A thought on fast neutrinos

On 10/12/2011 2:21 AM, Byron Forbes wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production


Exactly. There's another example.


In , says...

Must have read it in some old German physics book.
But if you have an example of creating mass out of nothing then please tell
me about it.

"PD" wrote in message ...

On 10/10/2011 7:06 AM, admformeto wrote:
Since particles which have mass cannot be created or destroyed where do
those neutrinos come from?



Wherever did you hear that mass cannot be created or destroyed? There is
no such physical law.

Its inertia in electric and magnetic field and weight in gravity field.
But you did not answer my question?

"PD" wrote in message ...

On 10/12/2011 7:48 AM, admformeto wrote:
OK, so what constitutes of this particle's mass?

Mass is a *property*. Not all subatomic things have it.

Let me ask YOU something. For electrons: what constitutes this object's
mass?


"PD" wrote in message ...
On 10/10/2011 2:46 PM, admformeto wrote:
Oh yes, how many electrons does it have, how many protons, what is the
mass of this particle and how was it measured?


Has it occurred to you to look up what a neutrino is?
Has it occurred to you that a *subatomic* particle will not be
structured like an atom?

On 10/12/2011 6:21 PM, admformeto wrote:
Its inertia in electric and magnetic field and weight in gravity field.

You've just described how to measure it, not what *constitutes* it (what
it's made of).

And actually, what you've described is not quite how the electron mass
is measured. Do you know how a mass spectrograph works? You can also
measure electron mass with much more precise methods, involving their
production in particle collisions.

But you did not answer my question?

"PD" wrote in message ...
On 10/12/2011 7:48 AM, admformeto wrote:
OK, so what constitutes of this particle's mass?

Mass is a *property*. Not all subatomic things have it.

Let me ask YOU something. For electrons: what constitutes this object's
mass?


"PD" wrote in message ...
On 10/10/2011 2:46 PM, admformeto wrote:
Oh yes, how many electrons does it have, how many protons, what is the
mass of this particle and how was it measured?


Has it occurred to you to look up what a neutrino is?
Has it occurred to you that a *subatomic* particle will not be
structured like an atom?

May be my English is not sufficient but mass is a physical property and not
a physical entity.
Still, you have not answered my question.

"PD" wrote in message ...

On 10/12/2011 6:21 PM, admformeto wrote:
Its inertia in electric and magnetic field and weight in gravity field.

You've just described how to measure it, not what *constitutes* it (what
it's made of).

And actually, what you've described is not quite how the electron mass
is measured. Do you know how a mass spectrograph works? You can also
measure electron mass with much more precise methods, involving their
production in particle collisions.

But you did not answer my question?

"PD" wrote in message ...
On 10/12/2011 7:48 AM, admformeto wrote:
OK, so what constitutes of this particle's mass?

Mass is a *property*. Not all subatomic things have it.

Let me ask YOU something. For electrons: what constitutes this object's
mass?


"PD" wrote in message ...
On 10/10/2011 2:46 PM, admformeto wrote:
Oh yes, how many electrons does it have, how many protons, what is the
mass of this particle and how was it measured?


Has it occurred to you to look up what a neutrino is?
Has it occurred to you that a *subatomic* particle will not be
structured like an atom?

On 10/13/2011 9:13 AM, admformeto wrote:
May be my English is not sufficient but mass is a physical property and
not a physical entity.
Still, you have not answered my question.

Neutrino mass was thought recently to be zero (and that's fine, photons
have zero mass as far as we know). But the best evidence for nonzero
neutrino mass has to do with a phenomenon called flavor-oscillation,
where lepton number is violated and muon neutrinos change identity into
electron neutrinos and vice versa. How this happens and what the
connection to mass is, is an advanced topic. But analogs can be seen in
simple, coupled two-pendulum systems and so can be made accessible to
beginners in a rough sense.


"PD" wrote in message ...

On 10/12/2011 6:21 PM, admformeto wrote:
Its inertia in electric and magnetic field and weight in gravity field.

You've just described how to measure it, not what *constitutes* it (what
it's made of).

