Fred Hoyle on the Origin of Life

Jack McKinney wrote:
Is It Time To Wake Up?

If biological life did not originate by accident, how did it first
arise? Hoyle believes that life did not originate on Earth, but was
seeded here by infection from space, and that the cosmos is pregnant
with living organic material whose true origins are lost many billions
of years in the universe's misty past. Further, on noting that random
processes tend to destroy order, and intelligence shows itself most
effectively in arranging things and producing order out of chaos,
Hoyle concludes that the complexity of life indicates that the
universe itself is intelligent, and that it is this intelligence, or
hierarchy of intelligences, that first wrought the order in matter
that resulted in living things.

Not content with just these extraordinary assertions, Hoyle believes
that hierarchy of intelligences in the universe has probably
undertaken many great *experiments.* For example, he asserts that it
is unlikely that the organic life that now pervades the cosmos was
always carbon-based. He suggests that at some time in the distant
past, when the fine-tunnings that allowed carbon-based life to exist
in our present universe were different, another form of life, perhaps
silicon-based, prevailed. Hoyle believes that carbon-based life came
about when the software of intelligence that manifested in this
silicon-based hardware, our remote interstellar ancestors, perceived
that the laws of physics were slowly shifting, and that this ancient
hierarchy of intelligence quite literally *designed* the hardware or
DNA necessary to give the next great wave of life in the cosmos its
present carbon-based form. Hoyle believes that the activities of this
hierarchy of intelligence are currently indistinguishable from the
activities of nature itself.

Hoyle believes that even for our remote interstellar ancestors to have
self-organized out of the hurly-burly of matter whatever form their
hardware took would have required the existence of an organizing
principle, what Hoyle believes to be an overall gestalt of
intelligence or pure information that exists beyond time. Indeed,
Hoyle believes that the reason this overall gestalt of intelligence
has become so advanced is that it self-organizes beyond time; that it
reaches out from all points in the remote and infinite future back to
all points in the infinite past, quite literally lifting itself up by
its own bootstraps, feeding itself in the past the very information
that will allowing to become so unfathomable intelligent in the
remote future.

"Albert Tatlock" wrote in message
...
| Jack McKinney wrote:
| Is It Time To Wake Up?
|
| If biological life did not originate by accident, how did it first
| arise?

, else it did.

In hypothetical sentences introduced by 'if' and referring to
past time, where conditions are to be deemed 'unfulfilled',
the verb will regularly be found in the pluperfect subjunctive,
in both protasis and apodosis.
-- Donet, "Principles of Elementary Latin Syntax"

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:51:05 +0100, "Albert Tatlock"
wrote:

Jack McKinney wrote:
Is It Time To Wake Up?

Definitely. It's time for you to learn how RNA originated without
extraterrestrials (which just moves the question back a step) or gods.

If biological life did not originate by accident, how did it first
arise?

By chemistry.

Hoyle

was (not is) an astronomer and mathematician, not a chemist or
biologist. He was as educationally qualified to discuss the origins
of life as I am.

On May 31, 1:51*am, "Albert Tatlock" wrote:
Jack McKinney wrote:
Is It Time To Wake Up?

If biological life did not originate by accident, how did it first
arise? Hoyle believes that life did not originate on Earth, but was
seeded here by infection from space, and that the cosmos is pregnant
with living organic material whose true origins are lost many billions
of years in the universe's misty past. Further, on noting that random
processes tend to destroy order, and intelligence shows itself most
effectively in arranging things and producing order out of chaos,
Hoyle concludes that the complexity of life indicates that the
universe itself is intelligent, and that it is this intelligence, or
hierarchy of intelligences, that first wrought the order in matter
that resulted in living things.

Not content with just these extraordinary assertions, Hoyle believes
that hierarchy of intelligences in the universe has probably
undertaken many great *experiments.* For example, he asserts that it
is unlikely that the organic life that now pervades the cosmos was
always carbon-based. He suggests that at some time in the distant
past, when the fine-tunnings that allowed carbon-based life to exist
in our present universe were different, another form of life, perhaps
silicon-based, prevailed. Hoyle believes that carbon-based life came
about when the software of intelligence that manifested in this
silicon-based hardware, our remote interstellar ancestors, perceived
that the laws of physics were slowly shifting, and that this ancient
hierarchy of intelligence quite literally *designed* the hardware or
DNA necessary to give the next great wave of life in the cosmos its
present carbon-based form. Hoyle believes that the activities of this
hierarchy of intelligence are currently indistinguishable from the
activities of nature itself.

