green laser pointer issue

If you think GLPs are potentially bad, wait 'til more
people start buying the new 10+ million candle-power
portable flashlights.

I bought one out of necessity to "scan" my backyard before
setting up scope(s), and, for kicks, shined it upwards at a
tree and the shadow of the tree was projected onto clouds
at greater than 5,000 feet elevation. Whoa! These lamps
can be purchased for around US$25 (Costco, et al) and will
definitely blind any pilot(s) should they be shone onto any
aircraft.

Sad to say, I think you are right. This regime could not have been
elected if a majority of voters (a tiny majority, but a majority,
nonetheless) were not afraid. Th

For a moment I thought you were talking about the two Clinton elections.
In both cases he got less tha 50% of the popular vote. He did win by scaring
the elderly and the blacks.
Lets keep your political bias out of this discussion group.

Tim -

We've already established that retinal burns are impossible with
anything that is commonly available, please do not propagate
sensationalistic hearsay. Sounds like AW is catering to a bunch of
prima donnas and has little regard for the facts.

Mark


Tim Killian wrote:
You are misstating the facts. His treatment has little to do with
laser
pointers. The guy in NJ is getting slammed because 1) he lied to the
FBI, and 2) he is being used by the prosecutors to test the new laws
in
the Patriot act. If he had cooperated when arrested instead of acting

like a fool, he likely would not be facing these draconian charges.
The
same thing happened to Martha Stewart. I doubt he will get the full
sentence or the fine the feds are seeking.

The latest issue of Aviation Week magazine has an article about the
recent spate of laser incidents. They range from annoying glare in
the
cockpit on approach, to a second officer who was diagnosed with
retinal
burns. The article also features a picture of a small amateur
telescope
with a green laser star sight attached, and its beam pointing
skyward.

You just can't buy publicity like that...

By calling attention to the issue, the media is only inviting LASER
(and other bright light source) incidents.

"Uncle Bob" wrote in message
ng.com...
Bill Waterston wrote:
I think you guys might be off on this one. I've seen these green lasers
being used by kids and rather irresponsibly... shooting it at movie
screens
in the theatre, right in their friends eye, a distraction during school
assemblies, etc etc. It's true, you can use them to help out at star
parties and the like, but I really feel that their danger outweighs
their
usefulness and if they are not banned, sales should be restricted to
those
under a certain age. As with a gun, perhaps a permit should be needed
also.
Ridiculous? Perhaps, perhaps not, but they are definitely a growing
problem.

Bill



We went through a similar hue and cry when red laser pointers were the
fad. Now green laser pointers are the fad.

Well, there's a huge difference in brightness between the red and green so
the "cry" needs to be taken more seriously, IMO.

In six months, something
else will come along to displace green lasers as the greatest threat
to...to...well, you know, the *next cause for alarm*.

So let's cool our jets and let nature take its course.

I remember the same thing being said about slingshots, cross bows and, yes,
intersections. Now slingshots and crossbows are restricted or banned in
many states, and there are a lot more red lights at intersections.
Sometimes doing nothing is the worst course to take.


When it's all
over, we won't have any more or any less freedoms or technological
yo-yo's than we did before it all began.

I sure hope word never gets out that microwaving compact discs can
create a runaway matter-anti-matter anihillation event.

Never heard that and I certainly hope it's not true. Of course, if it were,
I'm sure we'd have a new source of power by now.

Bill

Uncle Bob

wrote in message
oups.com...
If you think GLPs are potentially bad, wait 'til more
people start buying the new 10+ million candle-power
portable flashlights.

I bought one out of necessity to "scan" my backyard before
setting up scope(s), and, for kicks, shined it upwards at a
tree and the shadow of the tree was projected onto clouds
at greater than 5,000 feet elevation. Whoa! These lamps
can be purchased for around US$25 (Costco, et al) and will
definitely blind any pilot(s) should they be shone onto any
aircraft.

The only saving grace here is that spotlights are easier to track I believe.
So shine it and then visit the slammer the next day.

"Mark" wrote in message
oups.com...
By calling attention to the issue, the media is only inviting LASER
(and other bright light source) incidents.

You can say the same thing about ANYTHING that the media grabs hold of, so
the risk will always be there no matter what is brought forth, harmful or
not.

