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Phobos and Diemos Observed
Hi Richard,
Richard DeLuca wrote: Tonight (8/22-23) was the charm- two little indians. This time I knew precisely where to look, and both arrived at eastern elongation during my observing run. Unlike the other night (see my post: 'Call me Asaph Hall') when I spotted Deimos by lucky accident under still and transparent skies, I really had to work to find them this time. And I needed the occulting bar, and also could not see them continuously, but they were both there, for sure. A satisfying feeling. Isn't it though? I'm still smiling. You know I read no reports of seeing either moon on these newsgroups last opposition. There was even some idiot claiming than one had been knocked out of orbit and as far as I recall nobody was able to stand up and say, "no way--I just saw them." What a terrific opposition this is. Congrats Richard! Greg -- Greg Crinklaw Astronomical Software Developer Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m) SkyTools Software for the Observer: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html Skyhound Observing Pages: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html |
#12
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message ... Hi Richard, You know I read no reports of seeing either moon on these newsgroups last opposition. There was even some idiot claiming than one had been knocked out of orbit and as far as I recall nobody was able to stand up and say, "no way--I just saw them." What a terrific opposition this is. Congrats Richard! Hi Greg, Although this is a good opposition in terms of the distance of the planet, it's not so great for those of us at high northern latitudes, who are observing Mars through the "murk" close to the horizon due to the -15 degree declination of the planet. I'm delighted to hear that you've spotted the moons - that's a fabulous achievement! - but I'm not certain I agree with your comment made in an earlier post that "it's now or never" as far as observing them goes. How would you rate, for example, this opposition compared with the next one in Nov 2005 in terms of the facts that, although the planet will be 0.1 AU more distant, it will also be 30 degrees further north, at +15 rather than the current -15? My personal "gut feeling" is that the fact that Mars will be high in the sky for us northern observers will more than compensate for the fact that the satellites will be slightly fainter and slightly closer to the planet. Have you any thoughts on this? Regards, Chris |
#13
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message ... Hi Richard, You know I read no reports of seeing either moon on these newsgroups last opposition. There was even some idiot claiming than one had been knocked out of orbit and as far as I recall nobody was able to stand up and say, "no way--I just saw them." What a terrific opposition this is. Congrats Richard! Hi Greg, Although this is a good opposition in terms of the distance of the planet, it's not so great for those of us at high northern latitudes, who are observing Mars through the "murk" close to the horizon due to the -15 degree declination of the planet. I'm delighted to hear that you've spotted the moons - that's a fabulous achievement! - but I'm not certain I agree with your comment made in an earlier post that "it's now or never" as far as observing them goes. How would you rate, for example, this opposition compared with the next one in Nov 2005 in terms of the facts that, although the planet will be 0.1 AU more distant, it will also be 30 degrees further north, at +15 rather than the current -15? My personal "gut feeling" is that the fact that Mars will be high in the sky for us northern observers will more than compensate for the fact that the satellites will be slightly fainter and slightly closer to the planet. Have you any thoughts on this? Regards, Chris |
#14
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
Hi Chris,
Chris Marriott wrote: Although this is a good opposition in terms of the distance of the planet, it's not so great for those of us at high northern latitudes, who are observing Mars through the "murk" close to the horizon due to the -15 degree declination of the planet. I'm delighted to hear that you've spotted the moons - that's a fabulous achievement! - but I'm not certain I agree with your comment made in an earlier post that "it's now or never" as far as observing them goes. H My intent is to share my excitement and to get people off their duffs to get out and look. That applies to those who live at high latitudes as well. The best time to observe is always now. Otherwise you will always find a better time... Now as for the idea of Mars being too far south for those who live in the UK, allow me to relate an interesting experience I had last last night. The weather was not very good; in fact it was cloudy until midnight and even afterward you could "smell" the humidity in the air. Yet when I got a good look at Mars the seeing turned out to be unexpectedly good. During periods of excellent seeing I could see more detail more easily than I had seen the night I had so easily seen the moons. In short, the seeing was better this night. Yet no matter how hard I looked both moons remained invisible. Why? I realized the answer when I had a look at Uranus. It was surrounded by a bright halo! This halo was so large and so bright that even its moons were difficult to see in the surrounding haze. No wonder I hadn't been able to see Phobos and Deimos! Even though the seeing was excellent they were drowned out in all that forward scattering in the atmosphere. Now, one could argue that the atmospheric conditions in the UK are such that the forward scattering will probably always be greater than it is here no matter how high Mars is in the sky. But is it not true that the game we observers play when trying to make a difficult observation is be persistent until we get lucky with the observing