Magnesium-Thorium alloy introduction date?

Does anyone have info on when magnesium-thorium alloy:
http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/c...ts/magthor.htm
....first started to get used in aircraft or missile production?
It was used on the Bomarc missile, among other systems.
Why I'm interested is that analysis of remnants of some just-post-war
UFO debris led to speculation that they were some sort of Soviet
intelligence-gathering devices made primarily of magnesium that were
designed to self-incinerate if they malfunctioned and fell on enemy
territory.
One of the constituents of the debris was thorium:
http://www.project1947.com/articles/dow.htm
John Josef Grebe, Dow Chemical's whiz-kid, (who was the guy who invented
the means of extracting magnesium from seawater) took a deep interest in
all this.
At first he thinks the remains are not important; then next thing thing
you know, he's talking about small magnesium spy devices flying all the
way from the Soviet Union to the U.S.
Col. Holger Toftoy, head of the Operation Paperclip scientists for the
Army's project Hermes, recorded in his diary on Oct 18, 1948:

"Conference attended by Cols Toftoy, Roberts & Bainbridge (CC), Maj
J.F. Gay & Dr. J. J. Grebe, (Chemical Corps), and Dr. Mugson.
Chemical Corps reported analysis of fragments picked up from
'"flying saucer" which vanished with a brilliant flash and bang near
Midlin [sic], Michigan. Sand and clinker recovered from the locality
contained nuggets of fairly pure silver and some thorium. The
thorium was sufficient to give radio activity [sic] approximately 10
times natural background which could possibly be ascribed to thorium
coated filaments in electronic equipment, although the quantity
seems excessive. There was evidence also of mechanism [magnesium]
which had been completely oxidized.

Dr. Grebe advanced his hypothesis that small missiles of the order
of 1 to 3 feet in diameter might be responsible, coming from distant
sources. He considered that a rapidly rotating disc of mechanism
[magnesium] and/or aluminum might have enough energy if properly
utilized to propel the disc several thousand miles, and might be
completely destroyed by burning in air. Remaining traces of silver
and thorium might be ascribed to electronic control system.

After discussion, it was agreed that Col Roberts should request the
Bur of Standards group to investigate some of the mechanisms which
might conceivably propel discs of this general type and TU will keep
in close touch with these calculations (CMH). A meeting next Monday,
25 Oct, can be arranged with Dr. Grebe if indications are favorable.

Dr. Grebe also briefly described a theory of his that a fish-shaped
object with a modified tear-drop cross section would take off along
the long axis and change position in flight to fly at an angle more
like a flying wing. No wings or other aerodynamic surfaces that
produce drag would be required."


Now this is pretty far-out, particularly given the small size of the
object speculated on; it's one-to-three feet in diameter and flies
_several thousand_ miles?!
Was Grebe's interest sparked by the thorium content in the debris, which
he knew could be alloyed with magnesium?

Pat

On Jul 13, 2:03 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
Does anyone have info on when magnesium-thorium alloy:http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/c...ts/magthor.htm
...first started to get used in aircraft or missile production?
It was used on the Bomarc missile, among other systems.
Why I'm interested is that analysis of remnants of some just-post-war
UFO debris led to speculation that they were some sort of Soviet
intelligence-gathering devices made primarily of magnesium that were
designed to self-incinerate if they malfunctioned and fell on enemy
territory.
One of the constituents of the debris was thorium:http://www.project1947.com/articles/dow.htm
John Josef Grebe, Dow Chemical's whiz-kid, (who was the guy who invented
the means of extracting magnesium from seawater) took a deep interest in
all this.
At first he thinks the remains are not important; then next thing thing
you know, he's talking about small magnesium spy devices flying all the
way from the Soviet Union to the U.S.
Col. Holger Toftoy, head of the Operation Paperclip scientists for the
Army's project Hermes, recorded in his diary on Oct 18, 1948:

"Conference attended by Cols Toftoy, Roberts & Bainbridge (CC), Maj
J.F. Gay & Dr. J. J. Grebe, (Chemical Corps), and Dr. Mugson.
Chemical Corps reported analysis of fragments picked up from
'"flying saucer" which vanished with a brilliant flash and bang near
Midlin [sic], Michigan. Sand and clinker recovered from the locality
contained nuggets of fairly pure silver and some thorium. The
thorium was sufficient to give radio activity [sic] approximately 10
times natural background which could possibly be ascribed to thorium
coated filaments in electronic equipment, although the quantity
seems excessive. There was evidence also of mechanism [magnesium]
which had been completely oxidized.

