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Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 30th 15, 08:24 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_2_]
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Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

On Thursday, 30 July 2015 04:54:50 UTC+2, RichA wrote:

This study is like one done in Sweden about 10 years ago. Same conclusions.


Much [petty] crime is driven by economic inequality. When personal greed can turn personal advantage to great wealth it is seen as good. They have become farmers of wealth. When the poor are denied all access to wealth they have *only* crime to fulfil their immediate needs and greeds. They have returned to an earlier mode of survival and must become hunter-gatherers.

Better surely, for all, that the majority may access the many advantages of a healthy and wealthy society? When wealth is so far away from the daily experience that it seems unattainable then society has no obvious goals to greater wealth. When all share, to some degree in that wealth, then wealth seems more easily attainable and crime drops. There is much greater opportunity for all because many more small entrepreneurs will thrive and employ many, many others.

Billionaires cause unemployment and a society riddled with crime and poverty. The middle classes support a healthy and wealthy society to the great advantage of all. The middle classes and all their many workers all pay taxes.. Society now has the funds to set it sights on great projects to inspire all. The billionaire pays no taxes and employs nobody except lawyers, money launderers and brokers.

Billionaires could never have sent Man to the Moon. A wealthy society of working taxpayers did that. Poverty and inequality are crimes against humanity's progress to the stars.

A billion consumers have a hundred billion immediate needs and the means to pay for them. A billion poor need a hundred million policemen to control them and cannot afford anything. Policemen are not renowned for their high pay so cannot afford very much. A billionaire needs only himself and somewhere to safely hide the proceeds from his petty greed.

A poor man is not even a potential customer for our widgets and widget polishing services. Now imagine an Africa or India or Asia full to the brim with tax-paying consumers. Now we have several hundred thousand billion immediate needs and wants and greeds and their ready means to pay for them. Doesn't leaving those billions of people in the hands of a few corrupt billionaires and despots seem rather like cheating *ourselves* out of a very healthy income? Doesn't leaving your own people in the hands of a few corrupt billionaires seem like denying *yourself* all the good things in life?
  #12  
Old July 30th 15, 11:21 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Posts: 2,824
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:21:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 1:22:06 PM UTC-4, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, wsne... wrote:

A reduction of lighting in high crime areas might very well lead to an
even higher crime rate.

Or, as the study shows, and as many other studies also show, it might not.


There are no scientific studies of the issue, only speculations based on
conjectures based on sparse data.


Which is why your 'might' statement and my own 'might' statement have equal weight...


Your "might"ignores the results of studies. His doesn't.
  #13  
Old July 30th 15, 02:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Lord Vath
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Posts: 831
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 00:24:42 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote this crap:

On Thursday, 30 July 2015 04:54:50 UTC+2, RichA wrote:

This study is like one done in Sweden about 10 years ago.

Same conclusions.

Much [petty] crime is driven by economic inequality.


Nonsense. Crime is driven by greed. Even millionaires are driven to
crime, such as Martha Stewart.

When personal greed can turn personal advantage to great wealth
it is seen as good. They have become farmers of wealth.
When the poor are denied all access to wealth they have
*only* crime to fulfil their immediate needs and greeds.


You make it sound like all poor are criminals. Not so. I was born to
immigrants who were dirt poor and raised eight children. None of us
turned to crime.

They have returned to an earlier mode of survival and must
become hunter-gatherers.


Bull****.

Better surely, for all, that the majority may access the many
advantages of a healthy and wealthy society? When wealth
is so far away from the daily experience that it seems unattainable
then society has no obvious goals to greater wealth. When all share,
to some degree in that wealth, then wealth seems more easily
attainable and crime drops.


Total Huge Piles of Bull****. Even the middle class and the wealthy
turn to crime. What was the name of that Kennedy who beat a girl to
death with a golf club?

There is much greater opportunity for all because many
more small entrepreneurs will thrive and employ many, many others.

Billionaires cause unemployment and a society riddled with crime
and poverty. The middle classes support a healthy and wealthy
society to the great advantage of all. The middle classes and all
their many workers all pay taxes. Society now has the funds to
set it sights on great projects to inspire all. The billionaire pays
no taxes and employs nobody except lawyers, money launderers
and brokers.


Lies. I alone employ many people. My gardener, my pool boy, my chef,
my maid, my showfer etc.

Billionaires could never have sent Man to the Moon.
A wealthy society of working taxpayers did that. Poverty and
inequality are crimes against humanity's progress to the stars.

