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Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 8th 10, 10:52 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

I was amused by this news item:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0407192448.htm

.... the frontiers of science are being pushed back further, and now a
physical cause may have been found for a type of hallucinations that
likely contribute to confusion and the spread of superstition.

John Savard
  #2  
Old April 8th 10, 11:29 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

On Apr 8, 5:52 am, Quadibloc wrote:
I was amused by this news item:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0407192448.htm

... the frontiers of science are being pushed back further, and now a
physical cause may have been found for a type of hallucinations that
likely contribute to confusion and the spread of superstition.


So elevated CO2 in the atmosphere is causing confusion and
hallucinations?! If so, it might explain the results of the last
presidential election and the last two congressional elections.




  #3  
Old April 8th 10, 12:51 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[SMF][_3_]
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Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

On 4/8/2010 5:29 AM, wrote:
On Apr 8, 5:52 am, wrote:
I was amused by this news item:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0407192448.htm

... the frontiers of science are being pushed back further, and now a
physical cause may have been found for a type of hallucinations that
likely contribute to confusion and the spread of superstition.


So elevated CO2 in the atmosphere is causing confusion and
hallucinations?! If so, it might explain the results of the last
presidential election and the last two congressional elections.


That and the rampant belief in AGW. Also, most of the nutters and
cranks populating Usenet.

This could also explain why there isn't any "history" until CO2
levels dropped and why most of the earliest writings are nut-job
religious blathering.
  #4  
Old April 8th 10, 07:07 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

On Apr 8, 4:29*am, wrote:

So elevated CO2 in the atmosphere is causing confusion and
hallucinations?! *If so, it might explain the results of the last
presidential election and the last two congressional elections.


No, it isn't high enough to do that. Elevated carbon dioxide in the
bloodstreams of unconscious patients causes them to have "near-death
experiences"... but the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has not
caused people to have visions in increasing numbers.

John Savard
  #5  
Old April 9th 10, 11:08 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

On Apr 8, 2:07 pm, Quadibloc wrote:
On Apr 8, 4:29 am, wrote:

So elevated CO2 in the atmosphere is causing confusion and
hallucinations?! If so, it might explain the results of the last
presidential election and the last two congressional elections.


No, it isn't high enough to do that. Elevated carbon dioxide in the
bloodstreams of unconscious patients causes them to have "near-death
experiences"...


Obviously, the CO2 in the bloodstream is formed by normal metabolic
processes. However, the patients' immediate problems is that
breathing and heart function have stopped, one result of which is the
buildup of CO2, which might be the cause of the "near-death
experiences." The CO2 in and of itself is not "bad" as the title of
the thread implies.

but the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has not
caused people to have visions in increasing numbers.


The title and content of your post implied that atmospheric CO2 is
somehow related to NDEs. One reads the link to find out that you are
refering to NDEs, which may or may not explain the origins of religion
(dreams and meditation might be a more likely origin.)


  #6  
Old April 9th 10, 02:33 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Morten Reistad
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Posts: 114
Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

In article ,
Quadibloc wrote:
I was amused by this news item:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0407192448.htm

... the frontiers of science are being pushed back further, and now a
physical cause may have been found for a type of hallucinations that
likely contribute to confusion and the spread of superstition.


But of course. CO2 makes for some real trips, mostly bad ones.

For those who seem I have really jumped to conclusions, let me
follow up with some background.

I am one of those hooked on diving, who constantly try new courses
and avenues of exploration. I have logged about three months worth
of bottom time. This leads to an intuitive familiarity with another
environment that escapes most humans.

Underwater is not lost. It is a treasure throve of information.

When the TED lecture about flying underwater came on, it was self-evident.
Divers refer to this as "getting the trim right". It is the next item
we have to hammer into newbies after getting their breating right.

That cod can be friends, and let themselves be petted; and that
you can control herring, tuna and other large flock fish with a
spotlight is also some neat information that is lost on others.

We learn good behaviour among fish, so we don't scare them. You
can get a lot closer to fish than you can to almost any other
wild animals, but you must behave.

The pressure effects are also second nature. Humans are built to
handle the current athmospheric oxygen levels, but not by a wide
downward margin. The upward margin is a lot higher. We are also able
to get rid of the Co2 produced by the body, but that is also not by a
very wide margin.

As the pressure goes up, the oxygen concentration goes up; but so
does the CO2 concentration. At 40 meters depth, on air, getting rid
of that CO2 becomes a real issue. The body is not built for that.
Do you exercise and breathing wrong, and you will have what is
called a CO2 hit. It is normally very uncomfortable; but it can happen
as a soothing, relaxing high where white spots flash before your eyes.
Or rather, right behind them. And normally a little out to the sides.
And you have long lost the sense of colour when you get there. Not
that the world is in black and white, the concept of colours is just
not present anymore.

