|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#121
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
On May 6, 2:51 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
Andre Lieven wrote: That also means that that definition of " facts " would include all of the sites about the 9/11 Jewish Conspiracy, and the Moon Landing Hoax... Books on those subjects also. Often self published, which puts them right back at Internet quality sourcing... Posting web sites has as much editorial and peer review credibility as does self publishing by a vanity press. It MAY be better than that, but theres no standard by which to discern such a difference. Which gives the readers of the web the golden ability to actually make up their own minds about what they believe, rather than trusting one version of it that's spoon-fed to them via large media outlets, thereby letting them develop their ability for critical thinking when they are young. The problem with this concept is that, very often, either media bias, or there being a plethora of nutbar sites that come up on a Google search make even crazy things *appear* as if they are somewhat mainstream. Creationism and Moon Landing Hoaxes are but two great examples of this truth. The Creationists' current shell game is " teach the controversy ", ignoring the fact that there is no legitimate scientific controversy, as the decision in Kitzmiller V/ Dover well shows. Doing that by books would be very time-consuming, but on the Internet it's easy. No, its really not. Derek's distinction between facts and knowledge was spot on. There are a lot of facts on the Web, some of them even true, but for real knowledge in depth, books are still the place to go to. In most cases with a book, you are getting the author's viewpoint of knowledge, not knowledge itself. If the book has 40 pages of footnotes, thats not really correct. The author has studied facts in depth...hopefully...and is asking you to trust their interpretation of them. Again, given a work with hundreds of primary sourced footnotes is nowhere near comparable to an unsourced website of opinings. Given a different author...particularly if that author comes from a different cultural background, or political point of view, and their interpretation of the same things is bound to vary from the first author's in regard to interpretation of the same data. What, theres more than than one fact based view of whether or not Apollo actually happened ? Using the B-17 as a example, the viewpoint of a German author whose city was on the receiving end of its bombs is bound to vary greatly from the former AAC member who flew them and is writing about them. Thats if you are reading Oprah class " memoirs ". If you are reading operational histories, thats not correct. This proposition also presupposes that books are without error in regards to information, which certainly is not the case. Well, as no one suggested that straw donkey, then that neither adds nor distracts from the relative credibility of each source. But, for the most credible knowledge, To figure this out, you'd have to define what exactly what "knowledge" is; once you go past the bare facts of a subject, any commentary on it become a matter of interpretation and viewpoint. We know that on 9/11, three hijacked airliners ran into buildings, appalling America. As to the meaning and of that event, and what led to it occurring, you will find a lot of different views around the world. So ? You find a lot of " different views " as to whether or not three planes actually hit the towers and the Pentagon, but the facts only allow one such view to be accurate. So "knowledge" of it is lacking in a lot of ways, unless by knowledge you mean a majority interpretation of a event held in one country or culture. On the day it occurred, Palestinians were dancing in Gaza City for the strike against America - the ally of Israel that Osama had wrought...at the same time, that van of Israeli tourists that were picked up in NYC while videotaping it were also happy, as now America could see what Israel had to put up with from the Palestinians. That latter one, I''d want to see a cite to. People who say " Now you have a better understanding of what we live through " are not necessarily " happy ". So right there, you could have three different interpretations of one event... so much for consistent "knowledge" about it. As I have pointed out, I quite disagree. You're basically suggesting that intellectual nihlism is the way to go. In much the same way, the works of Aristotle became the unquestionable backbone of philosophic knowledge in the middle ages, despite the fact that most of Aristotle's fact were dead wrong, including such things as the sun going around the Earth. So much for the knowledge of the middle ages, where books tell you that particular stars pull on particular types of plants and cause them to grow, or the old Einstein story about giving his students the exact same physics test two years running, on the grounds that the answers were different the second time around. :-D