Why Armies that Chase the Oil Markets Will End Up in the Lake of Fire

Governor Swill wrote:

:Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
:babble
::Why not solar or wind power along with hydro-electric? Why burn fossil
::fuel and add to the existing greenhouse effect?
::
:
:Because we can't generate 90% of our electrical needs with solar and
:wind.
:
:
:We don't need to. We have nuclear, coal and a plethora of other
:sources. Yet that line of reasoning fails to address the number one
:way of dealing with our energy needs. Learning to use less.
:

Typical bilge.

Ok, let's measure it by tying productivity to carbon output, then. Now
you can leave the US alone for a long, long time. You'd get a huge
reduction in CO2 output just by requiring China to be as efficient as
the United States. More big gains to be had by requiring the same of
India and Russia.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

Governor Swill wrote:

:Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
:babble
::There are better ways of making plastic such as the use of organic
::matter such as corn.
::
:
:Sorry, but that's just nuts.
:
:No, it's not. Cellulose is useful in materials applications.
:

Yeah it is. Cellulose isn't plastic. He didn't say replace plastic.
He said make plastic out of corn. That's just nuts.

:
:Coal
:can also be used to develop replacements for petroleum based chemicals
:and materials.
:

Much harder and less energy efficient and coal is not corn.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Governor Swill wrote:

:Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
:babble
::What percentage of a barrel of oil is used for plastic vs. gas and
:ther forms of non-renewable energy that also causes pollution?
::
:
:What are you going to replace gasoline with and where is the energy to
:product THAT going to come from?
:
:How about foot power? How about we start evolving our living and
:working patterns to ones requiring less energy? When I was a kid,
:there were sidewalks most places and always a store within easy
:walking distance.
:
:We've paid a price for economies of scale.
:

But not really. Do the energy balance of having lots of little
neighborhood stores and having to stock them all (which takes energy
to ship all those goods) vs having fewer, larger (but more efficient)
stores.

If we have to make a decision to do it, as you suggest above, it's not
'evolving' at all. Things evolve naturally (which is how we got to
where we are). MANDATING change is not 'evolving'.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
babble
:Because we can't generate 90% of our electrical needs with solar and
:wind.
:
:
:We don't need to. We have nuclear, coal and a plethora of other
:sources. Yet that line of reasoning fails to address the number one
:way of dealing with our energy needs. Learning to use less.
:

Typical bilge.

Ok, let's measure it by tying productivity to carbon output, then. Now
you can leave the US alone for a long, long time. You'd get a huge
reduction in CO2 output just by requiring China to be as efficient as
the United States. More big gains to be had by requiring the same of
India and Russia.

Why should we if they don't? Sounds like a cop out to me.

In any case, I'm not worried much about it one way or another. If the
GW crowd is right, nature will achieve the necessary balance.

Swill

Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
babble
:No, it's not. Cellulose is useful in materials applications.
:

Yeah it is. Cellulose isn't plastic. He didn't say replace plastic.
He said make plastic out of corn. That's just nuts.

You're quibbling over definitions. What we call plastic is polymers.
Polymers can be derived using cellulose.

Swill

Governor Swill wrote:

:Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
:babble
::Because we can't generate 90% of our electrical needs with solar and
::wind.
::
::
::We don't need to. We have nuclear, coal and a plethora of other
::sources. Yet that line of reasoning fails to address the number one
::way of dealing with our energy needs. Learning to use less.
::
:
:Typical bilge.
:
:Ok, let's measure it by tying productivity to carbon output, then. Now
:you can leave the US alone for a long, long time. You'd get a huge
:reduction in CO2 output just by requiring China to be as efficient as
:the United States. More big gains to be had by requiring the same of
:India and Russia.
:
:Why should we if they don't? Sounds like a cop out to me.
:

You do realize that that response makes absolutely no sense at all,
right?

:
:In any case, I'm not worried much about it one way or another. If the
:GW crowd is right, nature will achieve the necessary balance.
:

Nature will always achieve the necessary balance. However, she may do
it by expunging the human race...


--
"Rule Number One for Slayers - Don't die."
-- Buffy, the Vampire Slayer

Governor Swill wrote:

:Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
:babble
::No, it's not. Cellulose is useful in materials applications.
::
:
:Yeah it is. Cellulose isn't plastic. He didn't say replace plastic.
:He said make plastic out of corn. That's just nuts.
:
:You're quibbling over definitions.
:

No, I'm quibbling over FACTS.

:
:What we call plastic is polymers.
:

As are a number of other things that we don't call plastic. You can
call a tail a leg, but a dog still only has 4 legs.

:
:Polymers can be derived using cellulose.
:

Cellulose is a SUBSTITUTE for plastic. It is not plastic. Yes, you
can use high quality cellulose as an ingredient in some types of
plastic. However, try doing that with no petroleum additives of any
kind. Also, that sort of cellulose doesn't come from corn. It comes
from trees.

The chemical industry in general is highly dependent on petroleum
derivatives.


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
babble
:Why should we if they don't? Sounds like a cop out to me.
:

You do realize that that response makes absolutely no sense at all,
right?

It does to me. The point of that argument is that if India and China
don't have to work to reduce GW, we don't either. That's stupid.

:In any case, I'm not worried much about it one way or another. If the
:GW crowd is right, nature will achieve the necessary balance.
:

Nature will always achieve the necessary balance. However, she may do
it by expunging the human race...

Too bad for us being so greedy with our consumerist society.

Swill

Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
babble
Cellulose is a SUBSTITUTE for plastic. It is not plastic. Yes, you
can use high quality cellulose as an ingredient in some types of
plastic. However, try doing that with no petroleum additives of any
kind. Also, that sort of cellulose doesn't come from corn. It comes
from trees.

The chemical industry in general is highly dependent on petroleum
derivatives.

It can be taken from many plants including hemp and corn stalks and
cobs. Many chemicals can be derived from coal as well. Oil has been
cheap and convenient. When coal orientated technologies get rolling,
they'll be cheap and convenient.

Swill

Governor Swill wrote:

:Fred J. McCall used a stick in the sand to
:babble
::Why should we if they don't? Sounds like a cop out to me.
::
:
:You do realize that that response makes absolutely no sense at all,
:right?
:
:It does to me. The point of that argument is that if India and China
:don't have to work to reduce GW, we don't either. That's stupid.
:

Ah, I see. So it *doesn't* make any sense, since that is precisely
what I suggested.

::In any case, I'm not worried much about it one way or another. If the
::GW crowd is right, nature will achieve the necessary balance.
::
:
:Nature will always achieve the necessary balance. However, she may do
:it by expunging the human race...
:
:Too bad for us being so greedy with our consumerist society.
:

Or perhaps we could just shoot the stupid trolls?

Here's your ticket...


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn