Define "Land"

Concerning the google prize for landing on the moon trekking 1200' and
taking pics. Lets play fast and loose with "Land". How about a
rolling impact? How about a direct shot to the moon with a solid fuel
rocket to slow it down just prior to impact and then inflation of
airbags. As it rolls across the terrain it takes pics. This could be
very low mass.

In article .com,
Frogwatch wrote:

Concerning the google prize for landing on the moon trekking 1200' and
taking pics. Lets play fast and loose with "Land". How about a
rolling impact? How about a direct shot to the moon with a solid fuel
rocket to slow it down just prior to impact and then inflation of
airbags. As it rolls across the terrain it takes pics. This could be
very low mass.

I'm skeptical that this would help much over just landing with rockets
alone. But hey, if you can make it work, go for it! One of the points
of a prize is to avoid top-down picking of solutions.

--
"Polywell" fusion -- an approach to nuclear fusion that might actually work.
Learn more and discuss via: http://www.strout.net/info/science/polywell/

Frogwatch wrote:

Concerning the google prize for landing on the moon trekking 1200' and
taking pics. Lets play fast and loose with "Land". How about a
rolling impact? How about a direct shot to the moon with a solid fuel
rocket to slow it down just prior to impact and then inflation of
airbags. As it rolls across the terrain it takes pics. This could be
very low mass.

Land, capable of moving and taking pictures on the surface of the Moon over
some period of time greater than a few milliseconds. You ideas might work.

What would an Open Source Lunar Project look like?

On Sep 13, 10:36 pm, Craig Fink wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Concerning the google prize for landing on the moon trekking 1200' and
taking pics. Lets play fast and loose with "Land". How about a
rolling impact? How about a direct shot to the moon with a solid fuel
rocket to slow it down just prior to impact and then inflation of
airbags. As it rolls across the terrain it takes pics. This could be
very low mass.

Land, capable of moving and taking pictures on the surface of the Moon over
some period of time greater than a few milliseconds. You ideas might work.

What would an Open Source Lunar Project look like?

Forget the airbage, too complicated. Instead simply use a solid
rocket that fires a few secs before impact to slow her down. Then,
off pops the payload that free falls to lunar surface. It is
basically a foam ball with a robust ccd camera imbedded in the foam.
It impacts which activates the camera that takes pics as it bounces
across the terrain. After it stops rolling, camera continues till
batteries die. I'd say, maybe 5 kg for the payload.

Frogwatch wrote:
On Sep 13, 10:36 pm, Craig Fink wrote:
Frogwatch wrote:
Concerning the google prize for landing on the moon trekking 1200'
and taking pics. Lets play fast and loose with "Land". How about
a
rolling impact? How about a direct shot to the moon with a solid
fuel rocket to slow it down just prior to impact and then
inflation
of airbags. As it rolls across the terrain it takes pics. This
could be very low mass.

Land, capable of moving and taking pictures on the surface of the
Moon over some period of time greater than a few milliseconds. You
ideas might work.

What would an Open Source Lunar Project look like?

Forget the airbage, too complicated. Instead simply use a solid
rocket that fires a few secs before impact to slow her down. Then,
off pops the payload that free falls to lunar surface. It is
basically a foam ball with a robust ccd camera imbedded in the foam.
It impacts which activates the camera that takes pics as it bounces
across the terrain. After it stops rolling, camera continues till
batteries die. I'd say, maybe 5 kg for the payload.

What are you going to use for a transmitter? Most spacecraft that
communicate with Earth from that kind of distance use a directional
antenna of some kind. If you're not going to have a mechanism for
aiming the antenna then you're going to have to increase the power
level accordingly.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

In article , J. Clarke
wrote:

Frogwatch wrote:

Forget the airbage, too complicated. Instead simply use a solid
rocket that fires a few secs before impact to slow her down. Then,
off pops the payload that free falls to lunar surface. It is
basically a foam ball with a robust ccd camera imbedded in the foam.
It impacts which activates the camera that takes pics as it bounces
across the terrain. After it stops rolling, camera continues till
batteries die. I'd say, maybe 5 kg for the payload.

What are you going to use for a transmitter? Most spacecraft that
communicate with Earth from that kind of distance use a directional
antenna of some kind. If you're not going to have a mechanism for
aiming the antenna then you're going to have to increase the power
level accordingly.

Phased-array antennas are electronically steered, so in theory you
don't need mechanical gimbals to steer an antenna to keep the
transmission beam pointing at Earth even as you bounce and roll across
the lunar surface.

