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Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?



 
 
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  #71  
Old September 16th 18, 04:22 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Posts: 659
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 7:38:33 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 09:53:03 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 9:15:34 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 06:11:53 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

No, it's rigorously defined. It means accepting as true that
which is not supported by evidence. In many cases (for instance
most religion) it means accepting as true that which is
contradicted by evidence.

Ignoring evidence is practiced in both religion AND science. As
P. Pilate said, "What is truth?"

No, it is NEVER ignored by science.


NEVER? You are sounding like an absolutist. :-)

Sure, by individual scientists, who are fallible and never operate
with perfect reason.


Sometimes by the whole scientific community. But you are right because
it tends to be self-correcting.


Never.


Are you saying it NEVER self-corrects? :-)

But by science itself? Never. Which is why science never fails to lead
us closer to truth (and in so doing, isolates more and more religious
dogma as objectively false).


And that's a good thing since "dogma" is a creation of man, not of God.


Of course, since there is no reason to believe in a god. It's an
absurd belief for anybody living in our times. A belief that removes a
person from credibility.


I've given an excellent reason why God must exist.
Consider 10^18 planets in the visible universe (never mind those in the
parts we cannot see), consider 1% of those being earth-like, consider
0.0001% of those having developed civilizations billions of years ago,
that still leaves 10^10 civilizations out there. All that is needed is
ONE of them to reach this point:

“There may be millions of inhabited worlds circling other suns, harboring
beings who to us would seem godlike, with civilizations and cultures
beyond our wildest dreams.” -- Arthur C. Clarke

You are betting on the VERY short end of tremendous odds.

And you yourself have expressed "faith-based thinking." You believe
(without evidence) that all alien civilizations destroy themselves
before they can become god-like. Remember? :-)

I don't "believe" this. I offer it as a plausible hypothesis to answer
the Fermi paradox, based on observation of human behavior. That's all..


And why would "human behavior apply to aliens?


It may not. But we can observe the things that allowed us to become a
technological species, including our tribalism, which is currently at
the core of our potential extinction, and recognize that this could be
characteristic of most species that follow our path. Again, a
hypothesis only needs to be plausible.


But it becomes irrelevant when a MUCH more plausible hypothesis is
available.

As this "ONE" advanced civilization developed a few billion years ago,
they would have reached technological, sociological and ethical levels
that would prevent them from destructively interfering with developing
civilizations, but would still be constrained to guide them on an upward
path. Why would they do it in the form of religion? As ersatz dad in
"Contact" said, "This is the way it's been done for billions of years."

In the same vein as you said, I don't necessarily believe this particular
scenario, but it IS plausible, and MUCH more plausible than believing
that there is No One out there.
  #72  
Old September 16th 18, 05:17 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:22:50 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

I've given an excellent reason why God must exist.


Ha, ha, ha!

So pathetic. A human who lacks what it takes to be human. The ability
to think.
  #73  
Old September 16th 18, 05:33 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Ninapenda Jibini
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Posts: 31
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

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--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.
  #74  
Old September 16th 18, 01:15 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Posts: 659
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 10:17:46 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:22:50 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

I've given an excellent reason why God must exist.


Ha, ha, ha!

So pathetic. A human who lacks what it takes to be human. The ability
to think.


I thought, you didn't. You just repeated slurs and personal attacks
because you know that you lost the discussion, and you just can't stand
to lose so you resort to dishonesty. Such childish behavior is what is
REALLY pathetic.
  #75  
Old September 16th 18, 03:39 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 05:15:08 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 10:17:46 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:22:50 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

I've given an excellent reason why God must exist.


Ha, ha, ha!

So pathetic. A human who lacks what it takes to be human. The ability
to think.


I thought, you didn't. You just repeated slurs and personal attacks
because you know that you lost the discussion, and you just can't stand
to lose so you resort to dishonesty. Such childish behavior is what is
REALLY pathetic.