This is a clear indicator that you need to stop, breathe, and get
shallower. The CO2 hit in itself is not very dangerous, but you could
lose control and drown, e.g. by passing out.

So, I know exactly what they are talking about.

Next, they will be describing the Wah-Wah, oxygen Pete, the
tunnel vision, the spinning vertigo, and PFO-induced migraine.

And there really IS a drug that works against almost all viruses,
bacteria, and helps against the majority of intoxicants. Using it
at highest efficiency will make you sober up about 4 times as fast
as you normally would. It costs about half a cent per liter.

Yep, hyperbaric oxygen. Makes nails and hair grow like crazy too.

-- mrr


  #7  
Old April 9th 10, 02:35 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Morten Reistad
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Posts: 114
Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

In article ,
wrote:
On Apr 8, 5:52 am, Quadibloc wrote:
I was amused by this news item:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0407192448.htm

... the frontiers of science are being pushed back further, and now a
physical cause may have been found for a type of hallucinations that
likely contribute to confusion and the spread of superstition.


So elevated CO2 in the atmosphere is causing confusion and
hallucinations?! If so, it might explain the results of the last
presidential election and the last two congressional elections.


No, you need a lot more CO2. Like 6% ambient, ppCO2=0.06 bar.

Current CO2 levels just went past 0.04 %. Humans will handle
half a percent just fine. Some birds may not.

-- mrr
  #9  
Old April 10th 10, 01:30 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

On Apr 9, 9:49 am, Bill wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 03:08:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Obviously, the CO2 in the bloodstream is formed by normal metabolic
processes. However, the patients' immediate problems is that
breathing and heart function have stopped, one result of which is the
buildup of CO2,


Normally blood C02 levels in the blood are fairly well regulated by the
body within an acceptable range. Too high or too low CO2 levels can
lead to problems.

When someone stops breathing/not circulating blood - C02 will buildup
for a short time - until most of the avaialble oxygen is consumed, then
the shift to anerobic respiration will result in lactic acid building up
in the blood/tissues. The lower pH adversly affects hemoglobin & O2
transport and causes other bad things.


People do hold their breath or become out-of-breath, but that "not
circulating blood" thing is a real show stopper.

Hyperventilating lowers CO2 in the blood, which also has an adverse
effect on O2 transport. This is why people who hyperventillate can't
get enough O2 to meet thier need = worsening their "panic". Having
them breathe into a paper bag helps restore adequate levels of C02 and a
return to normal O2 transport.


Some of the AGW crowd should try the paper bag trick.



  #10  
Old April 10th 10, 02:27 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Sam Wormley[_2_]
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Posts: 3,966
Default Carbon Dioxide is bad for more than Global Warming

On 4/9/10 7:30 PM, wrote:
On Apr 9, 9:49 am, wrote:
On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 03:08:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Obviously, the CO2 in the bloodstream is formed by normal metabolic
processes. However, the patients' immediate problems is that
breathing and heart function have stopped, one result of which is the
buildup of CO2,


Normally blood C02 levels in the blood are fairly well regulated by the
body within an acceptable range. Too high or too low CO2 levels can
lead to problems.

When someone stops breathing/not circulating blood - C02 will buildup
for a short time - until most of the avaialble oxygen is consumed, then
the shift to anerobic respiration will result in lactic acid building up
in the blood/tissues. The lower pH adversly affects hemoglobin& O2
transport and causes other bad things.


People do hold their breath or become out-of-breath, but that "not
circulating blood" thing is a real show stopper.

Hyperventilating lowers CO2 in the blood, which also has an adverse
effect on O2 transport. This is why people who hyperventillate can't
get enough O2 to meet thier need = worsening their "panic". Having
them breathe into a paper bag helps restore adequate levels of C02 and a
return to normal O2 transport.


Some of the AGW crowd should try the paper bag trick.




"What happens when you have an episode of sleep apnea"?

"When you stop breathing during sleep due to sleep apnea, the balance of
oxygen and carbon dioxide in the blood is upset. This imbalance
stimulates the brain to restart the breathing process. The brain signals
you to wake up so that the muscles of the tongue and throat can increase
the size of the airway. Then, carbon dioxide can escape, and oxygen can
enter the airway. These waking episodes are necessary to restart
breathing (and to save your life), and you may not remember them, but
they do disrupt your sleep and cause daytime exhaustion".

 




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