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Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 26th 15, 03:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

The following news item

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0625145232.htm

concerns the KaiC protein, which encodes the 24 hour length of the day, thus
facilitating the circadian rhythm.

Unfortunately, they referred to the length of the day as "Earth's daily rotation
period", which will only serve to prolong the confusion exemplified by a
participant in this newsgroup.

John Savard
  #2  
Old June 26th 15, 04:57 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_2_]
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

On Friday, 26 June 2015 16:55:02 UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:
The following news item

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0625145232.htm

concerns the KaiC protein, which encodes the 24 hour length of the day, thus
facilitating the circadian rhythm.

Unfortunately, they referred to the length of the day as "Earth's daily rotation
period", which will only serve to prolong the confusion exemplified by a
participant in this newsgroup.

John Savard


Research where participants are denied visual stimulus for daylight hours often show very wayward timekeeping over extended periods.

Dare one suggest that the educationally-challenged miscreant, to whom you may be referring, may actually be a cough caveman?
  #3  
Old June 26th 15, 05:28 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

On Fri, 26 Jun 2015 08:57:45 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:

Research where participants are denied visual stimulus for daylight hours often show very wayward timekeeping over extended periods.

Dare one suggest that the educationally-challenged miscreant, to whom you may be referring, may actually be a cough caveman?


Well, since KaiC is locked into solar time, and has a deterministic
behavior, I was thinking that the referred to miscreant was simply a
protein.
  #4  
Old June 26th 15, 09:13 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

Quadibloc:

Unfortunately, they referred to the length of the day as "Earth's daily
rotation period", which will only serve to prolong the confusion exemplified by a
participant in this newsgroup.


I don't think that referring to the length of the day as 24 hours is a
grave or important error. It is, after all, the statutory length of the
day in civil time, which is the standard I use to set my wris****ch and
the standard that my favorite airline uses. The average resident of
planet Earth has a very good knowledge of the length of the day that
serves for all practical purposes.

What is mystifying to me is your obsession with whoever it is in this
group you disagree with. You have spent years taking that person's bait
and trying to set that person straight, all to no avail. How do you
know that that person believes what he says, and is not just playing
you for a slavering dog?

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #5  
Old June 26th 15, 10:22 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

On Friday, June 26, 2015 at 2:13:27 PM UTC-6, Davoud wrote:
Quadibloc:

Unfortunately, they referred to the length of the day as "Earth's daily
rotation period", which will only serve to prolong the confusion exemplified by a
participant in this newsgroup.


I don't think that referring to the length of the day as 24 hours is a
grave or important error.


I quite agree. The length of the day _is_ 24 hours... because, as you say:

It is, after all, the statutory length of the
day in civil time, which is the standard I use to set my wris****ch and
the standard that my favorite airline uses. The average resident of
planet Earth has a very good knowledge of the length of the day that
serves for all practical purposes.


But it was referred to as the "Earth's daily rotation period", and the Earth
does not have a rotational motion with that period. That's why I felt it was
giving aid and comfort to this fellow.

What is mystifying to me is your obsession with whoever it is in this
group you disagree with. You have spent years taking that person's bait
and trying to set that person straight, all to no avail. How do you
know that that person believes what he says, and is not just playing
you for a slavering dog?


Oh, I suppose he may be a troll, although he certainly seems to be a genuine
eccentric.

I think that _some_ of the time, though, past debates with him have clarified
important but little-known facts about astronomy. Of late, I have been replying
to him rather less often, though.

John Savard
  #6  
Old June 27th 15, 12:43 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

Davoud:
I don't think that referring to the length of the day as 24 hours is a
grave or important error.


Quadibloc:
I quite agree. The length of the day _is_ 24 hours... because, as you say:

It is, after all, the statutory length of the
day in civil time, which is the standard I use to set my wris****ch and
the standard that my favorite airline uses. The average resident of
planet Earth has a very good knowledge of the length of the day that
serves for all practical purposes.


But it was referred to as the "Earth's daily rotation period", and the Earth
does not have a rotational motion with that period. That's why I felt it was
giving aid and comfort to this fellow.


Again, I don't see that the various astronomical definitions of the
Earth's daily rotation period (which is chaotic due to climate, tides,
lunar gravity, and what-not) are in any way meaningful in every-day
life. Astronomers seem to have an adequate grip on this, my mount and
its control software "understand" it well enough, and I just don't
think it is at all important to the overwhelming majority of the human
population.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #7  
Old June 27th 15, 03:18 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
RichA[_6_]
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Posts: 1,076
Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

On Friday, 26 June 2015 11:57:46 UTC-4, Chris.B wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2015 16:55:02 UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:
The following news item

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0625145232.htm

concerns the KaiC protein, which encodes the 24 hour length of the day, thus
facilitating the circadian rhythm.

