Why Armies that Chase the Oil Markets Will End Up in the Lake of Fire

"American" wrote in message
...
Do we really need another oil-chasing president?
*****
]Have you given any thought as to just how inter-twined your life is with
oil? Without it, you're up that creek the prophets speak of.

Dennis

Sooner or later, it was predicted that both the Beast and False
Prophet end up in the "Lake of Fire". Can anyone take a guess what
they
think consists of liquid form that's flammable?

There'd have to be a mini-revolution of sorts here in the U.S. amongst
the employees of companies themselves that produce the oil-based
derivatives (gasoline) in order to massively re-tool their industry.

For this, I would suggest a federal program that would assist the oil
companies in retraining and retooling for a gasoline-to-kerosene
makeover [1], while the automobile manufacturers retrain for replacing
the internal combustion engine with the nuclear powered type.

Stations that sell gasoline could make just as much profit selling
purified H-H-O that gets "cracked" as they do the gasoline.

Each of these industries would receive a tax credit for the expenses
incurred in retooling and retraining, the oil crisis would be solved,
and the human race would benefit the most.

[1] LOX/Kerosene is the major propellent of the Saturn V series
boosters, and a major supply of these vehicles for earth-to-orbit
technology would launch the country into a new space age.
Payload costs would drastically reduce. Space-entrepreneurs
would rekindle the promise markets, and the country would
enjoy the fruits of a major new industrial revolution.

American

"Man always travels along precipices. His truest obligation
is to keep his balance."
- Jose Ortega Y Gasset

"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 11:31 am, "no surrender" wrote:
"American" wrote in message

...
Do we really need another oil-chasing president?

*****
]Have you given any thought as to just how inter-twined your life is with
oil? Without it, you're up that creek the prophets speak of.


More the reason to get away from it now.
*****
It would be amusing to watch you try getting away from it in your daily
life.

Dennis

Like anything that is a monopoly or close to it; those in control will
do nothing to change the status quo. Big Oil is like the old USSR, you
have no choice. Well I say restructure (perestroika) now!

"American" wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 4:57 pm, "no surrender" wrote:

:
: More the reason to get away from it now.
:

Then you agree, congratulations.

: *****
: It would be amusing to watch you try getting away from
: it in your daily life.
:

Are we creating a situational ethic the gives an inanimate
product a consciousness of its own?
****
Now you're just being silly. Our economy and the world's economy is based on
the use of hydrocarbons. Try getting away from it anytime in the next two or
three generations, at least.

Dennis


:
: Like anything that is a monopoly or close to it; those
: in control will do nothing to change the status quo.
: Big Oil is like the old USSR, you have no choice.
: Well I say restructure (perestroika) now!
:
You can't throw the baby (replace gasoline) out with
the bath water (your "big oil").

We must be cautious and at the same time specific
with what we are suggesting.

American

"Man always travels along precipices. His truest obligation
is to keep his balance."
- Jose Ortega Y Gasset

"American" wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 11:31 am, "no surrender" wrote:

:
: *****
: Have you given any thought as to just how inter-twined your
: life is with oil? Without it, you're up that creek the prophets
: speak of.
:
: Dennis


Not ALL oil products, just the GASOLINE by-product.

Retooling can't cost anywhere near what the government
spends to fight terrorism overseas.

As I understand, most oil byproducts get siphoned out
through cracking towers, where the various derivatives
of the crude get distilled.

What's so difficult about shutting off and/or redirecting
the outputs to kerosene?

It can't be THAT much of an engineering issue, if
there was REAL market justification for diverting a
similar quantity of LOX/kerosene to the orbital markets.

It's an vision worth investigating. The contrasting VSE
here is between a happy prosperous market that's not
federally supressed at the 4% manufacturing rate, as
opposed to a world parking lot.
*****
I don't understand what you are nattering on about. How is kerosene, another
product based on hydrocarbons, anybody's idea of a magic elixir?

Dennis



(It's almost a moot issue)

American

"Man always travels along precipices. His truest obligation
is to keep his balance."
- Jose Ortega Y Gasset

"American" wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 7:55 pm, "no surrender" wrote:
: "American" wrote in message
:
:
::
:: More the reason to get away from it now.
::
::
: Then you agree, congratulations.
:
:: *****
:: It would be amusing to watch you try getting away from
:: it in your daily life.
::
::
:: Are we creating a situational ethic the gives an inanimate
:: product a consciousness of its own?

: ****
: Now you're just being silly. Our economy and the world's
: economy is based on the use of hydrocarbons. Try getting
: away from it anytime in the next two or
: three generations, at least.
:
: I don't understand what you are nattering on about.
: How is kerosene, another product based on hydrocarbons,
: anybody's idea of a magic elixir?