conditions? To my way of thinking a successful observation of the moons of mars requires a congruence of following elements: (1) Favorable atmospheric conditions (2) A favorable opposition (3) A well designed, well taken care of telescope (4) An experienced, confident, well prepared observer Now, we can't control (1) or (2), and (3) is usually a fixed parameter. (1) and (2) may occur whether we are looking or not. Although less likely than at lower latitudes, I see no reason that favorable atmospheric conditions might not be present this very night in the UK! And I claim that it is entirely possible that a night of low forward scattering near a favorable opposition is enough to overcome a somewhat low altitude of Mars at the time (within reason of course). What I am trying to do here is address point (3) by helping people become better prepared and most of all more confident. It's easy to fail at this is if you are sure you have little chance of success. But most of all, one will never succeed if one never gets his duff off the sofa! You simply have to try night after night until you get lucky. It's now or never! Clear skies, Greg -- Greg Crinklaw Astronomical Software Developer Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m) SkyTools Software for the Observer: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html Skyhound Observing Pages: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html |
#15
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
Hi Chris,
Chris Marriott wrote: Although this is a good opposition in terms of the distance of the planet, it's not so great for those of us at high northern latitudes, who are observing Mars through the "murk" close to the horizon due to the -15 degree declination of the planet. I'm delighted to hear that you've spotted the moons - that's a fabulous achievement! - but I'm not certain I agree with your comment made in an earlier post that "it's now or never" as far as observing them goes. H My intent is to share my excitement and to get people off their duffs to get out and look. That applies to those who live at high latitudes as well. The best time to observe is always now. Otherwise you will always find a better time... Now as for the idea of Mars being too far south for those who live in the UK, allow me to relate an interesting experience I had last last night. The weather was not very good; in fact it was cloudy until midnight and even afterward you could "smell" the humidity in the air. Yet when I got a good look at Mars the seeing turned out to be unexpectedly good. During periods of excellent seeing I could see more detail more easily than I had seen the night I had so easily seen the moons. In short, the seeing was better this night. Yet no matter how hard I looked both moons remained invisible. Why? I realized the answer when I had a look at Uranus. It was surrounded by a bright halo! This halo was so large and so bright that even its moons were difficult to see in the surrounding haze. No wonder I hadn't been able to see Phobos and Deimos! Even though the seeing was excellent they were drowned out in all that forward scattering in the atmosphere. Now, one could argue that the atmospheric conditions in the UK are such that the forward scattering will probably always be greater than it is here no matter how high Mars is in the sky. But is it not true that the game we observers play when trying to make a difficult observation is be persistent until we get lucky with the observing conditions? To my way of thinking a successful observation of the moons of mars requires a congruence of following elements: (1) Favorable atmospheric conditions (2) A favorable opposition (3) A well designed, well taken care of telescope (4) An experienced, confident, well prepared observer Now, we can't control (1) or (2), and (3) is usually a fixed parameter. (1) and (2) may occur whether we are looking or not. Although less likely than at lower latitudes, I see no reason that favorable atmospheric conditions might not be present this very night in the UK! And I claim that it is entirely possible that a night of low forward scattering near a favorable opposition is enough to overcome a somewhat low altitude of Mars at the time (within reason of course). What I am trying to do here is address point (3) by helping people become better prepared and most of all more confident. It's easy to fail at this is if you are sure you have little chance of success. But most of all, one will never succeed if one never gets his duff off the sofa! You simply have to try night after night until you get lucky. It's now or never! Clear skies, Greg -- Greg Crinklaw Astronomical Software Developer Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m) SkyTools Software for the Observer: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html Skyhound Observing Pages: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html |
#16
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
Greg Crinklaw wrote:
MUCH SNIPPED Now as for the idea of Mars being too far south for those who live in the UK, allow me to relate an interesting experience I had last last night. The weather was not very good; in fact it was cloudy until midnight and even afterward you could "smell" the humidity in the air. Yet when I got a good look at Mars the seeing turned out to be unexpectedly good. During periods of excellent seeing I could see more detail more easily than I had seen the night I had so easily seen the moons. In short, the seeing was better this night. Yet no matter how hard I looked both moons remained invisible. Why? I realized the answer when I had a look at Uranus. It was surrounded by a bright halo! This halo was so large and so bright that even its moons were difficult to see in the surrounding haze. No wonder I hadn't been able to see Phobos and Deimos! Even though the seeing was excellent they were drowned out in all that forward scattering in the atmosphere. Now, one could argue that the atmospheric