A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » History
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Obama's HUGE space gamble



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old February 6th 10, 02:56 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!

Dean wrote:
So what? A lot of military developed equipment has useful civilian
applications. I drive a HUMMER...and then there's GPS...


Don't forget the MRE's

And for what its worth, the Saturn boosters were not military in
origin.


Actually, they were somewhat military in origin; Saturn I was going to
be used for the Army's Project Horizon, a plan to build a military Moon
base: http://www.astronautix.com/articles/prorizon.htm
....and the US Air Force started the F-1 engine project that ended up
being used on the Saturn V's first stage. They couldn't think of
anything to do with it, so NASA took over the program:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-1_%28rocket_engine%29
Air force funding also played a role in the development of the RL-10 and
J-2 LOX/LH2 engines, which were intended to be used for _their_ Moon
base program, Project Lunex:
http://www.friends-partners.org/part...cles/lunex.htm

Pat

  #22  
Old February 6th 10, 03:08 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
Matt Wiser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 575
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!

On Feb 5, 8:20*am, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
The question is not whether we explore or not - we always will.

The question is when.

What's the rush? After all, it is not like the moon and Mars are going
anywhere. Last time I checked, they have no plans to relocate or
disappear.

-Ramon



The sooner the better. Especially for those who weren't around for
Apollo or were just too young.
  #23  
Old February 6th 10, 03:14 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
Pat Flannery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,465
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!

Bob Myers wrote:

Oh, good; I fondly remember the 1951 original, although it
certainly wasn't up to the level of, say, the original
"The Day The Earth Stood Still." But I'll be looking
forward to this remake.


I'm keen to see how they explain Alpha Centauri heading our way at a
speed that would get it here within any reasonable timeframe.
(Sign at the Ark construction site: "Only 296,734,538 days to Alpha
Centauri! Waste anything but time!")
Do you think it would be in poor taste to show up at the premiere in a
wheel chair and start yelling at the audience that you are richer than
all of them put together and you hope they all get burned to death when
Earth is destroyed, for there is no room for the filthy poor on the new
planet?

Pat
  #24  
Old February 6th 10, 04:56 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,516
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!

We shouldn't have to keep throwing
away all of our current launch vehicle assets every time a new mission is
proposed. �Saturn V was a dead end. �

Jeff
--



Saturn shouldnt of been a dead end.

Shuttle could of used saturn as LFBB.

Which would of left the saturn infrastructure for heavy
lifting.........
  #25  
Old February 6th 10, 07:17 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Michael Gallagher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 232
Default Obama's HUGE space gamble

On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 14:06:53 -0800 (PST), Eric Chomko
wrote:

Comparing Cameron to Obama is a stretch.


As far as the magnitude of the risk goes, yes.

....Unless you think Constellation was poorly designed in the first place.


Which comes around to my point: Outside the aerospace and space
enthusiast communities, who even debated the point? Probably nobody.
The lead sentences of the story were about the cancellations, not a
celebration of a "better choice." You can't get past that just by
arguing on usenet.

.... Where's the Augustine commission's heavy lifter going to fly from
without them?


Wallops Island?


They have LC39-sized pads I never hear of?

.... You sound bitter ....


I don't feel bitter.

..... What do you really want, if you allow yourself to
push your party agenda aside for a minute?


No party agenda involved. As for what I want, I thought Constellation
had the best shot of getting astronauts back to the Moon and on to
Mars. That program is now dead, so I want to see what happens. But
something HAS to happen, or it's a misstep for Obama.


If Obama's space plan isn't a hit, it will be a flop, and he'll
probably spend the rest of his life explaining it.


There is no middle ground? ....


Not for Obama. The messianic image that grew around him during the
2008 campaign set him up for trouble. Even in good times, he never
would have lived up to it; anything less than being awesome and his
adminstration could be considered a flop, even if he's competent a the
job (which I believe he is). Well, it wasn't the best of times, and
he elected right in the middle of a finacial meltdown and charged with
fixing the whole world. Along the way, we learned he's only human.
He and the dems have major political problems, no question. Can he
get around them? Maybe, but a gamble that doesn't play out hon't
help, regardkess of whether it directly hurts his reelection chances.

...... Anything is better than the Bush plan was.


That remains to be seen. What matters is when the rubber meets the
road.

  #26  
Old February 7th 10, 01:40 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 611
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!


"Val Kraut" wrote in message
...

"
Thank God for the 'new' era. It cannot help but be better than
the last one...now!



to paraphrase LBJ - only if you wish to go to sleep to the light of a
Chinese Moon.


At a fifth of the world population, it's only a matter of time.
But I rest easy at night knowing that the only way for the
Chinese to overtake us for any length of time is if they
become a free market democracy.






  #27  
Old February 7th 10, 01:56 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 611
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
om...
Well, I'm not optimistic. This sounds almost as romantic as a science
fiction story to me.

The one salient fact about humans is there is no real reason to go out
there and explore. Nobody seems to know why we want to do it. Because its
there, as many say about mountains, but I think, much like the so called
arts, exploration is something humans need to do. I don't know why, and if
its all boiled down to money then nobody would invent anything unless it
was salable.



I think there's plenty of reasons to explore the solar system, but I'm
impatient. I know that if you put a human explorer and robotic one
side by side the human wins hands down. But that isn't worth the
extra time. Robots get there much faster and cheaper, and their
abilities are ...good enough given the rapid march of electronics.


So, lets just say, we have evolved in the way we have, and are still doing
so. For whatever reason, we have succeeded by going to new places. We have
no idea if the strategy is still useful when applied to off planet, but at
the very least, lets remove the bean counting aspect and go do it.


I agree, it needs to be the world which does it. We really do not want to
create the divisive borders and territories we have here on earth again.
Maybe this is the reason we are driven, is it to get away from it all, or
to cooperate in a new society?

