty important detail. Nevermind that, per the aviation
rules of the time (which the Soviets publicly supported) bailing out
of an aircraft or spacecraft negated the flight.

They said more than enough. All that crap that they "lied" is just
another loser whining.

Nonsense. The only one whining around here is you. The rest of us have
acknowledged that Gagarin was heroic and the first man to travel in
space.

And btw, - recently US Airforce took out of US National Archives
thousands of documents including those dated by fifties.

Reference?

Brian