Chinese space station

In article , Dr. O dr.o@xxxxx wrote:
...already convinced that the Shenzhou launch will help their commercial
satellite business enormously, there's already talk that the U.S. satellite
manfucturers are petitioning Congress to allow them to launch on Chinese
launchers.

The US satellite manufacturers have been doing that for years, ever since
they were barred from Chinese launchers as part of the Republican vendetta
against Clinton. (Clinton having permitted, directly and indirectly, the
use of Chinese launchers, he was obviously to blame for alleged technology
leakage as a result. So, hyping the Yellow Peril contributed to attempts
to embarrass him.) At most, the Shenzhou flight has given them a new
opportunity to press their case once again.
--
MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! |

"B. Isaksen" wrote in message
om...
I'm not implying that (or at least I didn't intend to) a lunar flyby
will
help their commercial launching business, but a man-rated program will.
OTOH
nobody knows how the Chinese man-rated their vehicle in the first place.
It
may well be that hardly any changes were made and that they just relied
on
better inspections.

Just the USA has manrated a rocket by it selv, and its free for
everyone to see how well that went. The russians and the chinese has
rated a system also incorperating an escape system.


True, but the system has AFAIK never been tested when the booster explodes
in-flight at high altitude.

Joe Strout wrote in message ...
In article ,
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...ns_031016.html

The Chinese have announced they will soon launch a space-lab and after that
a space station. I'm baffled what could be gained from this? There's hardly
any usefull science that can be done in space (except the eternal experiment
what happens to humans and all of God's creatures under zero grav
circumstances) that can't be done here on Earth.

Maybe they're not interested in doing science on it. Maybe they realize
there is a lot more that could be done in space than science. Maybe,
unlike most of the U.S. authorities, they actually have a clue why space
is important and how to develop it.
Yeah. Hypothetically, how would it feel to know, that the first
robotic Chinese lunar mission will go with a goal to test out their
ISRU technologies ? Produce solar panels or even just simply refine
some materials ? O2 from regolith for instance.

And they _have_ announced plans to send a robotic probe....

-kert

In article ,
(Derek Lyons) wrote:

Maybe they're not interested in doing science on it. Maybe they realize
there is a lot more that could be done in space than science.

Care to enumerate examples?

I'll give just one (the one that matters): development. Under that
umbrella: engineering, architecture, and the accumulation of practical
experience needed to live profitably in space. None of this is science
per se and it is far more important.

Care to explain what makes it 'important'?

Su off Earth are vast (essentially unlimited) resources, which can be
used to the great benefit of humanity once we develop (note: not
"research") the techniques for using them. This will improve the
long-term viability of our species (or its descendants), simultaneously
protecting us against a wide variety of natural (and unnatural)
disasters.

(In reality I doubt the Chinese are in space for any reasons different
than anyone else currently. National prestige along with a few
practical usages.)

Hopefully among the "practical usages" are a long-term plan to fill the
solar system with people. Chinese people, no doubt, but frankly I don't
much care as long as somebody does it.

Cheers,
- Joe

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In article ,
"Dr. O" dr.o@xxxxx wrote:

How is performing a PR stunt smart and wise?

It wil put them (at least on paper) ahead of both the EU and Russia.

You believe that China is engaging in some sort of show-off game? What
would the winner of this game win?

Survival of their race.

We need more, please. How *exactly* does engaging in a PR stunt, to put
them (on paper) ahead of a couple other countries, have anything at all
to do with the survival of their race (which is, BTW, already a
plurality of our species)?

Frankly, I don't see any connection and if I didn't know better, I'd
suspect you were just making up nonsense.

Also, I find it hard to believe that a manned lunar flyby (an enormously
expensive project) would pay for itself as a marketing gimmick.

The Chinese have revealed that they spend about $2billion on their entire
manned-space project (encompassing over ten years). That's dirt cheap
compared to the U.S. or Europe and even much cheaper than Russia.

Yes, and they're also nowhere near the capability for a manned lunar
flyby.

That puts a lunar flyby within financial reach, certainly within a decade,
probably far less.

How do you figure that?

Someone already pointed out the the Long March 3 can lift big
enough payloads to perform a lunar flyby (although they would have to
man-rate the thing). In short, they can do it with minimal financial impact.

There's a lot more to performing a lunar flyby than just being able to
lift enough kilos. Check out "Failure Is Not An Option" by Gene Kranz
for a deeper understanding of what is involved.

But suppose they could do it for, say, an additional $3 billion. How
much do you think this would increase their satellite-launch business,
and how long do you suppose it would take them to recover this $3
billion marketing gimmick?

Cheers,
- Joe

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| http://www.macwebdir.com |
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plan to fill the
solar system with people. Chinese people, no doubt, but frankly I don't
much care as long as somebody does it.

Really? And what if they effectively bar nonchinese people from all the good
resources?

Joe Strout wrote in
:

Why aren't the Chinese smart and wise and planning to send a manned
capsule around the moon? That would be a *huge* PR stunt.

How is performing a PR stunt smart and wise?

Communism is dead in China. Only patriotic pride and nationalism is holding
the country together. Much fo what China is doing in the space program is
to bolster this nationalism.

If nationalism in China dies, the we can see the country falling apart like
in Russia. The government and the Chinese people don't really want to see
that happen.

--
Lucas Tam )
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

(G EddieA95) wrote in
:

plan to fill the
solar system with people. Chinese people, no doubt, but frankly I
don't much care as long as somebody does it.

Really? And what if they effectively bar nonchinese people from all
the good resources?


On the bright side, the Chinese has never been a colonial power. The
Chinese never believed in imperialism.

--
Lucas Tam )
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

In article ,
Lucas Tam wrote:
On the bright side, the Chinese has never been a colonial power. The
Chinese never believed in imperialism.

If you discount the small question of Tibet, of course.

Besides, such national preferences have been known to change. The US was
never an imperial power*, and was vehemently opposed to imperialism, until
it had the chance to acquire some of Spain's overseas possessions after
the Spanish-American War... at which point, the US decided to become an
imperial power.

(* Neglecting the fate of the Indians, and a couple of unsuccessful
attempts to conquer Canada.)
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

plan to fill the
solar system with people. Chinese people, no doubt, but frankly I don't
much care as long as somebody does it.

Really? And what if they effectively bar nonchinese people from all the good
resources?
All civilians have always been effectively barred by nasa from going to the
ISS so what'll be the dam difference if the Chinese get a station, you racist?
^
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