One thing to me is certain though. We need a better less energy wasteful
and dangerous way to get off planet. Maybe the physicists can actually
find the source of gravity and let us harness the force instead of
fighting it.



They have, it's called lift! Lift can get a ship out of the bulk of the
atmosphere anyways. I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of
air dropped launching ends up being the cheapest and easiet way.



Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

President Obama ends NASA's Moon missions.
Leaving the US manned space program in limbo.

I believe this decision signals the end of an significant
fifty year long era in space policy.

Unfortunately, the notion this Space-Era was about exploring, or
colonizing or various forms of pure research are the result
of looking at the US Space Program through nebula-colored glasses.
The 'Hank-ian' view, as in Tom.

Grow up please!

The manned space program is, and always has been, a military oriented
program. The civilian cover stories of the early rocket days became
institutionalized.

The finish line in the cold-war race with the Soviets was unabashedly
on the Moon. And it would be again, but this time a missile defense
race to the Moon with the Chinese. This decision brings hope that the
next fifty years will NOT be defined by the incredibly wasteful and
dangerous military spending spree between the two richest nations
of the world. A cold-war that helped generate a world full of
negative-sum games, or one ..horror.. after another.

Now we have an opportunity to not just change the focus of space policy.
But to entirely change the nature of superpower competition.
From military to economic, to positive-sum games.

The difference between positive and negative sum interactions
between the superpowers is nothing less that the difference
between ....Barbaric and Civilized.

Thank God this era is over!

Our space policy now has the opportunity to turn itself towards the
needs of the many, instead of the military. Such as creating a new
energy future.

Thank God for the 'new' era. It cannot help but be better than
the last one...now!


Jonathan


s







  #28  
Old February 7th 10, 02:05 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 611
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!


"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

"Jonathan" wrote in message
...

The manned space program is, and always has been, a military oriented
program. The civilian cover stories of the early rocket days became
institutionalized.


This is absolutely false.



Oh come on, both the US and China have at times used H3
as their 'cover stories' just recently for going to the Moon.
You can't see through the propaganda? NASA has floated
just about every reason it can think of to justify the
Moon, they were all attempts at cover stories, civilian
justifications for a military project.

Anytime a reason for doing something is created /after the fact/
it's a false story. Why not just tell us the original reason they used
before the project began? Either they had a different reason
for going to the Moon, or none at all, which is worse?


Jonathan

s





Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon



  #29  
Old February 7th 10, 02:39 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
Jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!


President Obama ends NASA's Moon missions.
Leaving the US manned space program in limbo.

I believe this decision signals the end of an significant
fifty year long era in space policy.

Unfortunately, the notion this Space-Era was about exploring, or
colonizing or various forms of pure research are the result
of looking at the US Space Program through nebula-colored glasses.
The 'Hank-ian' view, as in Tom.

Grow up please!

The manned space program is, and always has been, a military oriented
program. The civilian cover stories of the early rocket days became
institutionalized.

The finish line in the cold-war race with the Soviets was unabashedly
on the Moon. And it would be again, but this time a missile defense
race to the Moon with the Chinese. This decision brings hope that the
next fifty years will NOT be defined by the incredibly wasteful and
dangerous military spending spree between the two richest nations
of the world. A cold-war that helped generate a world full of
negative-sum games, or one ..horror.. after another.

Now we have an opportunity to not just change the focus of space policy.
But to entirely change the nature of superpower competition.
From military to economic, to positive-sum games.

The difference between positive and negative sum interactions
between the superpowers is nothing less that the difference
between ....Barbaric and Civilized.

Thank God this era is over!

Our space policy now has the opportunity to turn itself towards the
needs of the many, instead of the military. Such as creating a new
energy future.

Thank God for the 'new' era. It cannot help but be better than
the last one...now!


Jonathan


s



  #30  
Old February 7th 10, 02:53 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,alt.politics,sci.space.shuttle
Graystar[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default NASA's long-running 'Cover Story' Comes to an End!


"Jonathan" wrote in message

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message

"Jonathan" wrote in message

The manned space program is, and always has been, a military oriented
program. The civilian cover stories of the early rocket days became
institutionalized.


This is absolutely false.



Oh come on, both the US and China have at times used H3
as their 'cover stories' just recently for going to the Moon.
You can't see through the propaganda? NASA has floated
just about every reason it can think of to justify the
Moon, they were all attempts at cover stories, civilian
justifications for a military project.

Anytime a reason for doing something is created /after the fact/
it's a false story. Why not just tell us the original reason they used
before the project began? Either they had a different reason
for going to the Moon, or none at all, which is worse?


Jonathan

s


and as Sun Tsu states "all war is deception".
To ignore that obvious truth is to invite war.

I have no problem with inclusion to allay a countries fears.
Just don't send narrow minded politicos who scare easily and have no
expertise.
Well... maybe a painter or a poet or a musician... but only one! and fully
vetted!
grin

Graystar
--
Conformity
When people are free to do as they please,
they usually imitate each other.
This is commonly known as Crayfish behavior.

Jeff
--
"Take heart amid the deepening gloom
that your dog is finally getting enough cheese" - Deteriorata - National
Lampoon




http://www.USENETHOST.com 100% Uncensored , 100% Anonymous, 5$/month Only!
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Obama's Space Policy LauraM Policy 147 July 23rd 11 11:47 PM
Barack Obama's Sense of Drift on Space Policy Mark R. Whittington Policy 11 March 18th 09 05:25 PM
Barack Obama's Real Space Omission Quadibloc Policy 85 June 14th 08 09:18 AM
huge cock big dicks,riding huge dick,free huge dick video [email protected] Amateur Astronomy 0 March 13th 08 07:40 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.