"Now" the case IS CLOSED.

The inanimate product, according to "Dennis", must have a
consciousness of its own. Why do I say this? Because YOU
have stated that the "economy is BASED on hydrocarbons",
and that is what you believe.

I do not believe that the economy is "based" on
hydrocarbons any more than it is "based" on consumers
and industries that utilize those hydrocarbons.

But let's be specific. Again, I was talking about not
replacing ALL HYDROCARBONS but just the GASOLINE
HYDROCARBON to which you continually MASK the
word GASOLINE with the words "ALL HYDROCARBONS".

AS I STATED, there are several byproducts of crude oil.
Only one of them is GASOLINE. Another one of them
happens to be KEROSENE.

Kerosene just happens to be part of the fuel that the
Saturn V's use: LOX/kerosene.

Apparently, you've already been desensitized by the
mind numbed robots of the establishment/status quo/
dominionist/zionist/bureaucratic BORG collective
and do not wish to join the ranks of the science
faction, except to suppose that "Things are the way
they are" as you are exercising your existentialist
views, maybe because "Dennis" is not what matters
the most, at least with the science faction.

Do you oppose a life force with these negative
thoughts? If you must include yourself as being a
complete victim of others' spheres of influence,
and have completely refused the analytical argument
in favor of the existential.

Good luck with your endeavors.
*******
Damn, you're cute...strange but cute. What is it about kerosene you find so
seductive and gasoline so repugnant?
And, "dominionist/zionist/bureaucratic BORG collective"!! What does that
mean?

Dennis

:
: American
:
: "Man always travels along precipices. His truest
: obligation is to keep his balance."
: - Jose Ortega Y Gasset

"no surrender" wrote in message
...

"American" wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 7:55 pm, "no surrender" wrote:
: "American" wrote in message


quasi-scientific rantings snipped

views, maybe because "Dennis" is not what matters
the most, at least with the science faction.

Do you oppose a life force with these negative
thoughts? If you must include yourself as being a
complete victim of others' spheres of influence,
and have completely refused the analytical argument
in favor of the existential.

Good luck with your endeavors.
*******
Damn, you're cute...strange but cute. What is it about kerosene you find
so
seductive and gasoline so repugnant?
And, "dominionist/zionist/bureaucratic BORG collective"!! What does that
mean?

Dennis
***
Where can I get some of whatever "American" is smoking?

Joe Blow

"Joe Blow" wrote in message
. net...
"no surrender" wrote in message
...

"American" wrote in message

...
On Jan 31, 7:55 pm, "no surrender" wrote:
: "American" wrote in message


quasi-scientific rantings snipped

views, maybe because "Dennis" is not what matters
the most, at least with the science faction.

Do you oppose a life force with these negative
thoughts? If you must include yourself as being a
complete victim of others' spheres of influence,
and have completely refused the analytical argument
in favor of the existential.

Good luck with your endeavors.
*******
Damn, you're cute...strange but cute. What is it about kerosene you find
so
seductive and gasoline so repugnant?
And, "dominionist/zionist/bureaucratic BORG collective"!! What does that
mean?

Dennis
***
Where can I get some of whatever "American" is smoking?

Joe Blow
****
Oh, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want any of that. See what it's done to
him. A couple of drags, and you wouldn't be able to tie your own shoes
again...ever.

Dennis

"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 4:57 pm, "no surrender" wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote in message

...
On Jan 31, 11:31 am, "no surrender" wrote:
"American" wrote in message


...

Do we really need another oil-chasing president?
*****
]Have you given any thought as to just how inter-twined your life is
with
oil? Without it, you're up that creek the prophets speak of.

More the reason to get away from it now.
*****
It would be amusing to watch you try getting away from it in your daily
life.

So you think the unibomber was funny? Sure he was a radical but
getting away from "it" as you put was excatly what he was doing.

Now for more sane people, they can ride a bike, own a hybrid car,
carpool, etc. Also, use wind and solar power rather than natural gas
and oil.

I find it interesting how smug you are about being a slave to Big Oil.
Perhaps you make a living from the industry?
******
No, young fool, I do not make my living from oil. I do, however, benefit
from it, as do you.

