Backward Spiral Galaxies???

On Jul 26, 9:33 pm, "Painius" wrote:
"Timberwoof" wrote...

in ...



In article ,
"Hagar" wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
...
On Jul 26, 6:14 am, (G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:

This begs the question Do 99% of galaxies spin in the same direction?
Do astronomers use collision to change a galaxy spin direction? I
know the direction of Adronoma spin,but its close. Can we detect the
Doppler shift of galaxies that are say half a billion LY away?
Bert

Galaxies do not spin in any predominant direction. If they did, it
would be good evidence that the universe is rotatiing, but they don't.

Double-A

Every picture of any Galaxy I have ever seen, displays a clockwise
rotation.

Look again
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=...fe=off&q=galax...
start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20

http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/123...alaxiesHST.jpg

Of course, all the views were from the top, which would indicate that
there
is some sort of Coreolis Effect present in the Universe. The bottom view,
of
course, would be just the opposite.

Taking into consideration that the planets and their Moons rotate in the
same direction, would indicate that is the rule, rather than the
exception.

No, they don't. Uranus rotates "backwards".

Planet Venus also is in retrograde rotation.

However, these are exceptions to the rule. Uranus
was probably tilted by catastrophic collisions. And
Venus is, IMO, undergoing oscillatory tidal locking
motions that will eventually lock its rotation to its
period of revolution around the Sun.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net

Venus is also somewhat/nearly tidal locked to Earth, showing
ustessentially the exact same face as it passes within 100X the
distance of our Selene/moon every 19 months.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth

oc Viewed flat from top looking down or from bottom looking up I think
the curve of the spiral arms can tell which direction the galaxy is
rotating. Especially at a great distance where blue coming at you or
red going away from you telling spin direction That can get very blury
Bert

The Coriolis force is opposite, Paine.

This only works over LARGE distances, not in the drain of your bathtub
or toilet.

Saul Levy


On Sun, 27 Jul 2008 03:08:28 GMT, "Painius"
wrote:

And i've always wondered precisely why cyclones
in the northern hemisphere rotate opposite to those
in the southern hemisphere.

IOW, why are the weather system mechanics so
different on one side of the world than they are on
the other side?

In article
,
Timberwoof wrote:

In article ,
"Hagar" wrote:

snip

Taking into consideration that the planets and their Moons rotate in the
same direction, would indicate that is the rule, rather than the exception.

No, they don't. Uranus rotates "backwards".

More like "sideways" or "crosswise"; its axis is much more nearly
parallel to the plane of its orbit than perpendicular, with an
inclination of 98°. It's pretty obviously anomalous, anyway, in this
respect.

--
Odysseus

"BradGuth" wrote in message...
...
On Jul 26, 9:33 pm, "Painius" wrote:
"Timberwoof" wrote...
in
...
In article ,
"Hagar" wrote:
"Double-A" wrote in message
...
On Jul 26, 6:14 am, (G=EMC^2 Glazier)
wrote:

This begs the question Do 99% of galaxies spin in the same
direction?
Do astronomers use collision to change a galaxy spin direction? I
know the direction of Adronoma spin,but its close. Can we detect
the
Doppler shift of galaxies that are say half a billion LY away?
Bert

Galaxies do not spin in any predominant direction. If they did, it
would be good evidence that the universe is rotatiing, but they
don't.

Double-A

Every picture of any Galaxy I have ever seen, displays a clockwise
rotation.

Look again
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=...fe=off&q=galax...
start=20&sa=N&ndsp=20

http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/123...alaxiesHST.jpg

Of course, all the views were from the top, which would indicate that
there
is some sort of Coreolis Effect present in the Universe. The bottom
view,
of
course, would be just the opposite.

Taking into consideration that the planets and their Moons rotate in
the
same direction, would indicate that is the rule, rather than the
exception.

No, they don't. Uranus rotates "backwards".

Planet Venus also is in retrograde rotation.

However, these are exceptions to the rule. Uranus
was probably tilted by catastrophic collisions. And
Venus is, IMO, undergoing oscillatory tidal locking
motions that will eventually lock its rotation to its
period of revolution around the Sun.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net

Venus is also somewhat/nearly tidal locked to Earth, showing
ustessentially the exact same face as it passes within 100X the
distance of our Selene/moon every 19 months.

- Brad Guth Brad_Guth Brad.Guth BradGuth


Yes, i've read where astronomers think this might be so.
But i think they're wrong. I think Venus just *appears* to
be tidal locked to Earth in what you have to admit is a very
strange way. Instead, as i said above, it seems to me that
Venus' retrograde rotation is simply a result of its slow but
steady oscillating process of tidal locking to the Sun. So
the present appearance of the strange kind of Earth/Venus
tidal lock will gradually disappear.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net

"Odysseus" wrote in message...
news
In article
,
Timberwoof wrote:
In article ,
"Hagar" wrote:

snip

Taking into consideration that the planets and their Moons rotate in
the
same direction, would indicate that is the rule, rather than the
exception.

No, they don't. Uranus rotates "backwards".

More like "sideways" or "crosswise"; its axis is much more nearly
parallel to the plane of its orbit than perpendicular, with an
inclination of 98°. It's pretty obviously anomalous, anyway, in this
respect.