And actually, what you've described is not quite how the electron mass
is measured. Do you know how a mass spectrograph works? You can also
measure electron mass with much more precise methods, involving their
production in particle collisions.

But you did not answer my question?

In article , says...

Dear Byron Forbes:

On Oct 12, 12:24*am, Byron Forbes wrote:
...
Has it occurred to you that a neutrino is not a particle at all?

The family of neutrinos has a total non-zero rest mass. It interacts
discretely.

* * * * Always emitted at c, always observed at c.

Never observed at any particular speed, but with *very* low mass, easy
to get near c.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Speed

Do you have any evidence of them traveling at 0.1c? How about 0.6c?


* * * * Why? How?

Who, What, When, Where?

You apparently have last-word-itis. You post merely because you are
incensed that you did not get in the last word.

David A. Smith


kettle black.

They travel at c or thereabouts ALWAYS!

Why? How?

In article , says...

On 10/12/2011 2:24 AM, Byron Forbes wrote:
In , says...

On 10/10/2011 2:46 PM, admformeto wrote:
Oh yes, how many electrons does it have, how many protons, what is the
mass of this particle and how was it measured?


Has it occurred to you to look up what a neutrino is?
Has it occurred to you that a *subatomic* particle will not be
structured like an atom?


Has it occurred to you that a neutrino is not a particle at all?

I guess it depends on what you think a particle is and does.


Always emitted at c, always observed at c.

Neutrinos? No, that's not clear that they do that.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Speed

Close enough. The simple point is that they don't travel at any old speed.



Why? How?

Dear Byron Forbes:

On Oct 14, 12:26*am, Byron Forbes wrote:
....
* * * * They travel at c or thereabouts ALWAYS!

* * * * Why? How?

Obviously, because you say so, Mr. Kettle.

When the only way we can currently detect them is if they are capable
of generating characteristic Cherenkov radiation, you are only
detecting energetic ones. We may be awash in the ones that cause
neutron decay, which can have lower speeds.

Place your hands over your ears. Between your two hands is the best
friend and worst enemy you will ever face. Think before you post,
please.

David A. Smith

In article , says...

Dear Byron Forbes:

On Oct 14, 12:26*am, Byron Forbes wrote:
...
* * * * They travel at c or thereabouts ALWAYS!

* * * * Why? How?

Obviously, because you say so, Mr. Kettle.

When the only way we can currently detect them is if they are capable
of generating characteristic Cherenkov radiation, you are only
detecting energetic ones. We may be awash in the ones that cause
neutron decay, which can have lower speeds.

Place your hands over your ears. Between your two hands is the best
friend and worst enemy you will ever face. Think before you post,
please.

David A. Smith


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Speed

Tell wiki that.

Would we not detect them at speeds lower than c, like 0.95c, if they did indeed do that?

It looks to me as though neutrinos have always been measured at c or above!

Dear Byron Forbes:

On Oct 15, 10:17*am, Byron Forbes wrote:
In article , says...
Dear Byron Forbes:

On Oct 14, 12:26 am, Byron Forbes wrote:
...
They travel at c or thereabouts ALWAYS!

Why? How?

Obviously, because you say so, Mr. Kettle.

When the only way we can currently detect them is if they are capable
of generating characteristic Cherenkov radiation, you are only
detecting energetic ones. *We may be awash in the ones that cause
neutron decay, which can have lower speeds.

Place your hands over your ears. *Between your two hands is the best
friend and worst enemy you will ever face. *Think before you post,
please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino#Speed

* * * * Tell wiki that.

Tell wiki anything, and hope it sticks.

* * * * Would we not detect them at speeds lower than c, like 0.95c,
if they did indeed do that?

No. Because we expect to be awash in then that are "cooled" by a
gamma of 1/1024 from these energies. So they'd be indiscernable from
background levels.

* * * * It looks to me as though neutrinos have always been measured
at c or above!

By the way, the jury is pretty close to being in. These neutrinos
moved even more slowly than reported. Seems like they did not correct
for signal propagation delays in the correct way. The two detectors
are in physically very different locations. Roughly a 65ns error,
which has then traveling just under c.

David A. Smith