Opportunity toaster:( has traveled 22 mars miles

In article 330f3364-2e4f-469f-8c6e-
, says...
mars can have GPS too. Probably with fewer sats, since they dont need
precision like on earth where GPS have so many uses......

It could, but it would be hideously expensive. Not going to happen
without a huge need. Toasters on Mars is not a huge need.

Are you being deliberately dense? For the cost of putting in place a
GPS system around Mars, you could very likely fund a manned mission to
Mars.

You're making zero sense here Bob. Just admit you're wrong about this.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

In article d46c40bc-2056-4a81-a3b7-aeacee327379
@e11g2000vbv.googlegroups.com, says...

auto drive tractors are primarily used on very large farms, to not
only plow but harvest........

being unmanned allows the farmer to be doing other farm jobs, that
still require humans

For this to prove your point, they would have to be operated remotely
with no one in the cab. I've never heard of this being done, even on
"very large farms". Farm hands are cheap. The type of tech you're
describing is not.

Cite or it didn't happen except in your deranged mind.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

In article ,
says...

bob haller wrote:


auto drive tractors now plow farmers fields, and there are no roads in
farmers fields


Cite? I know lots of farmers. There are people driving those
tractors.

Same here. One side of my family is comprised of farmers (excepting one
lawyer). They have some really high tech tractors these days, but I
have *never* heard of one driving itself while the farmer sits in his
"office" sipping coffee and eating donuts.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

In article cb8cb483-4719-4d00-b452-51a8677030e5
@z9g2000vbx.googlegroups.com, says...

Lets look back at some historical facts

Computers were needed for the moon landing since it would be
impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo and the LMs
landing. Real time data downlinks / uplinks wouldnt be good enough.

It also wasn't possible without a commander and pilot on board. The
computers were *not* enough to safely and reliably "auto-land" a LEM in
the 1960's. In fact, Apollo 11 pretty much proved this fact. The
computer was going to try to land in a boulder field had Armstrong not
redirected the LEM to a safer landing site.

nasas needs drove all sorts of developments that benefit every person
on earth....

This is a myth. Actually, the development of the IC's used in the
Apollo computers (CSM and LEM) were "driven" by ICBM development,
specifically the Minuteman missile program. Apollo was one of the first
non-military applications using that technology, but that technology is
absolutely *not* a NASA spin-off.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Feb 6, 11:21*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
Lets look back at some historical facts

Computers were needed for the moon landing since it would be
impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo and the LMs
landing. Real time data downlinks / uplinks wouldnt be good enough.

And yet they did exactly that. *You understand that those vehicles all
had human-operated controls and that they were used, right? *So much
for your "impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo
and the LMs landing" idiocy.



So nasa got mini computers to do the job.....

Wrong.



which led to hand held calculators etc......

Really wrong.



apollo computers had less memory than a dollar store calcualtor
today......

Well, you got that part right.



nasas needs drove all sorts of developments that benefit every person
on earth....

Totally wrong, if you're talking about computers.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
*truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson

apollo with zero computers would of never been possible. The LM
couldnt of carried enough people onboard to do all the
computations ........

Jeff Findley wrote:

This is a myth. Actually, the development of the IC's used in the
Apollo computers (CSM and LEM) were "driven" by ICBM development,
specifically the Minuteman missile program. Apollo was one of the first
non-military applications using that technology, but that technology is
absolutely *not* a NASA spin-off.

Wikipedia says:

"Both the Minuteman missile and Apollo program needed lightweight
digital computers for their inertial guidance systems; the Apollo
guidance computer led and motivated the integrated-circuit
technology,[15] while the Minuteman missile forced it into
mass-production"

You might want to suggest an edit.

In article , lid says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

This is a myth. Actually, the development of the IC's used in the
Apollo computers (CSM and LEM) were "driven" by ICBM development,
specifically the Minuteman missile program. Apollo was one of the first
non-military applications using that technology, but that technology is
absolutely *not* a NASA spin-off.

Wikipedia says:

"Both the Minuteman missile and Apollo program needed lightweight
digital computers for their inertial guidance systems; the Apollo
guidance computer led and motivated the integrated-circuit
technology,[15] while the Minuteman missile forced it into
mass-production"

You might want to suggest an edit.


I suppose I should clarify this a bit.

IC's were not a spin-off of the Apollo program in the sense that they
weren't invented specifically for Apollo. Apollo used an existing chip
design.

Both the Apollo and Minuteman programs did drive demand and prove the
usefulness of IC's in "critical" applications. That said, the demand of
the Minuteman program was *much* higher than that of Apollo (hundreds of
missiles versus a small number of Apollo CM's and LEM's).

http://www.ieeeghn.org/wiki/index.ph...and_the_Space_
Program_and_Missile_Defense

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Feb 7, 12:24*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Feb 6, 11:21*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
Lets look back at some historical facts

Computers were needed for the moon landing since it would be
impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo and the LMs
landing. Real time data downlinks / uplinks wouldnt be good enough.

And yet they did exactly that. *You understand that those vehicles all
had human-operated controls and that they were used, right? *So much
for your "impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo
and the LMs landing" idiocy.

So nasa got mini computers to do the job.....

Wrong.

which led to hand held calculators etc......

Really wrong.

apollo computers had less memory than a dollar store calcualtor
today......

Well, you got that part right.

nasas needs drove all sorts of developments that benefit every person
on earth....

Totally wrong, if you're talking about computers.

apollo with zero computers would of never been possible.

Of course it would.



The LM
couldnt of carried enough people onboard to do all the
computations ........

What computations were those? *All that **** was done on the ground
back on Earth, you ignorant ****.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
*truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson

well both the LM and CM had computers running continious.....

In article 73083c5a-7446-411d-bafb-48257f93d4b5
@fn10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com, says...

well both the LM and CM had computers running continious.....

You need to get a clue and re-read some of the Apollo history, including
what the contingency plans were for computer problems. Take a close
look at the training the astronauts performed for these situations.

If you're going to make baseless assertions like Apollo could never have
been done without on-board computers, you'd better be able to back that
up.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Feb 7, 9:04*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Feb 7, 12:24*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
On Feb 6, 11:21*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
bob haller wrote:
Lets look back at some historical facts

Computers were needed for the moon landing since it would be
impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo and the LMs
landing. Real time data downlinks / uplinks wouldnt be good enough..

And yet they did exactly that. *You understand that those vehicles all
had human-operated controls and that they were used, right? *So much
for your "impossible to have enough humans onboard to control apollo
and the LMs landing" idiocy.

So nasa got mini computers to do the job.....

Wrong.

which led to hand held calculators etc......

Really wrong.

apollo computers had less memory than a dollar store calcualtor
today......

Well, you got that part right.

nasas needs drove all sorts of developments that benefit every person
on earth....

Totally wrong, if you're talking about computers.

apollo with zero computers would of never been possible.

Of course it would.

The LM
couldnt of carried enough people onboard to do all the
computations ........

What computations were those? *All that **** was done on the ground
back on Earth, you ignorant ****.

well both the LM and CM had computers *running continious.....

And when they went tits up humans flew the things. *Which part of that
is it that is escaping you?

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
*territory."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --G. Behn

at the time it was reported computers were needed for operations, and
that overloaded computer caused problems on the first landing.....

news reports stated no landing would be attempted without working
computers, but there were back up plans to get them home, in case of a
coputer failure