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Anyone suffering from contrails?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 30th 07, 09:03 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Andrew Smallshaw
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Posts: 206
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

I was out this early this morning observing Jupiter - while it does
rise at about midnight it's too low in the sky to make it a late
night target at the moment. As it started to come light I took my
eye away from the EP and just looked at it naked eye.

I noticed the whole general area was littered with three roughly
parallel contrails that snaked right across the sky - they may
well have been responsible for some periods of particularly poor
seeing I had experienced. I looked around the sky and counted at
least 12 contrails of varying size scattered about.

I recall reading an article a while back saying that telescopes
may become useless in future decades because of them [1] but I
didn't believe it at the time. Now I'm starting to wonder. Since
the nearest major airport is 40 miles away I would imagine I'm in
far from the worst place in this regard. What is everyone else's
experience? Could this really turn into a new problem on a similar
scale to light pollution?

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4755996.stm

--
Andrew Smallshaw

  #2  
Old May 1st 07, 06:19 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:03:37 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Smallshaw
wrote:

I recall reading an article a while back saying that telescopes
may become useless in future decades because of them [1] but I
didn't believe it at the time. Now I'm starting to wonder. Since
the nearest major airport is 40 miles away I would imagine I'm in
far from the worst place in this regard. What is everyone else's
experience? Could this really turn into a new problem on a similar
scale to light pollution?


I've lost images due to contrails, mostly because a passing contrail
resulted in loss of the guide star. Several times each year I see
conditions that cause long lasting contrails to develop into a kind of
high, thin overcast that really damages transparency. I'm not located in
a high traffic area.

Hard to know how to compare this with light pollution, but it's a
potential problem for sure. The more sophisticated climate models are
including the effects of contrails as well.

_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com
  #3  
Old May 1st 07, 06:25 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Anthony Ayiomamitis
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Posts: 377
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 20:03:37 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Smallshaw
wrote:

I've lost images due to contrails, mostly because a passing contrail
resulted in loss of the guide star.


Me too Chris.

Several times each year I see
conditions that cause long lasting contrails to develop into a kind of
high, thin overcast that really damages transparency. I'm not located in
a high traffic area.


There is an interesting article on this particular issue in the latest
issue of Astronomy Now (Britain). It apparently impacts both the Hubble
and ISS as well.

Anthony.
  #4  
Old May 1st 07, 07:25 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Shawn[_5_]
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Posts: 70
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

Andrew Smallshaw wrote:
I was out this early this morning observing Jupiter - while it does
rise at about midnight it's too low in the sky to make it a late
night target at the moment. As it started to come light I took my
eye away from the EP and just looked at it naked eye.

I noticed the whole general area was littered with three roughly
parallel contrails that snaked right across the sky - they may
well have been responsible for some periods of particularly poor
seeing I had experienced. I looked around the sky and counted at
least 12 contrails of varying size scattered about.

I recall reading an article a while back saying that telescopes
may become useless in future decades because of them [1] but I
didn't believe it at the time. Now I'm starting to wonder. Since
the nearest major airport is 40 miles away I would imagine I'm in
far from the worst place in this regard. What is everyone else's
experience? Could this really turn into a new problem on a similar
scale to light pollution?


I've read those projections as well. Given the rise in fuel costs
(mostly due to increased Chinese and Indian demand), I find it difficult
to believe air travel will remain as popular in North America and Europe
over the next decade or so.


Shawn
  #5  
Old May 1st 07, 07:49 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Starlord
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Posts: 1,908
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

Well I live north of L.A.Calif.USA and the only time I see any night time
contrails it during a full moon and as Edwards AFB is busy in daytime I see
all kinds of trails and odd looking crafts from there, but not at night. and
Edwards is only 15 miles from me (the board is only 1 mile the flightline is
15 miles).


--

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"Andrew Smallshaw" wrote in message
...
I was out this early this morning observing Jupiter - while it does
rise at about midnight it's too low in the sky to make it a late
night target at the moment. As it started to come light I took my
eye away from the EP and just looked at it naked eye.

I noticed the whole general area was littered with three roughly
parallel contrails that snaked right across the sky - they may
well have been responsible for some periods of particularly poor
seeing I had experienced. I looked around the sky and counted at
least 12 contrails of varying size scattered about.