Dr. Grebe advanced his hypothesis that small missiles of the order
of 1 to 3 feet in diameter might be responsible, coming from distant
sources. He considered that a rapidly rotating disc of mechanism
[magnesium] and/or aluminum might have enough energy if properly
utilized to propel the disc several thousand miles, and might be
completely destroyed by burning in air. Remaining traces of silver
and thorium might be ascribed to electronic control system.

After discussion, it was agreed that Col Roberts should request the
Bur of Standards group to investigate some of the mechanisms which
might conceivably propel discs of this general type and TU will keep
in close touch with these calculations (CMH). A meeting next Monday,
25 Oct, can be arranged with Dr. Grebe if indications are favorable.

Dr. Grebe also briefly described a theory of his that a fish-shaped
object with a modified tear-drop cross section would take off along
the long axis and change position in flight to fly at an angle more
like a flying wing. No wings or other aerodynamic surfaces that
produce drag would be required."

Now this is pretty far-out, particularly given the small size of the
object speculated on; it's one-to-three feet in diameter and flies
_several thousand_ miles?!
Was Grebe's interest sparked by the thorium content in the debris, which
he knew could be alloyed with magnesium?

Pat



I'm not sure when Mag-Thorium came into fashion, but I do work with
metallurgists so I'll ask. I do at our aviation museum, our mid 50s
vintage F-105 has mag-thorium in the stabilators.

Gene

While this combination seemed a bit more than exotic, there
is some useage and an online reference:

http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/c...ts/magthor.htm

Note the emphasis on radiation exposure, which probably
accounts for this alloy's rarity. Magnesium itself seems less
popular now in the aerospace industry, probably replaced by
other alloys, composites.

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pu...ium/690497.pdf

Google for additional references.


--Damon

Gene DiGennaro wrote:

I'm not sure when Mag-Thorium came into fashion, but I do work with
metallurgists so I'll ask. I do at our aviation museum, our mid 50s
vintage F-105 has mag-thorium in the stabilators.

The UFO debris also had silver in it, and that is a additive that is
used in one of the magnesium-thorium alloy.
It it weren't for the thorium, I'd have a pretty mundane explanation for
all this - some sort of a silver iodide flare for cloud seeding, that
was designed to completely consume itself before it struck the
ground....maybe something on a parachute?
That would account for the thin iron cylindrical debris (the casing of
the flare, electrically conductive and grounded to prevent accidental
ignition via a static discharge, and burned up by the heat of the
magnesium burning), and the magnesium would burn to release the silver
iodide.
I've seen aircraft burning these, and it indeed does look like some sort
of huge sparkler burning, throwing long-lived sparks all over the place.
One can picture some sort of a air-dropped or rocket-boosted flare that
would be dropped into or shot above a cloud and release the silver
iodide particles as it burned and fell through it.
The Soviets used rockets for cloud seeding in the 1960s.
If that's the case, one can see why no one fessed up to the incident, as
they probably crapped bricks as they saw the flaming thing descending
toward the people who witnessed its arrival, and wanted to avoid a
appearance in court on a charge of reckless endangerment. :-D

Pat

Damon Hill wrote:
While this combination seemed a bit more than exotic, there
is some useage and an online reference:

http://www.orau.org/ptp/collection/c...ts/magthor.htm

Note the emphasis on radiation exposure, which probably
accounts for this alloy's rarity.


They used a lot of it in the Bomarc SAM's ramjets, and after the
radiation problem was discovered a lot of them were taken off of
display: http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/D-21_ramjet.html *
Note the number on the D-21...yes, it is for spying.
Which is a shame, as it's a very impressive-looking missile (I've seen
two close-up; the radome was designed to go through hail at Mach 3, and
looks like it's some sort of ceramic material.), but I imagine if it
gets rained on, the thorium leeches into the soil.
In everyday life, thorium is used in the mantles of gas lanterns causing
the bright glow as it is heated and emits light in the visible rather
than infrared spectrum.
Intriguingly, magnesium oxide also was used for this before thorium:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mantle
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031205.html
(Half-life of 14 _billion_ years?! You wouldn't think it would be even
measurably radioactive.)
You don't think that the thorium was somehow related to the function of
the ramjet by any chance?
To me, a magnesium ramjet sounds like a invitation to a really fast and
severe fire. :-D

* Wow! Operational atomic ramjets! Project Pluto is revenged! ;-)

Pat