I am not saying that it would be easy.

--
David M. Palmer (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)

"David M. Palmer" wrote:

:In article , J. Clarke
wrote:
:
: Frogwatch wrote:
:
: Forget the airbage, too complicated. Instead simply use a solid
: rocket that fires a few secs before impact to slow her down. Then,
: off pops the payload that free falls to lunar surface. It is
: basically a foam ball with a robust ccd camera imbedded in the foam.
: It impacts which activates the camera that takes pics as it bounces
: across the terrain. After it stops rolling, camera continues till
: batteries die. I'd say, maybe 5 kg for the payload.
:
: What are you going to use for a transmitter? Most spacecraft that
: communicate with Earth from that kind of distance use a directional
: antenna of some kind. If you're not going to have a mechanism for
: aiming the antenna then you're going to have to increase the power
: level accordingly.
:
:Phased-array antennas are electronically steered, so in theory you
:don't need mechanical gimbals to steer an antenna to keep the
:transmission beam pointing at Earth even as you bounce and roll across
:the lunar surface.
:
:I am not saying that it would be easy.
:

Or even possible. I suggest you look at how big such an array would
have to be to get a reasonably beamformed transmission to a fixed
location on Earth.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

On Nov 10, 4:14 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
"David M. Palmer" wrote:

:In article , J. wrote:

:: Frogwatch wrote:

:
: Forget the airbage, too complicated. Instead simply use a solid
: rocket that fires a few secs before impact to slow her down. Then,
: off pops the payload that free falls to lunar surface. It is
: basically a foam ball with a robust ccd camera imbedded in the foam.
: It impacts which activates the camera that takes pics as it bounces
: across the terrain. After it stops rolling, camera continues till
: batteries die. I'd say, maybe 5 kg for the payload.
:
: What are you going to use for a transmitter? Most spacecraft that
: communicate with Earth from that kind of distance use a directional
: antenna of some kind. If you're not going to have a mechanism for
: aiming the antenna then you're going to have to increase the power
: level accordingly.
:
:Phased-array antennas are electronically steered, so in theory you
:don't need mechanical gimbals to steer an antenna to keep the
:transmission beam pointing at Earth even as you bounce and roll across
:the lunar surface.
:
:I am not saying that it would be easy.
:

Or even possible. I suggest you look at how big such an array would
have to be to get a reasonably beamformed transmission to a fixed
location on Earth.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

Gimballed antenna inside the foam ball so it always points up with
enough small antenna elements to make a phase array to point toward
earth. Internal memory saves the video and doesn't transmit until it
stops rolling.

On Nov 10, 4:14 am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
"David M. Palmer" wrote:

:In article , J. wrote:

:: Frogwatch wrote:

:
: Forget the airbage, too complicated. Instead simply use a solid
: rocket that fires a few secs before impact to slow her down. Then,
: off pops the payload that free falls to lunar surface. It is
: basically a foam ball with a robust ccd camera imbedded in the foam.
: It impacts which activates the camera that takes pics as it bounces
: across the terrain. After it stops rolling, camera continues till
: batteries die. I'd say, maybe 5 kg for the payload.
:
: What are you going to use for a transmitter? Most spacecraft that
: communicate with Earth from that kind of distance use a directional
: antenna of some kind. If you're not going to have a mechanism for
: aiming the antenna then you're going to have to increase the power
: level accordingly.
:
:Phased-array antennas are electronically steered, so in theory you
:don't need mechanical gimbals to steer an antenna to keep the
:transmission beam pointing at Earth even as you bounce and roll across
:the lunar surface.
:
:I am not saying that it would be easy.
:

Or even possible. I suggest you look at how big such an array would
have to be to get a reasonably beamformed transmission to a fixed


location on Earth.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw

For a real Lunar rover to explore a lava tube, this:

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/11/0...-to-dominance/

is what I want.

In article , Fred J. McCall
wrote:

:Phased-array antennas are electronically steered, so in theory you
:don't need mechanical gimbals to steer an antenna to keep the
:transmission beam pointing at Earth even as you bounce and roll across
:the lunar surface.
:
:I am not saying that it would be easy.
:

Or even possible. I suggest you look at how big such an array would
have to be to get a reasonably beamformed transmission to a fixed
location on Earth.

It would have to be about the same size as a conventional antenna with
the same beamwidth.

--
David M. Palmer (formerly @clark.net, @ematic.com)