Let's see how you benefit from oil; we'll limit this educational lecture to
one item: your computer.
-electricity comes into your home to operate it, plus provide the heat, AC,
humidity control, power for entertainment devices, etc. to make your life
safe and more comfortable.
-all the employees of the power company use electricity for the same
purposes.
-the computer, keyboard, speakers, printer, and monitor made from plastic,
derived from oil.
-the wiring insulation in the computer made from plastic.
-the power cord and plug coated in plastic.
-the desk upon which it sits likely topped with a plastic laminate.
-all the employees of the computer production company use electricity for
the same purposes.
-every piece of paper you run through your printer was made with the help of
oil.
-the ink in your printer was made with the help of oil.
-the CD's you use to rip songs are made from plastic, plus their packaging
and the storage rack for them.
-the earplugs you wear for your iPod or the MP3 files on your hard drive
made from plastics and with thehelp of oil.
-all the employees of all the companies that make, deliver, sell and repair
all these items use oil.
-the ISP you use uses oil, as do their employees and suppliers.
-the NG administrators also use oil the same way.
-every website you visit uses oil the same way.

Now, where are you going to make a stand, and say no more oil for those
products, those services, those employees?

Also, remember, the Unabomber (not unibomber, as you wrote it) lived in a
one room shack, was insane, and killed folks. That's the future you hope
for?

Dennis

"American" wrote in message
...
On Feb 2, 10:23 am, "no surrender" wrote:
: "Joe Blow" wrote in message
:
::
:: Where can I get some of whatever "American" is smoking?
::
:: Joe Blow
:
: ****
: Oh, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want any of that. See what
: it's done to him. A couple of drags, and you wouldn't be able
: to tie your own shoes again...ever.
:
: Dennis
:
Get a grip on yourself, man, and fix your focus on
solutions rather than symptoms, cause last time I
checked, there's over 1.3 billion Chinese that want
your job, and they're increasing by 10
million a year...

Is there no end to the pessimism here? Is there no
offering the least bit of intuitive gut-felt reasonable
doubt of the oil markets being engraved in the stone of
a world class infrastructure that only the transnationalists
their stockholding clonesmen, the rused/stung/snookered
military industrial establishment, and the Lords of Bush ever
get to see getting accomplished? Why does any or all of
these accomplishments have to be so insularized? Isn't
it because of the deal that is dealt to the those who support
any kind of energy infrastructure must also, by default,
lend itself such an encompassing "evil empire" that people
like "Dennis" feel oblidged to succumb to the "powers that
be" only because hard core dark science people like
"Joe Blow" thinks he's got a real headlock on the science
that must "get us there", may I remind you that cracking
towers, feedlines, valves, boiler houses, and storage
tanks have been around for just about as long as the
oil itself, so what's the problem with suggesting that we
trade out gasoline powered automobiles with LOX/kerosene
powered Saturn V's?

Gasoline production in the U.S. amounts to 9,233,000
barrels per day, so if we're talking about replacing
the same VALUE of gasoline in kerosene, then in addition
to the current 54,000 barrels used per day, a total of
9,287,000 barrels of kerosene would be required. Since
we're talking RP-1 kerosene, this amounts to 46 launches
per day, or about 1 per state in the country, at 18,250
launches per year.

The amount of mass delivered into space at the rate of
5339 tons per day, or 1,948,839 tons per year into LEO.
This is approximately the equivalent to 19 Nimitz aircraft
carriers, or an entire Navy.

Of course, it doesn't have to happen all at once. A gradual
weening in to the financial markets would be a boon to
most or all U.S. manufacturers. In five years, about
570,000 people could be working in LEO - that's about 0.2
percent of the entire population of the U.S. - simply by
phasing out gasoline and replacing it with kerosene.

Roadway congestion across America would also show a
decline by 0.2 percent, and that is only talking about replacing
570,000 people that drive to work every day in metropolitan
areas. If other working people had the desire to become
employed in LEO, then they could either replace those who
return to earth via passenger capsules, or displace some
who decide to join a mining crew for further opportunities.

The possibilities are endless.

The right reasons are there to accomplish a project of
this magnitude.

Let's face the facts - most or all Americans are tired of
forming dependencies with foreign countries that do
nothing but jack the prices of oil around every time
either some terrorist group threatens the security/
trade route of an energy dealer, or an environmentalist
passes new legislation blocking the drilling for oil
somewhere. There has got to be a group of people who
are willing to work in space and take full advantage of
this opportunity, before the system that is supposed to
be serving our needs becomes too "predatory priced".
*****
I would love to see your imitation of Dennis Hopper's character in
Apocalypse Now...like, ya know what I mean, man!!! Huh, man, huh, ya know
what I mean, man!!!

