Newbie looking at buying a scope....

OK, I'm a rank newbie, so please be gentle. I've got a 7-year old
budding astronomer; she's been interested in getting a scope for a
couple of years. We've been using an old pair of 8X40 binocs, and she
seem to be maintaining an interest. She's able to pick out several
constellations and she's kind of got the idea behind star charts,
although we really haven't been able to find much, mostly because of
our optics. So for her B-day, I thought it's time to get her a real
telescope. I've been looking for a couple of months, and now her b-day
is 2 weeks away.....

The "best" I've come across so far is either an old-style wooden base
Orion 6" SkyQuest XT6 Dobsonian (F/8.0, 1200mm) on sale for $230; pros
are the aperture and the general good quality, and a very solid base;
with the included objectives we should be able to pick out a lot of the
interesting "stuff" in both the solar system and nearby stellar
neighbourhood. Downside is the size (36 lbs with the base, 50" long)-
it'll be a pig (but not impossible) to carry along on camping trips,
where it'll be used most. Also, it's completely manual, and she'll have
a fairly large amount of technical stuff to learn in order to use it -
no mean feat for an 8-year-old.

The alternative (same price) is the Meade ETX-70AT 70mm (F/5, 350mm)
refractor with the computer starfinder. Upside is, of course, the
Autostar starfinder - it'll be much easier to keep her interested if
she can see a few neato things right away. Also, it's very portable
(weighs about 12 lbs with all the accessories) and comes with a
carrying case - no problem popping it on the picnic table and away we
go. Also, it's supposed to be useful as a spotting scope - so double
duty. Downside, I've read, is that it'll only give us a maximum
practical magnification of about 50-60X, and it's got fairly cheap
construction and not good-quality optics. It's a good wide angle scope,
but it's not so good for planets or deep space. I can just imagine -
Saturn will be a tiny smudge - she'll take one look then wander away.

So, I'm asking you - what are your thoughts - portable, or good quality
images? Starfinder computer, or learn the old-fashioned way? I'd
welcome any suggestions.... have any of you been where I am before?

Thanks!
ECM
-------------
Please reply to the newsgroup, email addy is a spam trap!

If you can possibly handle the transportation (did you know Orion
also do a 4.5' Dob?) get the Dob, it'll show *A LOT* more and probably
do a lot more to fire your daughters imagination.

If anything the Dob will be easier to setup and use than the ETX, you
just plonk the scope on the mount, stick your eye into the eyepiece and
point! I'd doubt an 8 year old could setup and use an ETX (or any GOTO
scope) unaided, they can be quite fiddley.

Gaz

I

I'd stay away from the etx. 70mm isn't enough to really show much, and
if you want to whet her appetite, you don't want anything below 4 1/2".
The xt6 has good press, but it is hard to carry. I'd either get that, a
4 1/2" dob, or look for a 6" dob in the f/5 or f/6 range.

If portability is a big concern, you might look around a bit on line for
info on how people have made lightweight, portable travel scopes. Some
of them are very simple indeed, constructionwise. You can buy the optics
commercially or on the telescope making classifieds on astromart.com.
Pretty cheap, too. Something to think about.

'luck - Chris

wrote:
If you can possibly handle the transportation (did you know Orion
also do a 4.5' Dob?) get the Dob, it'll show *A LOT* more and probably
do a lot more to fire your daughters imagination.

If anything the Dob will be easier to setup and use than the ETX, you
just plonk the scope on the mount, stick your eye into the eyepiece and
point! I'd doubt an 8 year old could setup and use an ETX (or any GOTO
scope) unaided, they can be quite fiddley.

Gaz

I


An excellent recommendation, and here's a comparative review of the
scope by one of our newsgroup contributors:

http://www.astromart.com/articles/ar...?article_id=93

I just bought one for my nephew's 7 year-old daughter.

Maybe they'll both be working at Keck someday. ;-)

Uncle Bob

On 16 Jan 2005 18:21:16 -0800, wrote:

OK, I'm a rank newbie, so please be gentle. I've got a 7-year old
budding astronomer; she's been interested in getting a scope for a
couple of years. We've been using an old pair of 8X40 binocs, and she
seem to be maintaining an interest. She's able to pick out several
constellations and she's kind of got the idea behind star charts,
although we really haven't been able to find much, mostly because of
our optics. So for her B-day, I thought it's time to get her a real
telescope. I've been looking for a couple of months, and now her b-day
is 2 weeks away.....