A billion consumers have a hundred billion immediate needs and
the means to pay for them. A billion poor need a hundred million
policemen to control them and cannot afford anything. Policemen
are not renowned for their high pay so cannot afford very much.
A billionaire needs only himself and somewhere to safely
hide the proceeds from his petty greed.


Poppycock. The wealthy create jobs and contribute more to society
than the unwashed masses. Donald Trump employs thousands of people.
The wealthy contribute to the arts, sports, sciences, religion, and
more. You have some sort of problem and you should seek professional
help.


This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe
  #14  
Old July 31st 15, 07:13 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_2_]
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Posts: 2,410
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

On Thursday, 30 July 2015 15:55:06 UTC+2, Lord Vath wrote:

Poppycock. The wealthy create jobs and contribute more to society
than the unwashed masses. Donald Trump employs thousands of people.
The wealthy contribute to the arts, sports, sciences, religion, and
more. You have some sort of problem and you should seek professional
help.


I merely offer well-proven suggestions for the economic improvement of mankind. The results of employing these simple economic suggestions, including a much greater share of wealth, are repeated, historical, economic facts. Check you economic history books and blush. Meanwhile you offer rigid dogma, ridicule, proven empty claims and transparently foolish fantasy. And then claim I am the "nut-case?"

If America's next Great White Hope proves to be more than a Great White Shark then it will still be Trumped. America is still living the dream that it can enjoy great wealth, while expending the least possible effort on supporting society as a whole. Each American holds dear the pathetic illusion that if only they can get near enough to a real success then somehow that will rub off on them. They think that Voting for Trump the Clown will make them all filthy rich? He couldn't make it as a stand-up comic in one of his own, sleazy, family-destroying casinos. Without his great wealth he would be treated with exactly the respect he is due. One of due care and keeping the local police station on speed dial. In America he is a hero? What, on earth, does that tell the world about the American psyche?

His repeated losses were inevitably the loss of the lifetime savings of countless small investors. Each gambling on making far more than mere chance will ever provide. Always for the minimal degree of personal effort involved.. The Markets, marketing, advertising, suing your neighbour or the local small business, property investment, Las Vegas, idol worship, insurance fraud, betting in that backstreet joint, and, lest we forget: Trump the Clown. All are an illusion of success which beat lady luck's very long odds against ever winning against the system.

If you really think that voting for the "One Armed Bandit King" will bring success then you'd all better start praying! Even your god is an illusion that your needs and greeds will be personally answered against the infinite number of historical examples of total and abject failure to be heard. Except, of course that you all have highly selective, memory loss. The most obvious point is that enjoying any reward always demands the least possible effort on your part. You even go down on your knees to avoid the exertion of standing up while making your tragic appeals against the very, very long odds of ever beating mere chance. Then reward yourself with soda and ice cream for all your efforts. Because, somehow, you richly deserve it.
  #15  
Old July 31st 15, 09:48 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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Posts: 9,472
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 6:23:14 AM UTC-4, Mike Collins wrote:
palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 3:21:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 1:22:06 PM UTC-4, palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, July 29, 2015 at 10:12:08 AM UTC-7, wsne... wrote:

A reduction of lighting in high crime areas might very well lead to an
even higher crime rate.

Or, as the study shows, and as many other studies also show, it might not.

There are no scientific studies of the issue, only speculations based on
conjectures based on sparse data.


Which is why your 'might' statement and my own 'might' statement have equal weight...


Your "might"ignores the results of studies. His doesn't.


You want studies, little child? :

http://keysso.net/community_news/May...ting_study.pdf

http://www.citylab.com/housing/2014/...s-debate/8359/

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/us...lame.html?_r=0

The results are mixed. There are too many variables. Oakland saw an increase in crime after light reductions. Of eight cities "studied," four had less crime, while four saw no improvement/mixed results as a result of lighting increases.

High crime areas are usually high crime even in broad daylight, while low crime areas are usually low crime even at night. Lighting increases or decreases can have unpredictable and often unmeasurable effects.

When I see a brightly lit urban area, I assume it's a high crime area. The security gates around store fronts, the barbed wire fences and the "beware of dog" signs are further evidence.
  #16  
Old July 31st 15, 09:58 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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Posts: 9,472
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

On Friday, July 31, 2015 at 2:13:17 AM UTC-4, Chris.B wrote:
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 15:55:06 UTC+2, Lord Vath wrote:

Poppycock. The wealthy create jobs and contribute more to society
than the unwashed masses. Donald Trump employs thousands of people.
The wealthy contribute to the arts, sports, sciences, religion, and
more. You have some sort of problem and you should seek professional
help.



If you really think that voting for the "One Armed Bandit King" will bring success then you'd all better start praying!


