Earth overtaking Mars at our closest point

On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 1:31:55 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

All things being equal, an observer on Mars would see the Earth transit the central Sun at the closest point in our mutual orbits just as Venus and Mercury are seen to do so at our closest point to them -

An observer on Mars would also see the entire surface of the moon over the course of about an Earth month, which rotates as it orbits the Earth...

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 9:16:04 PM UTC+1, palsing wrote:
On Saturday, May 28, 2016 at 1:31:55 AM UTC-7, oriel36 wrote:

All things being equal, an observer on Mars would see the Earth transit the central Sun at the closest point in our mutual orbits just as Venus and Mercury are seen to do so at our closest point to them -

An observer on Mars would also see the entire surface of the moon over the course of about an Earth month, which rotates as it orbits the Earth...

The Earth would show a closed loop just as Venus and Mercury do to an observer on Mars whereas Jupiter,Saturn and the rest of the outer planets will show open-ended loops to the same future observer -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap141028.html

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

Never have so many behaved in a thoroughly despicable way towards new and old astronomical insights but they would far take being called despicable than change to the wondrous spectacle which divides the inner planets from the outer planets and even when Earth can now be looked on as an inner planet seen from the surface of Mars.

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 10:05:51 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

This is a lovely drawing of what a planet 500,000 km in diameter orbiting the Sun at 7 million km would look like from a stationary spaceship hovering above the ecliptic looking down at an angle of 30-40 degrees.

Meanwhile, here is what the retrograde motion of Venus actually looks like from Earth:
https://youtu.be/IYYwNvjr7Lg

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 7:38:47 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 10:05:51 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

This is a lovely drawing of what a planet 500,000 km in diameter orbiting the Sun at 7 million km would look like from a stationary spaceship hovering above the ecliptic looking down at an angle of 30-40 degrees.


This is a magnification exercise at its finest as it shows the closed loop of Venus over a period of 18 months from July 2010 to January 2012. The Sun will always be at the center of these closed loops whereas it will always be absent from the loops of the outer planets generated by the relative speeds of the faster moving Earth and the slower moving Mars,Jupiter, Saturn and the rest of those planets.


Meanwhile, here is what the retrograde motion of Venus actually looks like from Earth:
https://youtu.be/IYYwNvjr7Lg

There is only one animation out there showing Venus (and Mercury) 'turning the corner' ,so to speak, as it reaches its widest point in its annual circuit seen from a slower moving Earth before turning back in and eventually passes between Earth and the central Sun in going from a twilight appearance to a dawn appearance -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

Almost unconsciously the wider community have adopted the racetrack and roundabout analogies which is to be expected given the availability of imaging, time lapse and graphics to express how we see the solar system from a moving Earth whether objects move quicker or slower than we do.

There is a lot of fraud out there passing itself off as astronomy but here is a safe haven where people can actually look at Mars tonight and put its position and motion in context to that of a moving Earth with a central Sun taken for granted.

On Monday, 30 May 2016 20:10:17 UTC+2, oriel36 wrote:
On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 7:00:45 PM UTC+1, Chris.B wrote:
On Monday, 30 May 2016 18:56:02 UTC+2, 1461 wrote:
Is everyone straight... ?


Wacko-doodle dooo!
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Wacko-doodle-dooo!
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Wacko-doodle-dooo!
Wacko-doodle dooo!
Wacko-doodle-dooo!
Wacko-doodle dooo!
Wacko-doodle-dooo!

You are the guy who wrote to me privately inquiring about the dummy who decided to focus his nonsense on Starlord and now look at you, no better or no worse that an unfortunate screaming head.

And you are the deranged, self-confessed, hypocritical, pseudo-religious, lying pedant who published that very same, private email. Give my regards to the head psychiatrist, warder, bishop or whomever has responsibility for public safety where you are concerned. It can't be easy for them having to deal with such damaged goods decade after decade.

About 500 years ago ,give or take a few years, a man proposed that the observed motions of the other planets could be explained by the motion of the Earth and all planets around a stationary Sun -

"What appears in the planets as [the alternation of] retrograde and direct motion is due, not to their motion, but to the earth's. The motion of the earth alone, therefore, suffices [to explain] so many apparent irregularities in the heaven." Copernicus , Commentariolus

The beautiful open-ended loops of the outer planets can still be seen and appreciated for what they are in terms of relative speeds and orbital positions -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100613.html


The inner planets have closed loops with the Sun at the center so that their observed retrogrades are due primarily to their own motions seen from a slower moving Earth -

http://www.popastro.com/images/plane...ary%202012.jpg

At least most here have enough of a man within themselves to know that they are seeing something entirely new although wonderfully familiar and even the one objection using animation is acceptable. Rather than an 'S' shape, the complete ensemble of observations of Venus including its phases represents a closed loop as the racetrack analogy demands we see a complete circuit of the inner planets as a closed loop and not as an 'S' shape -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap050107.html

This is the first time retrogrades have been revisited since the time of Copernicus so despite the muck thrown in my direction, the arguments still stand and as a point of departure for a lot of productive work.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 5:46:38 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

At least most here have enough of a man within themselves to know that they are seeing something entirely new

I really don't see how the work of Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo can be considered new, and they knew far, far more about retrogrades than you ever will.

Last time I paid attention, you were claiming that Venus was in retrograde for half its orbit!

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 6:06:21 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 5:46:38 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

At least most here have enough of a man within themselves to know that they are seeing something entirely new

I really don't see how the work of Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo can be considered new, and they knew far, far more about retrogrades than you ever will.

Last time I paid attention, you were claiming that Venus was in retrograde for half its orbit!

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the graphics showing Mercury and Venus going retrograde as they 'turn the corner' and move from left to right covering half an orbit and going from an evening to morning appearance half way through that orbit -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFrE7hWj0A

I honor the original heliocentric astronomers even though they were chained to a different type of framework inherited from the Greeks.The real bonus in that animation is that the apparent motion of ElNath,Castor and Pollux is solely due to the orbital motion of the Earth.

Don't know why you post a meaningless YouTube animation when a comprehensive view of a complete circuit of Venus is already available as the closed loop that it accomplishes . Kids will love it -

http://astronomer.wpengine.netdna-cd...s_of_venus.jpg


Innovative people will also love it as a 21st century accomplishment.

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 11:06:21 AM UTC-6, wrote:

Last time I paid attention, you were claiming that Venus was in retrograde for
half its orbit!

Isn't that close to the truth, even if not exactly the case?

....ah, no, because the Earth is not all that far from Venus. It would be
retrograde almost half the time as seen from, say, Jupiter, but not Earth.

John Savard

On Tuesday, May 31, 2016 at 8:11:52 PM UTC+1, oriel36 wrote:

Obviously you haven't been paying attention to the graphics showing Mercury and Venus going retrograde as they 'turn the corner' and move from left to right covering half an orbit

Venus is in (apparent) retrograde motion for only 41 days in its entire synodic period, nowhere near half an orbit.

Never mind Copernicus, Ptolemy knew far more about retrogrades than you do; he knew to set the epicycle of Venus to 584 days.