The "best" I've come across so far is either an old-style wooden base
Orion 6" SkyQuest XT6 Dobsonian (F/8.0, 1200mm) on sale for $230; pros
are the aperture and the general good quality, and a very solid base;
with the included objectives we should be able to pick out a lot of the
interesting "stuff" in both the solar system and nearby stellar
neighbourhood. Downside is the size (36 lbs with the base, 50" long)-
it'll be a pig (but not impossible) to carry along on camping trips,
where it'll be used most. Also, it's completely manual, and she'll have
a fairly large amount of technical stuff to learn in order to use it -
no mean feat for an 8-year-old.

The alternative (same price) is the Meade ETX-70AT 70mm (F/5, 350mm)
refractor with the computer starfinder. Upside is, of course, the
Autostar starfinder - it'll be much easier to keep her interested if
she can see a few neato things right away. Also, it's very portable
(weighs about 12 lbs with all the accessories) and comes with a
carrying case - no problem popping it on the picnic table and away we
go. Also, it's supposed to be useful as a spotting scope - so double
duty. Downside, I've read, is that it'll only give us a maximum
practical magnification of about 50-60X, and it's got fairly cheap
construction and not good-quality optics. It's a good wide angle scope,
but it's not so good for planets or deep space. I can just imagine -
Saturn will be a tiny smudge - she'll take one look then wander away.

So, I'm asking you - what are your thoughts - portable, or good quality
images? Starfinder computer, or learn the old-fashioned way? I'd
welcome any suggestions.... have any of you been where I am before?

Thanks!
ECM


Thanks for giving such an articulate description of the user. Most
folks seeking advice leave out these very important details. I've been
a star-gazer most of my life, and grew up when electronic computers
and telescopes only met at large observatories. The casual learner
was left to discover things manually. Hence, I'm going to be biased
in favor of my own experiences.

I think there is much to be gained from any activity which cultivates
learning, understanding and the acquisition of skills, as a "manual"
telescope necessitates. Your daughter is a child, in the midst of
a rapid learning phase. When she begins to find things she previously
didn't know how to find, she will likely experience a great deal of
satisfaction with her self, and esteem the activity which provided
her with the chance for "earned" gratification.

The instant gratification (if you can call it that) of Goto scopes
essentially ROB learners of these character building opportunities. In the
end, the kids get frustrated, and whine "Is that all there is? I was
expecting so much more . . . "

On the technical side, 70mm is barely enough light grasp to see any
but the brightest deep sky objects. The scope may point to them, but
they'll be way too dim and fuzzy to make much of an impression.
Which is another great way to turn kids off of the hobby.

My (solicited) advice: Go with the 6" on a "manual" mount. Let the
girl turn it into an extension of herself, an instrument of her will,
and a tool for her development. She'll only be seven for a year, and will
grow into a telescope which will enable her for much longer.
Most of all, support her interest and enthusiasm as best you can.
Resist the urge to provide her with "instant gratification", and she
will be a better person for it for the rest of her life.

Good luck with which ever choice you make.

Cheers,
Larry G.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think that I was trying to get the
best of all worlds when I was considering the ETX-70AT; but I'm going
to bite the bullet and get a reflector. WHICH reflector is still up in
the air....

After I wrote this, I tracked down the Orion website to get more
detailed specs; I noticed that they have a couple of other scopes that
are quite interesting, mostly because of smaller size - the Starblast
Astro "kiddiescope" is a 4.5"; it looks like a great try at a true
young beginner's scope. I'm not sure about it though, its 450mm focal
length and F/4 - doesn't that mean that it'll be good with "low-power"
eyepieces but it won't do deep space well? It's a quite bit too short,
also - it could really use a tripod.

The other really interesting one is the SpaceProbe 130 EQ Reflector - a
5" 900mm F/6.9 - it's not much lighter than the 6" Dobsonian (30 vs.
34 lbs) but it's got an equatorial mount and an aluminum tripod that
folds for transport, and it's 12" shorter overall. Do you think that an
equatorial mount is something that will allow her (my 8-yo) to grow, or
is it going to be too complex? My other question would be to anyone
who's used one of these scopes specifically - is the tripod very
sturdy? And how high is the eyepiece above the ground?

I just don't know.... I think I'll try to find somewhere that has the
5" Orion to take a look at - it seems a logical choice since I'm
looking for something more portable. Anyways, thanks for the help so
far!

ECM

On 16 Jan 2005 22:49:29 -0800, wrote:

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I think that I was trying to get the
best of all worlds when I was considering the ETX-70AT; but I'm going
to bite the bullet and get a reflector. WHICH reflector is still up in
the air....

After I wrote this, I tracked down the Orion website to get more
detailed specs; I noticed that they have a couple of other scopes that
are quite interesting, mostly because of smaller size - the Starblast
Astro "kiddiescope" is a 4.5"; it looks like a great try at a true
young beginner's scope. I'm not sure about it though, its 450mm focal
length and F/4 - doesn't that mean that it'll be good with "low-power"
eyepieces but it won't do deep space well? It's a quite bit too short,
also - it could really use a tripod.