conditions in the UK are such that the forward scattering will probably always be greater than it is here no matter how high Mars is in the sky. But is it not true that the game we observers play when trying to make a difficult observation is be persistent until we get lucky with the observing conditions? Greg I agree with all this - had the same experience last night - at 10pm it was raining hard - at 1.30 you could smell the mist but see Mars through it. My best views of Mars so far have been through a nd filter - but last night the nd made Mars so dim I could hardly see it at all, the mist was that thick. But a constant has been that Mars does not look good until it's above 20 degrees and that a) limits the time you can spend on it to a couple of hours or less and b) 2am is when I begin to feel physically drained and still have an EQ6 to carry indoors. A n elevation of 50 degrees or so as we shall have in 2005 may be a very better prospect than this year's 23 degrees Which is not to say I don't deeply envy your capture of the moons - many congratulations. Cheers Martin -------------- Martin Frey N 51 02 E 0 47 -------------- |
#17
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
Greg Crinklaw wrote:
MUCH SNIPPED Now as for the idea of Mars being too far south for those who live in the UK, allow me to relate an interesting experience I had last last night. The weather was not very good; in fact it was cloudy until midnight and even afterward you could "smell" the humidity in the air. Yet when I got a good look at Mars the seeing turned out to be unexpectedly good. During periods of excellent seeing I could see more detail more easily than I had seen the night I had so easily seen the moons. In short, the seeing was better this night. Yet no matter how hard I looked both moons remained invisible. Why? I realized the answer when I had a look at Uranus. It was surrounded by a bright halo! This halo was so large and so bright that even its moons were difficult to see in the surrounding haze. No wonder I hadn't been able to see Phobos and Deimos! Even though the seeing was excellent they were drowned out in all that forward scattering in the atmosphere. Now, one could argue that the atmospheric conditions in the UK are such that the forward scattering will probably always be greater than it is here no matter how high Mars is in the sky. But is it not true that the game we observers play when trying to make a difficult observation is be persistent until we get lucky with the observing conditions? Greg I agree with all this - had the same experience last night - at 10pm it was raining hard - at 1.30 you could smell the mist but see Mars through it. My best views of Mars so far have been through a nd filter - but last night the nd made Mars so dim I could hardly see it at all, the mist was that thick. But a constant has been that Mars does not look good until it's above 20 degrees and that a) limits the time you can spend on it to a couple of hours or less and b) 2am is when I begin to feel physically drained and still have an EQ6 to carry indoors. A n elevation of 50 degrees or so as we shall have in 2005 may be a very better prospect than this year's 23 degrees Which is not to say I don't deeply envy your capture of the moons - many congratulations. Cheers Martin -------------- Martin Frey N 51 02 E 0 47 -------------- |
#18
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
Hi Martin,
Martin Frey wrote: A n elevation of 50 degrees or so as we shall have in 2005 may be a very better prospect than this year's 23 degrees My point is simply this: people should not use the relatively low altitude of Mars as an excuse for failure. The key to success is to be out there every chance you can get, whether it be this opposition or the next. It's now or never! Hell, it could rain throughout the entire 2005 opposition... Clear skies, Greg -- Greg Crinklaw Astronomical Software Developer Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m) SkyTools Software for the Observer: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html Skyhound Observing Pages: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html |
#19
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
Hi Martin,
Martin Frey wrote: A n elevation of 50 degrees or so as we shall have in 2005 may be a very better prospect than this year's 23 degrees My point is simply this: people should not use the relatively low altitude of Mars as an excuse for failure. The key to success is to be out there every chance you can get, whether it be this opposition or the next. It's now or never! Hell, it could rain throughout the entire 2005 opposition... Clear skies, Greg -- Greg Crinklaw Astronomical Software Developer Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m) SkyTools Software for the Observer: http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html Skyhound Observing Pages: http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html |
#20
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Phobos and Diemos Observed
"Greg Crinklaw" wrote in message ... My point is simply this: people should not use the relatively low altitude of Mars as an excuse for failure. The key to success is to be out there every chance you can get, whether it be this opposition or the next. It's now or never! Hell, it could rain throughout the entire 2005 opposition... I completely agree with you, Greg; one should never miss an opportunity to observe! My original question to you was, however, a serious one, and I would be interested to hear your views on it. Do you have any thoughts as to how the benefit of being able to observe Mars at 50 degrees rather than 20 degrees altitude is likely to weigh against the downside of the the planet being somewhat further away, as far as observing the moons is concerned? Regards, Chris |
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Phobos and Diemos Observed | Greg Crinklaw | Amateur Astronomy | 34 | August 25th 03 11:54 PM |