Well, the idea that just because some folks, hundreds or tens of years ago, used book knowledge badly, that book based knowledge now is a bad thing, is so stretching the point that you've gone way beyond a Road Runner & Coyote Acme SNAP ! books remain the gold standard. And, they come without every use fees... Not for the trees, they don't. Trees don't possess, or acquire knowledge, so this is a major Straw Inflatable F*** Toy... I've probably have the makings of a 300 to 400 pound tree sitting on my bookshelves, and when sitting on the stool, get to examine the writing on sheets of paper made from a tree, while flushing other sheets of paper made from a tree down the toilet. So ? You gonna use the WWW to download virtual wipes, or what ? None of that in any way addressed the fact that primary sources are the standard for any good footnoted work of a book, and few such can be found on primary Internet sources. Derek's earlier well written point, IMHO, stands quite well. Andre |
#122
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
"Andre Lieven" wrote in message ... Let's not mention "Stargate: Infinity" again... Agreed. I note that its about to be offered on DVD. I won't be getting one... What about the animated Starship Troopers? I've found two VHS with 5 episodes each. And, I do have the Space 1999 set and the first season of classic BSG... The *only* season of classic BSG. As to Space:1999, I preferred the first season, although having mission control underground makes far more sense. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#123
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message news:wLGdnUVteaNlNb3VnZ2dnUVZ_qqgnZ2d@northdakotat elephone... Andre Lieven wrote: That also means that that definition of " facts " would include all of the sites about the 9/11 Jewish Conspiracy, and the Moon Landing Hoax... Books on those subjects also. What makes print somewhat different is that you have to have some sort of investment; with the web, you don't even need to own a computer. Having to put out cash up front in order to use the press helps keep a lot of really woohoo stuff in the closet. To figure this out, you'd have to define what exactly what "knowledge" is; once you go past the bare facts of a subject, any commentary on it become a matter of interpretation and viewpoint. A fact would be: the phosphors of your monitor indicate that someone who claims to be me is telling you that the thermometer in his office says the combined temperature of the air and thermometer is 78 degrees F. The truth depends entirely on your point of view. Some folks would say my office is warm, some would say it's cool. Truth is nothing more than facts with a spin. I've probably have the makings of a 300 to 400 pound tree sitting on my bookshelves, and when sitting on the stool, get to examine the writing on sheets of paper made from a tree, while flushing other sheets of paper made from a tree down the toilet. Having moved some of my books cross country more than once, I'm trying very hard to find electronic versions of them. Right now I have 67 banker's boxes in storage with books, and probably 30 similar boxes worth on the shelves. Not to mention nearly 100 boxes of assorted loose papers, including thousands of newspaper clippings. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#124
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
On May 7, 12:05 am, "Scott Hedrick" wrote:
"Andre Lieven" wrote in message ... Let's not mention "Stargate: Infinity" again... Agreed. I note that its about to be offered on DVD. I won't be getting one... What about the animated Starship Troopers? I've found two VHS with 5 episodes each. Its all out on DVD, or so dvdpricesearch.com suggests. Theres seven volumes, a complete series package and a stand alone one disc item. And, I do have the Space 1999 set and the first season of classic BSG... The *only* season of classic BSG. Well, yes, though I did like the Starbuck episode of the later season. That lone surviving Cylon stole the show... " Kill the kid and space the daggit... " As to Space:1999, I preferred the first season, although having mission control underground makes far more sense. Agreed. Way back when that show was still on, I suggested that if they were to have a third season, it would end with about 10 people, 2 Eagles, and about 10% of Alpha left intact... Andre |
#125
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
On Tue, 06 May 2008 13:51:51 -0500, Pat Flannery wrote:
I've probably have the makings of a 300 to 400 pound tree sitting on my bookshelves, and when sitting on the stool, You need to get your toilet fixed! -- One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please. |
#126
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
What makes print somewhat different is that you have to have some sort of
investment; with the web, you don't even need to own a computer. Yes. Having to put out cash up front in order to use the press helps keep a lot of really woohoo stuff in the closet. I see no evidence of that in a time where conspiracy theories, esoterica and similar stuff sell, not to say excellently. Hey, Erich von Däniken made a living out of it starting thirty-something years ago! Jan |