It's an over-marketed toy she'll quickly out grow. Lots of distorted
stars at the edge of field, and no good on higher powers (for moon and
planets.)


The other really interesting one is the SpaceProbe 130 EQ Reflector - a
5" 900mm F/6.9 - it's not much lighter than the 6" Dobsonian (30 vs.
34 lbs) but it's got an equatorial mount and an aluminum tripod that
folds for transport, and it's 12" shorter overall. Do you think that an
equatorial mount is something that will allow her (my 8-yo) to grow, or
is it going to be too complex? My other question would be to anyone
who's used one of these scopes specifically - is the tripod very
sturdy? And how high is the eyepiece above the ground?

Equatorial mounts are VERY confusing for a beginner. Stick with
alt-azimuth and dobsonians for kids.




I just don't know.... I think I'll try to find somewhere that has the
5" Orion to take a look at - it seems a logical choice since I'm
looking for something more portable. Anyways, thanks for the help so
far!

ECM


Assuming that its an actual scope-shop, not Wally-mart, ask the sales
person, (assuming they are knowledgeable). If on-line, try
http://www.astronomics.com .

Cheers,
larry g.

The other really interesting one is the SpaceProbe 130 EQ Reflector -
a
5" 900mm F/6.9 - it's not much lighter than the 6" Dobsonian (30 vs.
34 lbs) but it's got an equatorial mount and an aluminum tripod that
folds for transport, and it's 12" shorter overall. Do you think that
an
equatorial mount is something that will allow her (my 8-yo) to grow,
or
is it going to be too complex? My other question would be to anyone
who's used one of these scopes specifically - is the tripod very
sturdy? And how high is the eyepiece above the ground?

I just don't know.... I think I'll try to find somewhere that has
the
5" Orion to take a look at - it seems a logical choice since I'm
looking for something more portable. Anyways, thanks for the help so
far!

ECM

the 5" is not a good telescope. the mount was designed a 3" short tube
refractor. it will shake if your eyelash hits the eyepiece. I had
something similar. I used it a dozen times before giving up and
building my own.
the 6" dob is by far the best choice of the options you have given.
you can't do better for under a thousand dollars.
(http://www.backyardastronomy.com/pages/linksintro.html) this is a list
of most telescope manufacturers/importers. you may see something else
of interest.

Ian Anderson
www.customopticalsystems.com

ECM asked

After I wrote this, I tracked down the Orion website to get more
detailed specs; I noticed that they have a couple of other scopes
that
are quite interesting, mostly because of smaller size - the Starblast
Astro "kiddiescope" is a 4.5"; it looks like a great try at a true
young beginner's scope.

Larry G responded:

It's an over-marketed toy she'll quickly out grow. Lots of distorted
stars at the edge of field, and no good on higher powers (for moon
and
planets.)

I have to disagree with that. Last year, I bought a Starblast nominally
for my 10-year-old daughter, but at least as much for my own use. For
reference, I already owned at that point four telescopes ranging from
a 12.5-inch Dob down to a 70mm refractor. I find that the Starblast
easily holds its own in that company. In fact, the telescope has given
me some of the best deep-sky views I have ever had.

There is some truth to Larry G's complaints, but only some. Yes, the
F/4 ratio means that you need expensive eyepieces to get views that
are crisp all the way to the edge of the field. But the stars aren't
all *that* terrible at the edge even with the inexpensive eyepieces
that ship with the scope. I doubt that most beginners would even
notice. As for high-power performance, you'll definitely need to buy
a Barlow lens to use this scope; otherwise, the highest power will
give mighty small images of the planets. (Fine for the Moon, though.)
Once equipped with a Barlow, the high-power performance seems to
be limited mostly by the focuser. If I can get good focus, I can
get nice crisp views at 125X, which is hard to argue with at this
price point.

Yes, the scope really needs something to set it on. I built a 3-legged
stool out of a piece of plywood and screw-on legs purchased at my
local hardware store. For storage, I turn the stool upside down and
nestle the scope inside the legs. Works quite well.

Having said all that, a 6-inch Dob is clearly a more versatile
all-round scope. I love having a nice portable 4.5-inch scope
that sets up in 10 seconds, but that's in the context of owning
a 7-inch Dob that will give me those jaw-dropping views of Jupiter
or M13 that no 4.5-inch scope can provide. On the other hand,
a 6-inch Dob is pretty heavy for most young children to set up,
whereas the Starblast is a piece of cake.

- Tony Flanders

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

I would go with a Stargazer Steve Dob myself.



wrote in message
oups.com...
OK, I'm a rank newbie, so please be gentle. I've got a 7-year old
budding astronomer; she's been interested in getting a scope for a
couple of years.