NTRS update - September 6, 2013

On 9/15/2013 4:00 PM, David Spain wrote:
I don't want to get into a big rant over ITAR/USML and over what should
be and what should not be on the list. Personally, I'm not convinced it
has prevented anything from falling into the "wrong" hands. Slowed the
bad hands down some, maybe, or maybe not.


Let me rephrase that. Sure it works. Up to a point. Against the better
organized and therefore more dangerous, however, no.

OTOH in the real world we live in there will always be something like
ITAR and USML in existence. Hence the phrase "get used to it"...

However doesn't mean for things like 60's era space exploration
documents I have to like it...

Dave

On 9/15/2013 5:10 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
Neither of us is in a position to argue the appropriateness or
efficacy of ITAR and what's on the USML. I'll just mention that it
affects me a lot more immediately than it affects you. I have to get
an export license before I can even go to some meetings with
customers.



You are correct that I cannot provide an argument against it's
effectiveness. But the absence of knowledge does not mean I cannot
question it. Always willing to hear what those with expertise and
experience to speak about it have to say. But not in this thread. Start
another...

I agree it is a lot rarer for me, but I have experienced it. It happened
once about two decades back when a high performance switch/router I was
working on had to have its software distribution changed when our group
discovered that shipping it with the IDEA encryption package provided by
our Swiss parent company directly from the US was an ITAR violation. We
had to ship w/o encryption and let the foreign customer add IDEA as an
option purchased directly from the Swiss distributor.

As to why people affected by it care so much, I'll just ask a question
of you. What is the maximum fine that can be imposed by the US
Government for an ITAR violation?


Stanford U says this:

http://doresearch.stanford.edu/resea...ms-regulations

Criminal Sanction: (Individual)
Fine up to $1M or up to 10 years in prison or both, PER violation.

Civil Sanction: (Individual)
Fine of up to $500,000 per violation, denial of export privileges and/or
seizure/forfeiture of goods.

I'll go with their answer...

And there is also the Roth case: so there is established case law as
well....

http://www.fbi.gov/knoxville/press-r...-research-data

I never claimed violations are without serious consequences. Quite the
opposite.

Dave