You don't like the message, so your response is to shoot the messenger?
There was no exaggeration in the AW article -- the incident occurred on
a Delta flight landing at Salt Lake City on 22 SEP 04. A "green light"
temporarily blinded one of the guys in the cockpit, and he was later
diagnosed with "retinal burns". Over the past five years, the FAA
received hundreds of reports of ground lasers illuminating aircraft, but
this incident was obviously more serious than most.

To a bureaucrat in DC, a laser is a laser. And when an incident
involving a laser results in permanent vision impairment of an aircrew
member, no matter how rare or unlikely it might be, the bureaucratic
response from the FAA, FBI, etc. is very predictable. Law abiding folks
are finding out firsthand what any petty criminal knows: you don't mess
with the Eagle.

I'll grant that GLPs are useful for teaching elements of the night sky
to small groups of people. But in the current climate of heightened
bureaucratic "attention", and numerous reports of irresponsible use of
GLPs by individuals, I think it's entirely reasonable and responsible
for event sponsors to ban their use.

Mark wrote:
Tim -

We've already established that retinal burns are impossible with
anything that is commonly available, please do not propagate
sensationalistic hearsay. Sounds like AW is catering to a bunch of
prima donnas and has little regard for the facts.

Mark


Tim Killian wrote:

You are misstating the facts. His treatment has little to do with

laser

pointers. The guy in NJ is getting slammed because 1) he lied to the
FBI, and 2) he is being used by the prosecutors to test the new laws

in

the Patriot act. If he had cooperated when arrested instead of acting


like a fool, he likely would not be facing these draconian charges.

The

same thing happened to Martha Stewart. I doubt he will get the full
sentence or the fine the feds are seeking.

The latest issue of Aviation Week magazine has an article about the
recent spate of laser incidents. They range from annoying glare in

the

cockpit on approach, to a second officer who was diagnosed with

retinal

burns. The article also features a picture of a small amateur

telescope

with a green laser star sight attached, and its beam pointing

skyward.

You just can't buy publicity like that...

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:18:15 -0700, Tim Killian
wrote:

You don't like the message, so your response is to shoot the messenger?
There was no exaggeration in the AW article -- the incident occurred on
a Delta flight landing at Salt Lake City on 22 SEP 04. A "green light"
temporarily blinded one of the guys in the cockpit, and he was later
diagnosed with "retinal burns".

The problem is that if the pilot did indeed suffer retinal burns from a
laser, the incident involved some sort of very high power device- the
sort that is already subject to some regulation. This is something that
_should_ be investigated. The fact that anybody in law enforcement is
comparing an incident like this to anything that is remotely possible
with a GLP is evidence of incompetence where we really don't need it,
and therefore should be of concern to everyone. This is precisely
equivalent to a bus driver being hit by a bullet, and the legal response
being to go after squirt guns. We have a right to expect better of those
we appoint to protect us.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

Again, bureaucrats don't care about the technical details. The facts are
the 1) the incident resulted in permanent vision damage, and 2) a green
laser was the likely cause.

As individuals, we may have the right to expect better from government
officials, but how does that change the reality for people who sponsor
and organize star parties? Some posters seem to think that legal
liability doesn't intrude into the sanctity of amateur astronomy -- get
real. Most public events require some form of liability insurance, and
it would be foolish in the extreme for sponsors of an event like WSP to
ignore the obvious legal implications of recent events.

Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 08:18:15 -0700, Tim Killian
wrote:


You don't like the message, so your response is to shoot the messenger?
There was no exaggeration in the AW article -- the incident occurred on
a Delta flight landing at Salt Lake City on 22 SEP 04. A "green light"
temporarily blinded one of the guys in the cockpit, and he was later
diagnosed with "retinal burns".


The problem is that if the pilot did indeed suffer retinal burns from a
laser, the incident involved some sort of very high power device- the
sort that is already subject to some regulation. This is something that
_should_ be investigated. The fact that anybody in law enforcement is
comparing an incident like this to anything that is remotely possible
with a GLP is evidence of incompetence where we really don't need it,
and therefore should be of concern to everyone. This is precisely
equivalent to a bus driver being hit by a bullet, and the legal response
being to go after squirt guns. We have a right to expect better of those
we appoint to protect us.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com