The fact that you see an accurate assessment of your thinking (you
believe in the supernatural!) as an attack means you recognize the
idiocy of it, and just won't admit it to yourself.
  #76  
Old September 16th 18, 04:19 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

This business of 'supernatural' as opposed to natural is meant to diminish inspirational/spiritual at the core of Christ and Christianity. Most certainly people understand existence greater than themselves at their own level but to a greater degree it is intimacy of experience as love and inspiration that informs the intellect. The hapless try to reason faith out or indeed believe that faith is blind convictions however,in a Christian sense, the closest thing as Christian can believe through the intellect is that all that is good wins out against evil and mediocrity -


"But these things are not to be disclosed to the uninitiated, by whom I mean those attached to the objects of human thought, and who believe there is no superessential Reality beyond, and who imagine that by their own understanding they know it that has made Darkness Its secret place. And if the principles of the divine Mysteries are beyond the understanding of these, what is to be said of others still more incapable thereof, who describe the transcendental First Cause of all by characteristics drawn from the lowest order of beings, while they deny that it is in any way above the images which they fashion after various designs; whereas they should affirm that, while it possesses all the positive attributes of the universe (being the Universal Cause) yet, in a more strict sense, it does not possess them, since it transcends them all; wherefore there is no contradiction between the affirmations and the negations, inasmuch as it infinitely precedes all conceptions of deprivation, being beyond all positive and negative distinctions" Dionysius the Areopagite


These guys strutting around like peacocks making pseudo-authoritative declarations look silly yet unfortunately this era is plagued with them although the notions which they once sold look stale and garbled that they no longer hold the attention of the wider population.
  #77  
Old September 16th 18, 06:14 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Posts: 659
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sunday, September 16, 2018 at 8:39:53 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 05:15:08 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 10:17:46 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:22:50 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

I've given an excellent reason why God must exist.

Ha, ha, ha!

So pathetic. A human who lacks what it takes to be human. The ability
to think.


I thought, you didn't. You just repeated slurs and personal attacks
because you know that you lost the discussion, and you just can't stand
to lose so you resort to dishonesty. Such childish behavior is what is
REALLY pathetic.


The fact that you see an accurate assessment of your thinking (you
believe in the supernatural!) as an attack means you recognize the
idiocy of it, and just won't admit it to yourself.


So you believe civilizations existing on other planets is "supernatural"?
You believe anyone who accepts that possibility is less than human and
can't think? I knew you had some lunatic perceptions, but you really
outdid yourself!
  #78  
Old September 16th 18, 06:51 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

So you believe civilizations existing on other planets is "supernatural"?


Say what?

You believe anyone who accepts that possibility is less than human and
can't think?


Say what?

We're talking about gods, not other civilizations.
  #79  
Old September 16th 18, 09:18 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
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Posts: 659
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Sunday, September 16, 2018 at 11:51:23 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 10:14:02 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

So you believe civilizations existing on other planets is
"supernatural"?


Say what?

You believe anyone who accepts that possibility is less than human and
can't think?


Say what?

We're talking about gods, not other civilizations.


Apparently, your bigotry has you so blinded that you can't even parse
a sentence.
  #80  
Old September 17th 18, 05:10 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

On Saturday, September 15, 2018 at 9:22:52 PM UTC-6, Gary Harnagel wrote:

I've given an excellent reason why God must exist.
Consider 10^18 planets in the visible universe (never mind those in the
parts we cannot see), consider 1% of those being earth-like, consider
0.0001% of those having developed civilizations billions of years ago,
that still leaves 10^10 civilizations out there. All that is needed is
ONE of them to reach this point:


“There may be millions of inhabited worlds circling other suns, harboring
beings who to us would seem godlike, with civilizations and cultures
beyond our wildest dreams.” -- Arthur C. Clarke


What does that have to do with God?

Those would simply be finite mortal beings like us, just more advanced. Compared
to God, they would still be less than ants, even as we would be.

By definition:

There is only one God.

He is utterly and absolutely omniscient and omnipotent.

He has always existed and shall exist eternally.

Advanced aliens who are seemingly godlike do not measure up.

John Savard
 




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