Hoyle believes that even for our remote interstellar ancestors to have
self-organized out of the hurly-burly of matter whatever form their
hardware took would have required the existence of an organizing
principle, what Hoyle believes to be an overall gestalt of
intelligence or pure information that exists beyond time. Indeed,
Hoyle believes that the reason this overall gestalt of intelligence
has become so advanced is that it self-organizes beyond time; that it
reaches out from all points in the remote and infinite future back to
all points in the infinite past, quite literally lifting itself up by
its own bootstraps, feeding itself in the past the very information
that will allowing to become so unfathomable intelligent in the
remote future.

Far out! This is more or less what I believe.

I would say it's not science though. It's metaphysics. Not that
there's anything wrong with that, just off-topic.

On the other hand, it IS potentially falsifiable. If DNA is found on
other planets that will tell us something. If not, then Hoyle was
wrong.

On Tue, 31 May 2011 04:14:29 -0700 (PDT), Frisbieinstein
wrote:

On the other hand, it IS potentially falsifiable. If DNA is found on
other planets that will tell us something.

It could be telling us that life originated on other planets too, and
that DNA is kind of the default - that if life develops it develops as
RNA, and that develops DNA.

If not, then Hoyle was wrong.

"If not" would require that we scour every cubic micron of every
planet in the universe, something that would probably take longer than
the entire life of the universe.
--
"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings." -
Victor Stenger.

On May 30, 10:51*am, "Albert Tatlock" wrote:
Jack McKinney wrote:
Is It Time To Wake Up?

If biological life did not originate by accident, how did it first
arise? Hoyle believes that life did not originate on Earth, but was
seeded here by infection from space, and that the cosmos is pregnant
with living organic material whose true origins are lost many billions
of years in the universe's misty past. Further, on noting that random
processes tend to destroy order, and intelligence shows itself most
effectively in arranging things and producing order out of chaos,
Hoyle concludes that the complexity of life indicates that the
universe itself is intelligent, and that it is this intelligence, or
hierarchy of intelligences, that first wrought the order in matter
that resulted in living things.

Not content with just these extraordinary assertions, Hoyle believes
that hierarchy of intelligences in the universe has probably
undertaken many great *experiments.* For example, he asserts that it
is unlikely that the organic life that now pervades the cosmos was
always carbon-based. He suggests that at some time in the distant
past, when the fine-tunnings that allowed carbon-based life to exist
in our present universe were different, another form of life, perhaps
silicon-based, prevailed. Hoyle believes that carbon-based life came
about when the software of intelligence that manifested in this
silicon-based hardware, our remote interstellar ancestors, perceived
that the laws of physics were slowly shifting, and that this ancient
hierarchy of intelligence quite literally *designed* the hardware or
DNA necessary to give the next great wave of life in the cosmos its
present carbon-based form. Hoyle believes that the activities of this
hierarchy of intelligence are currently indistinguishable from the
activities of nature itself.

Hoyle believes that even for our remote interstellar ancestors to have
self-organized out of the hurly-burly of matter whatever form their
hardware took would have required the existence of an organizing
principle, what Hoyle believes to be an overall gestalt of
intelligence or pure information that exists beyond time. Indeed,
Hoyle believes that the reason this overall gestalt of intelligence
has become so advanced is that it self-organizes beyond time; that it
reaches out from all points in the remote and infinite future back to
all points in the infinite past, quite literally lifting itself up by
its own bootstraps, feeding itself in the past the very information
that will allowing to become so unfathomable intelligent in the
remote future.

For the past half century, we've had the capability of deploying
directed panspermia towards other planets and moons.

So where's the great insurmountable problem of getting complex life to
other places besides Earth?

A much faster probe and interstellar distances become technically
directed panspermia doable.

We know that icy enclosed or otherwise cryogenic sequestered life can
last near indefinitely. So why not seed the accessible galaxy with
our best work?

http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Jun 1, 5:39*am, Brad Guth wrote:
On May 30, 10:51*am, "Albert Tatlock" wrote:









Jack McKinney wrote:
Is It Time To Wake Up?