I recall reading an article a while back saying that telescopes
may become useless in future decades because of them [1] but I
didn't believe it at the time. Now I'm starting to wonder. Since
the nearest major airport is 40 miles away I would imagine I'm in
far from the worst place in this regard. What is everyone else's
experience? Could this really turn into a new problem on a similar
scale to light pollution?

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4755996.stm

--
Andrew Smallshaw



  #6  
Old May 1st 07, 09:07 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
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Posts: 1,989
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

Andrew Smallshaw wrote:

I live near Baltimore-Washington International (BWI) Airport, but
that's not my problem. The problem is military jets -- combat air
patrols -- guarding Mid-Atlantic region, especially Washington DC, I
suppose, against another 9/11 event. The problem frequently occurs very
late in the afternoon and it seems that the air is very calm at the
altitude at which they are flying. The contrails dissipate ever so
slowly and by the time darkness comes and I am ready to observe they
have dissolved into a think haze before what might have been a very
good sky.

Davoud

--
usenet *at* davidillig dawt com
  #7  
Old May 1st 07, 10:33 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Andrew Smallshaw
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Posts: 206
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

On 2007-05-01, Davoud wrote:
Andrew Smallshaw wrote:

I live near Baltimore-Washington International (BWI) Airport, but
that's not my problem. The problem is military jets -- combat air
patrols -- guarding Mid-Atlantic region, especially Washington DC, I
suppose, against another 9/11 event. The problem frequently occurs very
late in the afternoon and it seems that the air is very calm at the
altitude at which they are flying. The contrails dissipate ever so
slowly and by the time darkness comes and I am ready to observe they
have dissolved into a think haze before what might have been a very
good sky.


Oddly enough the military jets don't cause a problem for me.
There's plenty of them about (it only occurred to me after I posted
that my home town is one of Britain's principal centres for military
aircraft production) but they rarely stream contrails - I think
that may be due to the fact that they're never at any significant
altitude. It's the civilian airliners that cause the problem.

--
Andrew Smallshaw

  #8  
Old May 1st 07, 11:44 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
canopus56[_1_]
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Posts: 556
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

On Apr 30, 2:03 pm, Andrew Smallshaw wrote:
snip
I recall reading an article a while back saying that telescopes
may become useless in future decades because of them
[contrails from airplanes] but I
didn't believe it at the time. Now I'm starting to wonder. . . .
What is everyone else's experience?


Here's a couple of links that may be of interest.

APOD 10/13/2004 - Southeast U.S. contrails image
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap041013.html

NASA Contrail Project with sat images
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/imagery.html

The worst contrail satellite image I ever saw (I lost the link) was of
the Pacific Northwest and Seattle area. The west half of Washington
state was completely covered by tracks.

In the Intermountain West, I usually work around individual contrails,
and just pick other targets till they pass. I have seen a few days a
year where there are so many that they then disperse and create a high-
altitude haze that increases extinction.

Canopus56


  #9  
Old May 2nd 07, 12:31 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
gubbenimanen
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Posts: 11
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

Some people swear they didn't see those kind of long contrails before
and introduced the chemtrail theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail
.. These contrails help against global warming by reflecting the sun
light. Global dimming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming -
oil industry receipt against global warming?

Roger Persson

  #10  
Old May 2nd 07, 01:34 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Starlord
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Posts: 1,908
Default Anyone suffering from contrails?

In the USA the boing company is in a nothwesten state, and the one don south
of me is closing shop and all test fights are done on either a special test
flight (next to or closby ) runway or if a mil craft it's all done on
Edwards like I've already seen the new jet that will replace the F117. It is
trucked to or flown to Edwards Air Force Base whihc is where they test all
kinds of crafs for a lot of them it's there first full flight too.
The airforce has always had a strong air-contrail for any flights but
demo's and props too.
So I would figure the BAF(?) would use the the same fuels.

--


"Andrew Smallshaw" wrote in message
...

Oddly enough the military jets don't cause a problem for me.
There's plenty of them about (it only occurred to me after I posted
that my home town is one of Britain's principal centres for military
aircraft production) but they rarely stream contrails - I think
that may be due to the fact that they're never at any significant
altitude. It's the civilian airliners that cause the problem.

--
Andrew Smallshaw



 




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