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The rotating spaceship. Is the centrifugal force a real force?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 24th 13, 07:35 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Koobee Wublee
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Posts: 815
Default The rotating spaceship. Is the centrifugal force a real force?

On Jan 23, 11:49 am, "Paul B. Andersen" wrote:
On 23.01.2013 12:57, Alfonso wrote:


Not convinced. According to Waldron's ballistic theory photons have mass
and are therefore deflected by gravity.


Sure Newtonian gravity predicts deflection of light.
The problem (for you) is that the Newtonian prediction
for the deflection of a light beam passing the Sun is:
delta_NG = 2GM/(c^2*R)
where M is the solar mass and R is the distance of closest
approach to the Sun.

GR's prediction is:
delta_GR = 4GM/(c^2*R)


These predictions can only be so only if gravity is a real force where
a force is always pulling the photon towards the very center of the
sun. shrug

Another deflection mechanism or model is the lens effect that obeys
something similar to Snellís law. In this case, there is no force
pulling at the photon. Thus, in a gravitational lens, where the
effect of gravity is stronger in a gradient towards the center of the
sun, the inward path will be deflected according to a force. However,
the outgoing path will be un-deflected (or deflect in the other
direction behaving like antigravity if you will but not really
antigravity). The net amount in this case is not a deflection, per
say, but a shift in the observed location of the star. shrug

Several very precise measurements of the deflection
of light are now done, amongst others by the VBLA:
http://tinyurl.com/b768jbd


Measuring the deflection of light will be plagued with serious noise
issues and challenges. If the photon deflection follows Snellís law,
there is always a data point or two that can be interpreted as
deflection twice the Newtonian amount. That is if you are not looking
for an observed shift in position. shrug

The GR prediction is confirmed to a precision of 0.0003.
Newtonian gravitation miss by a factor of 2.


All these experiments that have been labeled as validations to GR
would also support light shift in position according to Snellís law.
shrug

The question is how GR bends light --- Snellís law or gravitational
law? From the geodesic equations, clearly, GR bends light through the
gravitational law. If the curvature of spacetime does not manifest an
actual force, light bending would obey Snellís law through shifting in
observed position. shrug

Once again, the self-styled physicists have shown their shallow
understanding of this simple subject, no? How do you plead, paul? If
you donít agree with Koobee Wublee, He would be delighted to spank
your ass in public again. :-)

Oh, by the way, could you publish your JAVA applet showing both twins
travel with the exact same acceleration profile? Just let the self-
styled physicists brainstorm a cure from the inconsistent results
instead of hiding them. Hiding them is not doing science any good if
you have not figured that out yet. shrug
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  #2  
Old January 25th 13, 06:26 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Koobee Wublee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default The rotating spaceship. Is the centrifugal force a real force?

On Jan 24, 10:35 am, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Jan 23, 11:49 am, "Paul B. Andersen" wrote:


Sure Newtonian gravity predicts deflection of light.
The problem (for you) is that the Newtonian prediction
for the deflection of a light beam passing the Sun is:
delta_NG = 2GM/(c^2*R)
where M is the solar mass and R is the distance of closest
approach to the Sun.


GR's prediction is:
delta_GR = 4GM/(c^2*R)


These predictions can only be so only if gravity is a real force where
a force is always pulling the photon towards the very center of the
sun. shrug

Another deflection mechanism or model is the lens effect that obeys
something similar to Snellís law. In this case, there is no force
pulling at the photon. Thus, in a gravitational lens, where the
effect of gravity is stronger in a gradient towards the center of the
sun, the inward path will be deflected according to a force. However,
the outgoing path will be un-deflected (or deflect in the other
direction behaving like antigravity if you will but not really
antigravity). The net amount in this case is not a deflection, per
say, but a shift in the observed location of the star. shrug

Several very precise measurements of the deflection
of light are now done, amongst others by the VBLA:
http://tinyurl.com/b768jbd


Measuring the deflection of light will be plagued with serious noise
issues and challenges. If the photon deflection follows Snellís law,
there is always a data point or two that can be interpreted as
deflection twice the Newtonian amount. That is if you are not looking
for an observed shift in position. shrug

The GR prediction is confirmed to a precision of 0.0003.
Newtonian gravitation miss by a factor of 2.


All these experiments that have been labeled as validations to GR
would also support light shift in position according to Snellís law.
shrug

The question is how GR bends light --- Snellís law or gravitational
law? From the geodesic equations, clearly, GR bends light through the
gravitational law. If the curvature of spacetime does not manifest an
actual force, light bending would obey Snellís law through shifting in
observed position. shrug

Once again, the self-styled physicists have shown their shallow
understanding of this simple subject, no? How do you plead, paul? If
you donít agree with Koobee Wublee, He would be delighted to spank
your ass in public again. :-)

Oh, by the way, could you publish your JAVA applet showing both twins
travel with the exact same acceleration profile? Just let the self-
styled physicists brainstorm a cure from the inconsistent results
instead of hiding them. Hiding them is not doing science any good if
you have not figured that out yet. shrug


Why is paul not corresponding?

Please agree or disagree on Koobee Wubleeís two types of photon
deflections, and please report if the accelerating twins experience
converging time flows or not. Then, you can go back to figure out how
to fudge the whole thing to continue worshipping of the crap better
known as SR and GR. shrug

Shall Koobee Wublee give you a few more days? Please advise. shrug

Why are self-styled physicists not corresponding with Koobee Wublee?
Scared to get their butts kicked? Once again, please advise. shrug


  #3  
Old January 27th 13, 05:56 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro
Koobee Wublee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default The rotating spaceship. Is the centrifugal force a real force?

On Jan 26, 3:43 pm, "Paul B. Andersen" wrote:
Koobee Wublee wrote:


Another deflection mechanism or model is the lens effect that obeys
something similar to Snellís law. In this case, there is no force
pulling at the photon. Thus, in a gravitational lens, where the
effect of gravity is stronger in a gradient towards the center of the
sun, the inward path will be deflected according to a force. However,
the outgoing path will be un-deflected (or deflect in the other
direction behaving like antigravity if you will but not really
antigravity). The net amount in this case is not a deflection, per
say, but a shift in the observed location of the star. shrug


Measuring the deflection of light will be plagued with serious noise
issues and challenges. If the photon deflection follows Snellís law,
there is always a data point or two that can be interpreted as
deflection twice the Newtonian amount. That is if you are not looking
for an observed shift in position. shrug


The question is how GR bends light --- Snellís law or gravitational
law? From the geodesic equations, clearly, GR bends light through the
gravitational law. If the curvature of spacetime does not manifest an
actual force, light bending would obey Snellís law through shifting in
observed position. shrug


Since your two types of photon deflections now have made
it clear why measurements like this:
http://tinyurl.com/b768jbd
don't confirm GR, what more is there to discuss?


Thanks, paul, for breaking the silence. Your butt must be healing
well. :-)

First of all, the paper did not address the two types of photon
deflections. It only assumed all photon deflections as force-like.
Koobee Wublee thinks because of expecting a certain model, the
interpretations tend to be biased. shrug

Please continue corresponding. May the mother of all ass spankings
would befall upon paul in the near future. shrug

Keep talking to the only person of your intellectual calibre, Koobee.
Yourself.


Yes, it is indeed very lonely at the top after spanking the asses of
all these self-styled physicists. :-)

Oh, by the way, could you publish your JAVA applet showing both twins
travel with the exact same acceleration profile? Just let the self-
styled physicists brainstorm a cure from the inconsistent results
instead of hiding them. Hiding them is not doing science any good if
you have not figured that out yet. shrug
 




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