You need to point out where, in Vath's paragraph that you chose to quote, he suggested -voting- for Trump.

Meanwhile: http://blog.acton.org/archives/49418...reaucracy.html

I agree with Vath in that you need to seek professional help. Your endless, rambling bloviations are signs of a serious dysfunction. Either that or you are a 'bot.
  #17  
Old July 31st 15, 02:13 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Lord Vath
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Posts: 831
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 23:13:15 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote this crap:

On Thursday, 30 July 2015 15:55:06 UTC+2, Lord Vath wrote:

Poppycock. The wealthy create jobs and contribute more to society
than the unwashed masses. Donald Trump employs thousands of people.
The wealthy contribute to the arts, sports, sciences, religion, and
more. You have some sort of problem and you should seek professional
help.


I merely offer well-proven suggestions for the economic improvement
of mankind. The results of employing these simple economic
suggestions, including a much greater share of wealth, are repeated,
historical, economic facts. Check you economic history books and blush.


Fiddlesticks. History shows that all wealth is created by
entrepreneurs, such as Bill Gates. The Vanderbilt's, Rockefellers,
and Carnegie brought great wealth to this country.

Meanwhile you offer rigid dogma, ridicule, proven empty claims
and transparently foolish fantasy. And then claim
I am the "nut-case?"


Most certainly.


This signature is now the ultimate
power in the universe
  #18  
Old August 1st 15, 07:42 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,824
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

"Chris.B" wrote:
On Thursday, 30 July 2015 15:55:06 UTC+2, Lord Vath wrote:

Poppycock. The wealthy create jobs and contribute more to society
than the unwashed masses. Donald Trump employs thousands of people.
The wealthy contribute to the arts, sports, sciences, religion, and
more. You have some sort of problem and you should seek professional
help.


I merely offer well-proven suggestions for the economic improvement of
mankind. The results of employing these simple economic suggestions,
including a much greater share of wealth, are repeated, historical,
economic facts. Check you economic history books and blush. Meanwhile you
offer rigid dogma, ridicule, proven empty claims and transparently
foolish fantasy. And then claim I am the "nut-case?"

If America's next Great White Hope proves to be more than a Great White
Shark then it will still be Trumped. America is still living the dream
that it can enjoy great wealth, while expending the least possible effort
on supporting society as a whole. Each American holds dear the pathetic
illusion that if only they can get near enough to a real success then
somehow that will rub off on them. They think that Voting for Trump the
Clown will make them all filthy rich? He couldn't make it as a stand-up
comic in one of his own, sleazy, family-destroying casinos. Without his
great wealth he would be treated with exactly the respect he is due. One
of due care and keeping the local police station on speed dial. In
America he is a hero? What, on earth, does that tell the world about the American psyche?

His repeated losses were inevitably the loss of the lifetime savings of
countless small investors. Each gambling on making far more than mere
chance will ever provide. Always for the minimal degree of personal
effort involved. The Markets, marketing, advertising, suing your
neighbour or the local small business, property investment, Las Vegas,
idol worship, insurance fraud, betting in that backstreet joint, and,
lest we forget: Trump the Clown. All are an illusion of success which
beat lady luck's very long odds against ever winning against the system.

If you really think that voting for the "One Armed Bandit King" will
bring success then you'd all better start praying! Even your god is an
illusion that your needs and greeds will be personally answered against
the infinite number of historical examples of total and abject failure to
be heard. Except, of course that you all have highly selective, memory
loss. The most obvious point is that enjoying any reward always demands
the least possible effort on your part. You even go down on your knees to
avoid the exertion of standing up while making your tragic appeals
against the very, very long odds of ever beating mere chance. Then reward
yourself with soda and ice cream for all your efforts. Because, somehow,
you richly deserve it.


I wonder if Donald Trump is aware that in Britain and the commonwealth
trump is a slightly more polite way of saying fart? Possibly, since he had
a Scottish mother.
  #19  
Old August 4th 15, 06:48 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,410
Default Cut lighting: Does not make crime increase

On Saturday, 1 August 2015 20:44:07 UTC+2, Mike Collins wrote:

I wonder if Donald Trump is aware that in Britain and the commonwealth
trump is a slightly more polite way of saying fart? Possibly, since he had
a Scottish mother.


I do hope you are not suggesting some parallel between his vocal flatulence and his Scottish ancestry?
I always thought it was an "age" thing.
Though it does make you wonder about those kilts, doesn't it?

I heard "Donny-boy" has just released his election portrait to the eagerly awaiting press:
No expense spared but it's not a bad likeness at all, at all:

http://tinyurl.com/q8rphec


 




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