Unfortunately, they referred to the length of the day as "Earth's daily rotation
period", which will only serve to prolong the confusion exemplified by a
participant in this newsgroup.

John Savard


Research where participants are denied visual stimulus for daylight hours often show very wayward timekeeping over extended periods.

Dare one suggest that the educationally-challenged miscreant, to whom you may be referring, may actually be a cough caveman?


Tests done in the 40's showed that humans can't adapt to a non-24hour day once they reach a certain age. Younger people are able to adapt to a different day length.
  #8  
Old June 27th 15, 06:51 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

RichA wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2015 11:57:46 UTC-4, Chris.B wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2015 16:55:02 UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:
The following news item

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0625145232.htm

concerns the KaiC protein, which encodes the 24 hour length of the day, thus
facilitating the circadian rhythm.

Unfortunately, they referred to the length of the day as "Earth's daily rotation
period", which will only serve to prolong the confusion exemplified by a
participant in this newsgroup.

John Savard


Research where participants are denied visual stimulus for daylight
hours often show very wayward timekeeping over extended periods.

Dare one suggest that the educationally-challenged miscreant, to whom
you may be referring, may actually be a cough caveman?


Tests done in the 40's showed that humans can't adapt to a non-24hour day
once they reach a certain age. Younger people are able to adapt to a different day length.


The 1940's - that was long before the effects of bright light on melatonin
was known. Free running humans not exposed to a day-night cycle tend to
synchronise at a longer day length than 24 hours. Synchronisation to a 24
hour day depends on daily exposure to bright light and can be changed just
by selectively altering the exposure to light. This is true even for blind
people.
As for older people I worked on call and shifts until I was over 50 and had
less trouble with changing day lengths than some younger people who had
less experience of this.
If you read Frederic Pohl's autobiography you will find that he
experimented with 48 hour days and was quite comfortable with this.
  #9  
Old June 30th 15, 11:50 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown
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Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

On 27/06/2015 18:51, Mike Collins wrote:
RichA wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2015 11:57:46 UTC-4, Chris.B wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2015 16:55:02 UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:
The following news item

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0625145232.htm

concerns the KaiC protein, which encodes the 24 hour length of the day, thus
facilitating the circadian rhythm.

Unfortunately, they referred to the length of the day as "Earth's daily rotation
period", which will only serve to prolong the confusion exemplified by a
participant in this newsgroup.


It is the Earth's nominal daily rotation period with respect to the sun
which is the major source of sunlight. Individual stars aren't going to
provoke any kind of response for Kaic or melatonin.

John Savard

Research where participants are denied visual stimulus for daylight
hours often show very wayward timekeeping over extended periods.

Dare one suggest that the educationally-challenged miscreant, to whom
you may be referring, may actually be a cough caveman?


Tests done in the 40's showed that humans can't adapt to a non-24hour day
once they reach a certain age. Younger people are able to adapt to a different day length.


The 1940's - that was long before the effects of bright light on melatonin
was known. Free running humans not exposed to a day-night cycle tend to
synchronise at a longer day length than 24 hours. Synchronisation to a 24
hour day depends on daily exposure to bright light and can be changed just
by selectively altering the exposure to light. This is true even for blind
people.


Indeed the trick to avoiding jetlag is to manage your exposure to
daylight in the new timezone, eat well and go to bed slightly early.
Only really a problem on westward intercontinental flights.

Falling asleep in the afternoon makes it extremely difficult to sync.

As for older people I worked on call and shifts until I was over 50 and had
less trouble with changing day lengths than some younger people who had
less experience of this.


Probably because the youngsters were more sleep deprived.

If you read Frederic Pohl's autobiography you will find that he
experimented with 48 hour days and was quite comfortable with this.

Anything longer without sleep and you can spontaneously microsleep
without being aware of it - dangerous if driving. A friend working on
railway signalling fell foul of this on her way home. Another at the AAT
was woken up by shaking and found herself driving parallel to the dirt
road. Luckily neither were seriously injured.

In a given timezone around 4am and 4pm are the danger times.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #10  
Old July 3rd 15, 02:32 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Unfortunate Typographical Error in Science News Story

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 4:50:35 AM UTC-6, Martin Brown wrote:

It is the Earth's nominal daily rotation period with respect to the sun
which is the major source of sunlight. Individual stars aren't going to
provoke any kind of response for Kaic or melatonin.


Absolutely - the length of the day, not the "sidereal day", is what is
important to life.

But "rotation" is a _motion_. Something that slows down and speeds up, without
any force being applied to the Earth to cause it, is a compound motion, the
resultant of the Earth's rotation and the Earth's orbit.

The day is 24 hours long, and the Earth rotates in 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4
seconds. These two facts don't contradict each other at all, which is what
Oriel fails to realize.

John Savard
 




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