Let us stop picking on Nasa!

John Ordover wrote:

I am assuming that some people's plans will fail, not all of them.

Mike Walsh

They will all fail. Much like the web boom was, they are driven by a
dream, not customer demand.

How much customer demand was there for airplanes a hundred years ago
today. It is the existence of a product or service which creates the
demand.

"John Ordover" wrote:
I am assuming that some people's plans will fail, not all of them.

Mike Walsh

They will all fail. Much like the web boom was, they are driven by a
dream, not customer demand.

You are hi-larious John. Are you saying all the web companies
failed? Even Yahoo, and eBay, and Amazon, and google, and
NewEgg, and all those porn companies too? Even all the web
based businesses with current positive profits and positive
growth (and there are literally thousands of those)? Wow, I
wish my failures were so lucrative.

"John Ordover" wrote:
LEO is much the same. It may be a
ride to "nowhere", but the view is unmatched. Plus, it's the only
ride where you get to enjoy zero-gravity for the majority of the
flight. That, in and of itself, may be worth it for some.

You mean pucking their guts out, which is the response of 70 percent
of train astronauts to zero-G? They don't call it the Vomit Comet for
nothing.

Which explains why nobody purchases rides in fighter jets either,
because most of the time the passengers puke too.

Oh wait, people pay thousands of dollars for the fun of puking
in a fighter jet.


For that matter, if what you say is true, they'd be selling
rides on vomit comets right now, and making profit. They aren't.

John, you truly are a clown to the world. The Russians sell
rides in their version of the vomit comets, they make a
decent profit on it too. Such rides are sold as part of a
package deal (involving other space training related stuff)
which costs about $5,000 the last time I checked. Hundreds
of people have paid for the rides.

Here's the webpage for the vomit comet rides offered by
Incredible Adventures:
http://www.incredible-adventures.com/zerog.html
Here's the brochu
http://www.incredible-adventures.com...ogbrochure.pdf

"John Ordover" wrote:
I must have missed this post. Anyway, this is blatantly
untrue. Many people spend *lots* of money on airplane
rides *solely* to enjoy the ride.

They spend what percentage of their income on this?

Obviously, it varies. As with any interest or hobby there are
some folks who spend the majority of their disposable income
on it (as do some people who enjoy, say, bass fishing or
various collectables). As I mentioned, many people spend
substantial amounts of money on it, ranging from the price
of a new car all the way up to hundreds of thousands to
millions of dollars.


Are you really
arguing that the set of people for whom $1M is the same income
percentage as $50 or $100 or so is for the average person is large
enough that the percentage of them who would want to take a joyride
into space is enough to make up a significant market?

Obviously I am not arguing anything of the sort. Do you
lack remedial reading comprehension skills John? There
are classes that can help you out if that is the case.
What I am arguing is that the following statement (an
exact quote of yours) is blatantly false:

"People buy airline tickets only due to the lack of
teleportation booths - they don't buy them to enjoy the
ride,"

Which it is. Do you wish to argue the merits of that
statement?


Have you taken
a survey that shows that the super-rich are all dying to get into
space?

I think you mean "given a survey", since I am not super-
rich. Regardless, 2 tickets have been bought for trips
to space at multi-million dollar prices, and XCOR (through
Space Adventures) already has about 100 reservations for
sub-orbital flights at circa $100k a pop. That sounds
like hard data to me. Judging by the continued efforts of
XCOR and Space Adventures to pursue these markets I would
have to say that they think so to.


In any case, I was responding to the suggestion that -airlines- were a
model for the joyrides to LEO, not all aircraft doing everything.

And in running to try to discredit the idea that nobody
would buy tickets to space you instead tripped over your
shoe laces and fell flat on your face by trying to
support your assertion with an erroneous statement.


Any response as to why no one is selling vomit comet rides? They meet
all the same criteria - spectacular view, zero-G - that you think will
be such a selling point for LEO. Plus the technology exists and is
mature.

See my other post. They are selling vomit comet rides.
I'm so glad you took that up as your hobby horse John, so
very glad. I've had a hard day's work this morning and
it's good to be entertained by such a highly skilled
clown as yourself. I'm tempted to start up a collection
in sci.space.policy to buy you a legitimate jester's hat,
it would suit you well.

Do you enjoy being a clown John?

John Ordover wrote:

Again, John, you have recorded your ignorance for all
the world to see and called attention to it by being so
bone headed stupid as to repeatedly make blatantly
untrue claims on subjects you know nothing about.
Either acquire a clue or stop making a fool of yourself.
Or continue making a fool of yourself for all I care,
it's interesting amusement. Do you enjoy being a clown
to the world John?

Ah, I see, you are extrapolating from your own likes and dislikes to
the mass market. A sure way to go down in flames financially.

Tell you what - here's a testable prediction: In five years, nothing
of what you say will have come to pass. There will not be private LEO
systems, or any other private industry in space.

Are you claiming that all of the commercial communication satellite
systems are going to go out of business in the next 5 years?

You are aware that there are billions of dollars invested in
communication satellites today.

Mike Walsh

John Ordover wrote:

I am assuming that some people's plans will fail, not all of them.

Mike Walsh

They will all fail. Much like the web boom was, they are driven by a
dream, not customer demand.

Are you now claiming that all of the .com and web ventures failed?

Mike Walsh

(John Ordover) writes:

They will all fail. Much like the web boom was, they are driven by a
dream, not customer demand.

Please call e-Bay and Amazon and tell them they're in trouble because
John Ordover said that there isn't any demand for their services.

Jeff
--
Remove "no" and "spam" from email address to reply.
If it says "This is not spam!", it's surely a lie.

On 01 Jul 2003 17:25:48 -0400, in a place far, far away, jeff findley
made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:

(John Ordover) writes:

You mean pucking their guts out, which is the response of 70 percent
of train astronauts to zero-G? They don't call it the Vomit Comet for
nothing. For that matter, if what you say is true, they'd be selling
rides on vomit comets right now, and making profit. They aren't.

Same tired old arguments I've seen before. People pay to enter theme
parks on a regular basis, knowing full well they may "puke their guts
out". Yet people still pay for the thrill of theme park rides.

He's also obviously never heard of Incredible Adventures and Space
Adventures, which do in fact make a profit selling weightless rides.

John Ordover being ignorant of something? What a shocker.

--
simberg.interglobal.org * 310 372-7963 (CA) 307 739-1296 (Jackson Hole)
interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

"Extraordinary launch vehicles require extraordinary markets..."
Swap the first . and @ and throw out the ".trash" to email me.
Here's my email address for autospammers:

(John Ordover) wrote:

You mean pucking their guts out, which is the response of 70 percent
of train astronauts to zero-G? They don't call it the Vomit Comet for
nothing.

I'm no expert in the topic, but as I understand it most of the people who
"puke their guts out" do it about 30 or 40 cycles into the hi-G/lo-G
alternations. Almost nobody has a problem with microgravity at first.
People who take anti-motion-sickness medication don't have the problem at
all.

For that matter, if what you say is true, they'd be selling
rides on vomit comets right now, and making profit. They aren't.

Space Adventures and Incredible Adventures *are* selling zero-G parabolic
airplane flights right now, and making profit.

Let me repeat that so there's no mistaking it:

Space Adventures and Incredible Adventures *are* selling zero-G parabolic
airplane flights right now, and making profit.

There are more things in heaven and earth, John....

(John Ordover) wrote:

Tell you what - here's a testable prediction: In five years, nothing
of what you say will have come to pass. There will not be private LEO
systems, or any other private industry in space.

Just so I'm clear on this -- you are predicting that all the *existing*
private satellites will disappear within five years?