If biological life did not originate by accident, how did it first
arise? Hoyle believes that life did not originate on Earth, but was
seeded here by infection from space, and that the cosmos is pregnant
with living organic material whose true origins are lost many billions
of years in the universe's misty past. Further, on noting that random
processes tend to destroy order, and intelligence shows itself most
effectively in arranging things and producing order out of chaos,
Hoyle concludes that the complexity of life indicates that the
universe itself is intelligent, and that it is this intelligence, or
hierarchy of intelligences, that first wrought the order in matter
that resulted in living things.

Not content with just these extraordinary assertions, Hoyle believes
that hierarchy of intelligences in the universe has probably
undertaken many great *experiments.* For example, he asserts that it
is unlikely that the organic life that now pervades the cosmos was
always carbon-based. He suggests that at some time in the distant
past, when the fine-tunnings that allowed carbon-based life to exist
in our present universe were different, another form of life, perhaps
silicon-based, prevailed. Hoyle believes that carbon-based life came
about when the software of intelligence that manifested in this
silicon-based hardware, our remote interstellar ancestors, perceived
that the laws of physics were slowly shifting, and that this ancient
hierarchy of intelligence quite literally *designed* the hardware or
DNA necessary to give the next great wave of life in the cosmos its
present carbon-based form. Hoyle believes that the activities of this
hierarchy of intelligence are currently indistinguishable from the
activities of nature itself.

Hoyle believes that even for our remote interstellar ancestors to have
self-organized out of the hurly-burly of matter whatever form their
hardware took would have required the existence of an organizing
principle, what Hoyle believes to be an overall gestalt of
intelligence or pure information that exists beyond time. Indeed,
Hoyle believes that the reason this overall gestalt of intelligence
has become so advanced is that it self-organizes beyond time; that it
reaches out from all points in the remote and infinite future back to
all points in the infinite past, quite literally lifting itself up by
its own bootstraps, feeding itself in the past the very information
that will allowing to become so unfathomable intelligent in the
remote future.

For the past half century, we've had the capability of deploying
directed panspermia towards other planets and moons.

So where's the great insurmountable problem of getting complex life to
other places besides Earth?

A much faster probe and interstellar distances become technically
directed panspermia doable.

We know that icy enclosed or otherwise cryogenic sequestered life can
last near indefinitely. *So why not seed the accessible galaxy with
our best work?

*http://translate.google.com/#
*Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

OK, no big problem in spreading DNA intentionally this way. But it is
just "kicking the can down the road." It doesn't answer the real
question, which is how did all this get started? IMO at this time
the answer is beyond the reach of science.

On Jun 1, 5:26*am, Colanth wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 04:14:29 -0700 (PDT), Frisbieinstein

wrote:
On the other hand, it IS potentially falsifiable. * If DNA is found on
other planets that will tell us something.

It could be telling us that life originated on other planets too, and
that DNA is kind of the default - that if life develops it develops as
RNA, and that develops DNA.

That's true, but I would take a lot of convincing to believe that life
can evolve in only exactly one way. I don't know how you would go
about demonstrating that.


If not, then Hoyle was wrong.

"If not" would require that we scour every cubic micron of every
planet in the universe, something that would probably take longer than
the entire life of the universe.

Oh, if one hundred likely planets were investigated and showed no DNA-
based life that would be good enough for me :-).
--
"Science flies you to the moon. Religion flies you into buildings." -
Victor Stenger.

On Tue, 31 May 2011 18:53:59 -0700 (PDT), Patrick Powers
wrote:

On Jun 1, 5:26*am, Colanth wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 04:14:29 -0700 (PDT), Frisbieinstein

wrote:
On the other hand, it IS potentially falsifiable. * If DNA is found on
other planets that will tell us something.

It could be telling us that life originated on other planets too, and
that DNA is kind of the default - that if life develops it develops as
RNA, and that develops DNA.

That's true, but I would take a lot of convincing to believe that life
can evolve in only exactly one way. I don't know how you would go
about demonstrating that.

I wouldn't even try. Even assuming that in the next 100 years we find
life on 3 other planets, and it's all DNA based, that's not even
0.0000001% of the planets it could be on. A sample that size is
meaningless. By the time we've examined enough planets to have a
meaningful sample size, we will have evolved into something other than
human.

If not, then Hoyle was wrong.

"If not" would require that we scour every cubic micron of every
planet in the universe, something that would probably take longer than
the entire life of the universe.

Oh, if one hundred likely planets were investigated and showed no DNA-
based life that would be good enough for me :-).

But not for science.
--
"Thirteen governments thus founded on the natural authority of the
people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are
destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the
globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind." -
John Adams