#127
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
"Andre Lieven" wrote in message ... Well, yes, though I did like the Starbuck episode of the later season. That lone surviving Cylon stole the show... I found that as a stand-alone video. Strip a few minutes from each end and it could slip into the true series. " Kill the kid and space the daggit... " Soooooo nice not to see them this second time around (although it's still nice to see Jane Seymour, in anything or nothing). As to Space:1999, I preferred the first season, although having mission control underground makes far more sense. Agreed. Way back when that show was still on, I suggested that if they were to have a third season, it would end with about 10 people, 2 Eagles, and about 10% of Alpha left intact... Rule #1: stop ****ing off the aliens Rule #2: when visiting another system, shut the hell up and don't **** off the aliens Rule #3: start breeding Rule #4: when not breeding, better start building replacement Eagles The Eagles suck as atmospheric craft, but they are just about perfect for the Moon. We should have seen a lot more mission modules. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#128
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
"Jan Vorbrüggen" wrote in message ... What makes print somewhat different is that you have to have some sort of investment; with the web, you don't even need to own a computer. Yes. Having to put out cash up front in order to use the press helps keep a lot of really woohoo stuff in the closet. I see no evidence of that in a time where conspiracy theories, esoterica and similar stuff sell, not to say excellently. Hey, Erich von Däniken made a living out of it starting thirty-something years ago! That's because the public is willing to buy it. That doesn't change the fact that paper and printers cost money. These days, with POD, it doesn't take very much. ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com ** |
#129
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
On Thu, 8 May 2008 17:50:31 -0400, "Scott Hedrick"
wrote: "Andre Lieven" wrote in message ... Well, yes, though I did like the Starbuck episode of the later season. That lone surviving Cylon stole the show... I found that as a stand-alone video. Strip a few minutes from each end and it could slip into the true series. ....Actually, that episode *did* evolve from a leftover script from BSG's only season. The ending had the woman and the child disappearing, and Starbuck making it back in the cobbled together rocket pod. At the closer, we would learn the woman was from the Ship of Lights, and needed to have her kid born in a dangerous place with a hero to save both of them, and Starbuck gets judged as "good" and possibly worthy of joining the Ship of Lights crew when his time is done. Which then cuts to Starbuck playing Pyramid and raking in the cubits :-) ....Also, those flying motorcycles? Built for an episode in pre-production that didn't get filmed due to the show getting canned. There were supposed to be three of them, but only two got built and were put into storage. Had G80 been retroactively aborted, plans were to use them on "Buck Rogers". ....Personally, I would have gotten a kick out of a revelation that the Supreme Leader was really Theo and Twiki. Bi-Di-Bi-Di-B-By Your Command! Bidididi...schmuck!" OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ |
#130
|
|||
|
|||
Soyuz TMA-11 Comes Home, More or Less...
"Scott Hedrick" wrote in message ... Rule #1: stop ****ing off the aliens Rule #2: when visiting another system, shut the hell up and don't **** off the aliens Rule #3: start breeding Rule #4: when not breeding, better start building replacement Eagles The Eagles suck as atmospheric craft, but they are just about perfect for the Moon. We should have seen a lot more mission modules. I watched the show as a kid and later bought some Space: 1999 episodes on VHS and some on DVD. My favorite episodes are the ones with different mission modules and other add-ons to the Eagles. That and I like the probe ship in Dragon's Domain. The probe ship had a command module similar to the front end of an Eagle, only bigger. I think they did a more "realistic" representation of space flight in the near future than any other TV series before them. Of course, they still had to break the laws of physics to make the show work... Jeff -- A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Expedition 15/Spaceflight Participant Farewell & Soyuz Hatch Closure / Soyuz Undocking from ISS | John[_1_] | Space Station | 0 | October 21st 07 10:02 AM |
Soyuz TMA-10 | Roland | Space Station | 0 | April 8th 07 07:58 PM |
Twitty My Home is Your Home | G=EMC^2 Glazier | Misc | 0 | October 8th 06 07:03 PM |
Soyuz TMA-8 tle | Newfdog | Satellites | 3 | March 31st 06 07:21 PM |
US will NOT pay for Soyuz | Bob Haller | Space Shuttle | 13 | November 4th 05 10:59 AM |