Dennis


American

"There is no security in this life. There is
only opportunity."
- Douglas MacArthur

"American" wrote in message
...
On Feb 2, 8:46 pm, "no surrender" wrote:
"American" wrote in message

...
On Feb 2, 10:23 am, "no surrender" wrote:
: "Joe Blow" wrote in message
:
::
:: Where can I get some of whatever "American" is smoking?
::
:: Joe Blow
:
: ****
: Oh, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want any of that. See what
: it's done to him. A couple of drags, and you wouldn't be able
: to tie your own shoes again...ever.
:
: Dennis
:
Get a grip on yourself, man, and fix your focus on
solutions rather than symptoms, cause last time I
checked, there's over 1.3 billion Chinese that want
your job, and they're increasing by 10
million a year...

Is there no end to the pessimism here? Is there no
offering the least bit of intuitive gut-felt reasonable
doubt of the oil markets being engraved in the stone of
a world class infrastructure that only the transnationalists
their stockholding clonesmen, the rused/stung/snookered
military industrial establishment, and the Lords of Bush ever
get to see getting accomplished? Why does any or all of
these accomplishments have to be so insularized? Isn't
it because of the deal that is dealt to the those who support
any kind of energy infrastructure must also, by default,
lend itself such an encompassing "evil empire" that people
like "Dennis" feel oblidged to succumb to the "powers that
be" only because hard core dark science people like
"Joe Blow" thinks he's got a real headlock on the science
that must "get us there", may I remind you that cracking
towers, feedlines, valves, boiler houses, and storage
tanks have been around for just about as long as the
oil itself, so what's the problem with suggesting that we
trade out gasoline powered automobiles with LOX/kerosene
powered Saturn V's?

Gasoline production in the U.S. amounts to 9,233,000
barrels per day, so if we're talking about replacing
the same VALUE of gasoline in kerosene, then in addition
to the current 54,000 barrels used per day, a total of
9,287,000 barrels of kerosene would be required. Since
we're talking RP-1 kerosene, this amounts to 46 launches
per day, or about 1 per state in the country, at 18,250
launches per year.

The amount of mass delivered into space at the rate of
5339 tons per day, or 1,948,839 tons per year into LEO.
This is approximately the equivalent to 19 Nimitz aircraft
carriers, or an entire Navy.

Of course, it doesn't have to happen all at once. A gradual
weening in to the financial markets would be a boon to
most or all U.S. manufacturers. In five years, about
570,000 people could be working in LEO - that's about 0.2
percent of the entire population of the U.S. - simply by
phasing out gasoline and replacing it with kerosene.

Roadway congestion across America would also show a
decline by 0.2 percent, and that is only talking about replacing
570,000 people that drive to work every day in metropolitan
areas. If other working people had the desire to become
employed in LEO, then they could either replace those who
return to earth via passenger capsules, or displace some
who decide to join a mining crew for further opportunities.

The possibilities are endless.

The right reasons are there to accomplish a project of
this magnitude.

Let's face the facts - most or all Americans are tired of
forming dependencies with foreign countries that do
nothing but jack the prices of oil around every time
either some terrorist group threatens the security/
trade route of an energy dealer, or an environmentalist
passes new legislation blocking the drilling for oil
somewhere. There has got to be a group of people who
are willing to work in space and take full advantage of
this opportunity, before the system that is supposed to
be serving our needs becomes too "predatory priced".
*****
I would love to see your imitation of Dennis Hopper's character in
Apocalypse Now...like, ya know what I mean, man!!! Huh, man, huh, ya know
what I mean, man!!!

Dennis

American

"There is no security in this life. There is
only opportunity."
- Douglas MacArthur

As George Eliot writes about the Silas Mariner, the
weaver, his does so with such inscrutable intensity,
that one is quite tempted to create for themselves
an environment that wakes up the folk hero in all
of us:

"A shadowy conception of power that by much persuasion
can be induced to refrain from inflicting harm, is the
shape most easily taken by the sense of the invisible
in the minds of men who have always been pressed
close by primitive wants, and to whom a life of hard
toil has ever been illuminated by any enthusiastic
religious faith. To them pain and mishap present a
far wider range of possibilities than gladness and
enjoyment: their imagination is almost barren of the
images that feed desire and hope, but is all overgrown
by recollections that are a perpetual pasture to fear."

- Silas Mariner: The Weaver of Raveloe, George Eliot

All of humanity has weaved their tales of life as if
they were somehow subjects to either, and/or the designer
of grindstones (teachers), pottery wheels (ambivalence),
sewing machines (social), or winnowers (religious).

IMO, true angst is how you can balance all of these, with
the least ambivalence in your favor.
****
Whew, you are abstruse.Tell ya what, get a copy of Strunk and Whites
Elements of Style, learn its lessons, then get back to us.

Dennis

American

"Fear is the passion of slaves."
- Patrick Henry