--
Odysseus

I read recently that due to the odd axial tilt of Uranus, its
rings can sometimes look like a target in a telescope.

During 2007-8 however, Uranus' rings are seen pretty
much edge-on from Earth.

Since 98° 90°, if we had to choose between "forward"
and "backward", prograde or retrograde, wouldn't we
have to say that the planet, Uranus, shows a retrograde
rotation? Or is that not the norm?

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net

In article
,
"Painius" wrote:

snip

And i've always wondered precisely why cyclones
in the northern hemisphere rotate opposite to those
in the southern hemisphere.

IOW, why are the weather system mechanics so
different on one side of the world than they are on
the other side?

Coriolis forces. Picture a low-pressure system in the Northern
Hemisphere, 'sucking' air inward from all directions. Now consider an
airmass being drawn in from the north. At the high latitude where it
started, the Earth's rotation was carrying it eastward comparatively
slowly; as its latitude decreases it begins to 'fall behind' to the west
of the low. Conversely, an airmass coming from the faster-moving
equatorial regions will approach the low with excess eastward momentum
and 'overshoot'. Together these tendencies ensure that any large-scale
circulation about a low will rotate counterclockwise.

In the Southern Hemisphere, it's the airmasses approaching a low from
the north that overshoot eastward, and those from the south that fall
behind westward, creating a clockwise circulation. Then again, an
airmass being pushed northward from a Northern-Hemisphere centre of high
pressure deviates to the east, while one that's pushed southward drifts
to the west, also giving rise to a clockwise circulation.

Hence the rule for passing a pipe (in the Northern Hemisphere): "The
circulation around a high is always clockwise."

--
Odysseus

In article ,
(G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:

oc Viewed flat from top looking down or from bottom looking up I think
the curve of the spiral arms can tell which direction the galaxy is
rotating.

This much is true

Especially at a great distance where blue coming at you or
red going away from you telling spin direction

This much does not. I think you do not understand Doppler shift and how
it affects the light from stars.

That can get very blury
Bert

--
Timberwoof me at timberwoof dot com http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

In article ,
Odysseus wrote:

In article
,
"Painius" wrote:

snip

And i've always wondered precisely why cyclones
in the northern hemisphere rotate opposite to those
in the southern hemisphere.

IOW, why are the weather system mechanics so
different on one side of the world than they are on
the other side?

Coriolis forces. Picture a low-pressure system in the Northern
Hemisphere, 'sucking' air inward from all directions. Now consider an
airmass being drawn in from the north. At the high latitude where it
started, the Earth's rotation was carrying it eastward comparatively
slowly; as its latitude decreases it begins to 'fall behind' to the west
of the low. Conversely, an airmass coming from the faster-moving
equatorial regions will approach the low with excess eastward momentum
and 'overshoot'. Together these tendencies ensure that any large-scale
circulation about a low will rotate counterclockwise.

In the Southern Hemisphere, it's the airmasses approaching a low from
the north that overshoot eastward, and those from the south that fall
behind westward, creating a clockwise circulation. Then again, an
airmass being pushed northward from a Northern-Hemisphere centre of high
pressure deviates to the east, while one that's pushed southward drifts
to the west, also giving rise to a clockwise circulation.

Hence the rule for passing a pipe (in the Northern Hemisphere): "The
circulation around a high is always clockwise."

IOW, the weather system mechanics are the same on both sides of the
world ... once you include the rotation of the Earth in the model.

--
Timberwoof me at timberwoof dot com http://www.timberwoof.com
"When you post sewage, don't blame others for
emptying chamber pots in your direction." ‹Chris L.

"Timberwoof" wrote...
in message
...
In article ,
(G=EMC^2 Glazier) wrote:

oc Viewed flat from top looking down or from bottom looking up I think
the curve of the spiral arms can tell which direction the galaxy is
rotating.

This much is true

Especially at a great distance where blue coming at you or
red going away from you telling spin direction

This much does not. I think you do not understand Doppler shift and how
it affects the light from stars.

The Doppler effect applies to more than just the light
from stars, TW. It's also used to study gas clouds in
other galaxies, such as Andromeda...

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0716224756.htm

"This observing method, called 'on the fly', was
especially developed for the M31 project; it is now
standard practice, not only at the Pico Veleta radio
telescope but also at other telescopes observing at
millimeter wavelengths. . . .

"The exact position of the CO line in the spectrum
gives us information about the velocity of the cold
gas. If the gas is moving towards us, then the line
is shifted to shorter wavelengths (BLUE). When the
source moves away from us, then we see a shift to
longer wavelengths (RED). . . .

"In astronomy the Doppler effect allows the motions
of gas clouds to be studied; even clouds with
different velocities seen in the same line of sight can
be distinguished."

This type of study can and does give the true rotation
direction of Andromeda, as Bert said above.

And as he also said, and you agreed with, it's the fact
that the side of Andromeda that we can see is the
"North" side, and the curve of the spiral arms, that is
the primary reason for knowing that Andromeda is
rotating counter-clockwise from our perspective. The
gas-spectrum study supported this conclusion.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Indelibly yours,
Paine Ellsworth

P.S.: Thank YOU for reading!

P.P.S.: http://painellsworth.net